Blind Spot Monitoring System

[Nomad33fw]

[MENTION=87499]Crawlerdog[/MENTION] in all seriousness there is a reason that I turned the subject away to silly mirrors when I saw the OP's post and I'm quite sure [MENTION=65614]Antman[/MENTION] and [MENTION=66300]Intruder[/MENTION] know too.



I'm not an electrical systems engineer or a safety engineer. I do recognize serious potential major league problems with the OP's premise of using our parking sensors as blind spot monitors though:

1. I'm "fairly competent with electronics." He only has a few posts so we don't know if he is being facetious or he is really a Sheldon Cooper of physics and electronics.

2. Using a simple parking sonar sensor designed for a few miles per hour and expecting it to be a proximity electromagnetic radar signal designed to work at 80 miles per hour. Those are very different sensors that have strengths and weaknesses depending on operation. Sort of like the difference between Statics and Dynamics in my world.



When I first read his post I thought of this example:

He wires up a few lights to his parking sensors. He tests it out driving down the subdivision for 20 minutes or so and determines it works pretty good. He then takes it out on a highway and it still seems it works OK. He brings it home, explains the mod to his wife and goes inside for a beer. His wife then takes the baby in the 4Runner out to a mall 20 minutes away on the interstate. While driving at 75 mph she notices the lights do just fine and is comfortable. She then goes to pass a truck and seeing no light, she goes into the left lane, clipping a car that was going to pass her and spinning through the median... well you get my drift.



I don't know if using a sonar based sensor at speed around lots of other moving objects is fine or not. I CAN say though that if this parking sensor, it's location on the vehicle and it's ability to determine if there is an object in the 4Runner's blind spot at speed was good enough for the OEM engineers to convert into a blind spot monitor by just adding a few lights then they would have did so already.



This is by far one of the worst ideas for a mod I have read in this forum since I have joined. It has the very real potential to cause death and destruction at the worst and at the least cause major property damage.

The problem is maybe the OP is a brilliant physicist and has completed the 1000's of hours of testing and research required to do this safely and just need some help with wiring. Probably not, but I really don't know.



I know that when an idea gets into someone's head they will do it no matter what. I should have made this post right after I read his original idea but I hoped by posting about mirrors and such he would get the point that his idea could go wrong on so many different levels and just forget about it.



So, [MENTION=98714]Nomad33fw[/MENTION] if you are reading this, unless you are AN EXPERT IN SENSOR DESIGN AS IT RELATES TO SPATIAL LOCATIONS, please just add floor mats, wheels or side steps. Or a bug shield or vent visors. Thanks for reading.

I'm on my phone so please don't excuse the brevity as rudeness.

1. All though only a few posts here, this is not my first forum, just my first 4Runner. I built the first bait cars used in Florida, and most around the country and now based in part on my work. For my fellow NATIA members FM Don't let the smoke out. So yes, I can solder a circuit board and wire with the best of them. I'm just old enough to know not to try and reinvent the wheel.

2. The speeds of "80 mph" you mention are irrelevant. A car riding in your blind spot is effectively doing 0 mph. No OEM BSM system accounts for a car doing Mach 1 passing you. The manufacturers still tell you to be aware of your surroundings at all times etc. The OEM ones also do not use radar, they are using the same sensors found in your park assist. Radar is used in some active cruise control systems. I'm not attempting that. The difference is the software and activation. For example the 450GL systems sensors donor activate in R, they are speed sedative and always on, front, rear, and sides. There are also aftermarket companies that you can buy systems from.

So my questions stand;

Does anyone know the location of the backup sensor module?

Does anyone have a wiring diagram?

Does anyone know the part number to the backup sensor module? Or where I can find such a thing?

I will go aftermarket if I have to, but would rather play.

 

[badhabits]

I'm on my phone so please don't excuse the brevity as rudeness.
The OEM ones also do not use radar, they are using the same sensors found in your park assist. Radar is used in some active cruise control systems.

Are you talking about the blind spot sensors or the backup sensors, I ask this because the article that I referenced earlier has this to say about blind spot sensors.

A typical blind spot monitoring system uses some kind of electronic detection device(s) mounted on the sides of the car (often in the vicinity of the external rear view mirrors or near the rear bumpers) that sends out either electronic electromagnetic waves (usually in the radar wavelengths) or takes computer-processed images with a digital camera and analyzes them.

Just Asking

 

[1engineer]

I'm on my phone so please don't excuse the brevity as rudeness.

1. All though only a few posts here, this is not my first forum, just my first 4Runner. I built the first bait cars used in Florida, and most around the country and now based in part on my work. For my fellow NATIA members FM Don't let the smoke out. So yes, I can solder a circuit board and wire with the best of them. I'm just old enough to know not to try and reinvent the wheel.

2. The speeds of "80 mph" you mention are irrelevant. A car riding in your blind spot is effectively doing 0 mph. No OEM BSM system accounts for a car doing Mach 1 passing you. The manufacturers still tell you to be aware of your surroundings at all times etc. The OEM ones also do not use radar, they are using the same sensors found in your park assist. Radar is used in some active cruise control systems. I'm not attempting that. The difference is the software and activation. For example the 450GL systems sensors donor activate in R, they are speed sedative and always on, front, rear, and sides. There are also aftermarket companies that you can buy systems from.

So my questions stand;

Does anyone know the location of the backup sensor module?

Does anyone have a wiring diagram?

Does anyone know the part number to the backup sensor module? Or where I can find such a thing?

I will go aftermarket if I have to, but would rather play.

I'm glad you know your way around a forum. Most forums have a search function and a FAQ page. If you will go here http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/92594-modifications-write-ups-quick-links-faqs.html you will find the full FSM for a 2010 Toyota 4Runner as the 6th link I believe. Some things have changed but no core electronics that I am aware.

I have been here for about three years and if your search did not yield anything before 2011 I have not read a thread that would answer any of your questions. I do not doubt your proficiency in electrical circuitry. I do have my doubts that you have the expertise to design, manufacture and especially test a blind spot monitoring system that would pass SAE and NHSTA standards for application though.

Look, I have no argument with you. I'm sure you are a good guy and probably an expert in something electronic which is fine. My issue is the 100's of average guys who come here every day that are not even members and run across threads with these type of mods and say "Hmmm, that would be cool to do for my 4X4!" "Bubba, go get me a torch!" As you probably know this would turn out bad. Doing what I do for a living I know how quickly a good intention can really hurt someone.

Anyway, I gave you a link to the full parts manual with all the electrical schematics and part number listings for the whole truck. I would double check the difference between sonar sensors for back up monitors and electromagnetic sensors for blind spot monitors though.

 

[STX4Runner]

OP, why are so gung ho to hack into your factory wiring and possibly introduce all sorts of hellacious gremlins into your vehicle? Also, if you do this mod will you trust it 100% and not still check you blind spot manually? I know I wouldn't even if I had factory ones. Can the aftermarket systems, or even OEMs reliably detect motorcycles or very low slung sports cars every time? If not and you still have to turn your head and use your mirror, what's the point of this mod? Not trying to be rude at all, just wondering.

 

[Hawaiian4runner]

OP, why are so gung ho to hack into your factory wiring and possibly introduce all sorts of hellacious gremlins into your vehicle? Also, if you do this mod will you trust it 100% and not still check you blind spot manually? I know I wouldn't even if I had factory ones. Can the aftermarket systems, or even OEMs reliably detect motorcycles or very low slung sports cars every time? If not and you still have to turn your head and use your mirror, what's the point of this mod? Not trying to be rude at all, just wondering.

Not worth wondering or even dealing with OP. He's a know it all. Go for it!

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

Just out of curiosity, any people with law experience in here know what kind of liability issues you could face with with a "custom" blind spot monitoring system? Seems like it could be an issue if it were to not work properly.

 

[jangoforhire]

Just go aftermarket. There's no benefit whatsoever to extending the factory sensors into the mirrors (other then the sense of accomplishment in figuring it out). And even if you did figure it out, I wouldn't trust something that I knew was meant to work somewhere else - especially with something as crucial as blind spot monitoring.


If you have a rifle and want it to perform like a shotgun. Don't modify and shove 200 bb's down the barrel and expect it to act like a shotgun. Just go buy a freaking shotgun.

 

[Intruder]

Just out of curiosity, any people with law experience in here know what kind of liability issues you could face with with a "custom" blind spot monitoring system? Seems like it could be an issue if it were to not work properly.

Our manual has this warning about the rear view camera:

Observe the following precautions to avoid an accident that could result in death or serious injuries:
l Never depend solely on the monitor system when reversing.
l Always check visually and with the mirrors to confirm your intended path is clear.
l Use your own eyes to confirm the vehicle’s surroundings, as the displayed image may become faint or dark, and moving images will be distorted, or not entirely visible when the outside temperature is low. When backing up, be sure to check behind and all around the vehicle visually and with the mirrors before proceeding.

My bet is that vehicles with blind spot monitoring have similar warnings in the owner's manual. So basically if you rely only on this system and hit someone you're liable in the same way as if you changed lanes without looking.

 

[Nomad33fw]

Seems to be some people here with very little reading comprehension, or just like post to add to their count. If you're offended then yes probably talking about you.

 

[Nomad33fw]

Our manual has this warning about the rear view camera:







My bet is that vehicles with blind spot monitoring have similar warnings in the owner's manual. So basically if you rely only on this system and hit someone you're liable in the same way as if you changed lanes without looking.

Yes, they do. In my 450 GL they were printed all over the owners manual and if I remember right the sun visor. Having driven a vehicle with such a system though it is something I miss, even though I still physically checked every time I made a lane change. The MB system simply used the sensors on the rear quarter panel/bumper, nothing in the mirrors or cameras etc.

 

[Nomad33fw]

Just out of curiosity, any people with law experience in here know what kind of liability issues you could face with with a "custom" blind spot monitoring system? Seems like it could be an issue if it were to not work properly.

I am not trying to sell such a system, this is for me. As far as legalities this is something I do know about, there is nothing in Fl law that would apply or prevent this. However most vehicle lifts here are actually illegal, but this is very rarely enforced.

Been in law enforcement for 18+ years. Each state is different though

 

[Rubberdown]

Hey boss,
I don't know where you figured out that the blind spot monitoring systems don't use radar, but that's not correct. They use K band radar. Very low power. I know this because my v1 radar detector along with everyone else's goes off next to every car that has blind spot monitoring. It's a real pain in the butt. I think I'm about to get busted and slow down for no reason. I have yet to experience a car using active cruise control that gave me a warning on my radar detector but that's neither here nor there. I would say the effort and cost of such a thing would probably be prohibitive and you are better off going back to a car which has this as OEM.

Good luck to you whichever way you go.

Ryan

 

[Nomad33fw]

Your k band hits are probably from radar detectors in the cars you're passing, not any type of radar on a car. The other device that uses K band is auto door openers.

PS from someone that used to have a valentine1 in my 350Z, it wasn't until I got a Stalker II that I really realized detectors were pretty much useless, the delay even at close range is about a half a second and at any distance it seemed to get worse. The best thing I've seen so far is the Waze app, that actually works unless you're the first poor sap to pass a gun. That said, haven't written a speeding ticket outside of a school zone or neighborhood in years.

 

[pacho]

I bought a $12 clip-on rear view panoramic mirror longer than the OEM center mirror, and it lets me see now through all the rear windows. my only beef with this mirror so far is that its totally rectangular with no curved edges unlike the oem so it not exactly a pretty add-on. the clip-ons itself are strong so you need some strength so you can adjust it to clamp on the oem mirror.

for the side mirrors, I adjusted it by going in the middle lane of a 3 lane road and made sure the left side mirror can see the left-most lane and for the right-side mirror to see the right most lane. is that how its supposed to be ?

not sure if this helps - haven't tried them - might be overkill
Towing Mirrors - Walmart.com

 

[Eagle]

Just out of curiosity, any people with law experience in here know what kind of liability issues you could face with with a "custom" blind spot monitoring system? Seems like it could be an issue if it were to not work properly.

I am not trying to sell such a system, this is for me. As far as legalities this is something I do know about, there is nothing in Fl law that would apply or prevent this.

Nomad33fw - You've confused legality with liability. Those are vastly different, which you should know as a LEO.

FrontRange4Runner - Yes, there could be liability concerns, although I doubt there is anything definitively on point. Imagine Nomad33fw does the mod and someone else is driving the 4runner and relying on that modified system. If that system were to fail in any way and cause in an accident, then Nomad33fw could have some (shared) liability for that accident. The likelihood of that is really unknown for a lot of reasons, but the potential for liability does exist.

 

[1engineer]

Nomad33fw - You've confused legality with liability. Those are vastly different, which you should know as a LEO.

FrontRange4Runner - Yes, there could be liability concerns, although I doubt there is anything definitively on point. Imagine Nomad33fw does the mod and someone else is driving the 4runner and relying on that modified system. If that system were to fail in any way and cause in an accident, then Nomad33fw could have some (shared) liability for that accident. The likelihood of that is really unknown for a lot of reasons, but the potential for liability does exist.

The worse thing though is he does this mod, gets into a crash and someone is injured or killed. That's the difference between "playing" as he so aptly put it in a previous post and doing engineering for a profession.

 

[amarpawar]

Y cant people just answer the OPs question. Why the smart comments. Yes you may fine with the low tech option. La de da ....most modern cars have this feature so what if you guys don't approve. If you don't have a answer, recommendation- move on ��

 

[patkelly4370]

I am an OTR truck driver. We have huge blind spots.
When backing, we "get out and look". Despite having large mirrors, that we can move around. And convex mirrors, several of them. We still have large blind spots.
The closest I've seen to what the OP is after was several cameras mounted on the outside of a truck. Five on each side, all different angles. Didn't see the display inside, and it might have actually been for theft prevention.
Vehicles now have lane assist. Side proximity detection can't be too far behind.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[madisonwhinham]

Customize the color of the warning lights or symbols.

Some manufacturers may include options to customize the color of the warning lights or symbols to better suit the needs of color blind drivers. This can help ensure that all drivers, regardless of their color vision, can benefit from the safety features provided by the blind spot monitoring system.

It's worth noting that color blindness can vary widely, and not all color blind individuals experience the same difficulties with color perception. As such, the effectiveness of these customization options may vary depending on the specific needs of the individual driver.