Blown head gasket 3RZ-FE 2.7 L - - Replace engine?

[pendragon]

I took my 1999 2WD 4runner into a local shop to have the head gasket evaluated. I had coolant mixing in the oil, reduced power, occasional white smoke, and misfiring on starting that eventually smoothed out (coolant in a spark plug well being cleared out, I think). The shop called today and said it was definitely a blown head gasket and told me they would call Monday with estimates on doing a HG job vs replacing the engine. The engine is a 1999 3RZ-FE 2.7 L with 232k miles on it. I estimate the 4runner is worth in the neighborhood of $2500-3000, less with the HG blown. I don't see how a replacement engine could be much less than that amount, but I am willing to spend in the neighborhood of $1000-1500 if that gets the truck back on the road in good condition. Much more than that and I think it makes sense to just sell the 4runner for as much as I can get, add a few thousand, and try to find a used 4th gen. I am handy, but a DIY head gasket job seems like more than I can handle right now.

Thoughts?

 

[diverscale]

well are they 100% sure it'S only the gasket? because on those, sometimes it'S the aluminium head that cracks, and not the gasket.

If it is only the gasket that needs to be done, obviously it is worth it if your engine was in good condition. A new engine is sometimes a hit or miss (though, these engines are so though that I would not be too afraid to get a scrapyard one)

As if the head is cracked, there are possibility of buying re manufactured heads but you will be offline for a while until it arrives.

 

[GangsterOfLove]

I had a valve job done on my 3RZ about a year ago at a reputable shop for $1,600.00. I was NOT happy about it at the time but now I'm OK with it - I'll never find a truck I like as much for whatever a broken truck +$1,600 works out to. Labor prices here are likely higher than in your area so YMMV.

At that time we discussed options in case the head turned out to be bad. As it turned out in my case the head was OK, but in your case this may not be so.

Start with considering a replacement engine. Was it using oil before the head gasket let go? If not, the lower end is likely to be fine and the worst case is a new head. It could be just a head gasket. There are trucks on here with 400K miles on the original bottom end, but if yours was using oil a replacement engine may be the way to go. Replacement engines are a crapshoot too - at least you know yours had a bad headgasket - maybe a bad head. Not so with whatever you get as a replacement.

No oil consumption? Maybe just a head gasket. Comparatively cheap. If the head is bad (these engines do have a tendency to crack heads between the valves) there are a couple of options. The first is a fully fitted Chinese head - comes with valves and the whole nine yards. It's a bit of a crapshoot but YotaMasters said they have had generally good luck with them, but there have been a few failures as well. They're (comparatively) reasonably priced.

Maybe a new genuine Toyota head. Big $ and you wonder if that kind of $ is justified on a truck with 230K miles on it. OTOH the original head made 230K miles and 500K miles is not impossible with these engines so there is that. 150K miles for maybe $2500 is not a bad deal - 1.7 cents per mile. You will never get that out of a new truck.

Middle ground. Source another head out of a junkyard. You may have to buy a whole engine to get it but they made millions of these engines and anything is possible. Get it from a place that will guarantee it, have it checked and start from there. Get a valve job while you are at it - by now it could use one.

Another option was never discussed - welding whatever is wrong with the head you have. I had that done on a 22R in my old pickup and it went 100K miles before I sold it. I haven't seen anyone talk about doing that here so maybe it's not done any more.

What's the overall condition of the truck otherwise?

 

[gamefreakgc]

Learn to do your own repairs? Think of it this way, you'll be paying yourself about $800 if you tackle it on your own, could do a lot with $800 extra bucks that's not going to a shop for labor.

 

[pendragon]

The shop didn't seem to think there were any problems beyond the HG, but it did overheat (due to a blown EGR coolant hose), so a warped or cracked head is a possibility in my opinion.

Besides this, the 4runner needs shocks all around and tie rods, which I was planning on doing myself. There is some sort of oil leak on the passenger side, but it isn't losing much at all. Paint on hood is $hit, interior is pretty worn.

I have done stuff like a new exhaust miniheader, EGR valve, radiator, tranny cooler, L ball joints, brakes, but never something as big as a HG. I could probably do one, but no guarantees it wouldn't take 4 times as long or I wouldn't break something in the process, and I do not have the free time at present. Plus, this is a daily driver, and I need it to be available and reliable.

I have about $3000 in my car fund, plus whatever I can sell this for unfixed ($750?), and can scrounge up $3000 more with effort. I found a '03 4runner 4x4 V8 for $6k 4 hours away that I am considering as a replacement. I really just don't want to be in a position of outlaying $1500+ on a HG plus $6-800 on suspension stuff for a $3000 4runner. I love the old girl, but she may have outlived her usefulness.

 

[GangsterOfLove]

Learn to do your own repairs? Think of it this way, you'll be paying yourself about $800 if you tackle it on your own, could do a lot with $800 extra bucks that's not going to a shop for labor.

I did the work myself on the 22R, but that was a lot simpler engine than this 3RZ. OTOH I did not have the internet and a hundred YouTube videos to guide me so there is that. I also did not have this forum - a fantastic resource.

There is only one head on a 3RZ and if I have to I will do the next one myself. I'm sure I can do it - there are guys on here who are replacing entire FRAMES, fer Chrissake! :hail:.

Now to psych myself out so I can change my LBJs.

 

[GangsterOfLove]

I have about $3000 in my car fund, plus whatever I can sell this for unfixed ($750?), and can scrounge up $3000 more with effort. I found a '03 4runner 4x4 V8 for $6k 4 hours away that I am considering as a replacement. I really just don't want to be in a position of outlaying $1500+ on a HG plus $6-800 on suspension stuff for a $3000 4runner. I love the old girl, but she may have outlived her usefulness.

If it's really just a HG then $1500 seems high. Do the valves at the same time maybe, but a HG should be less. Maybe pay to have it torn down and the head checked and go from there.

OTOH, what sort of hidden issues does this '03 V8 hold in store? I've read through the 4th gen section and the V8 scares the hell out of me, as do the electronics.

 

[UnderFire]

Your head is almost definitely cracked as well, that will be another 5-600$ to fix or replace. It's an easy engine to fix if you know what you're doing, but it takes time, that's where it adds up.

 

[GangsterOfLove]

Your profile lists 3 T4Rs. Can you use one of the others for your DD while the work is being done?

 

[pendragon]

Now to psych myself out so I can change my LBJs.

I just did my LBJs. Piece of cake. I bought the front end tool set by Gearwrench and that did the trick. There's a good youtube tutorial by Timmy the Toolman you might want to watch.

If it's really just a HG then $1500 seems high. Do the valves at the same time maybe, but a HG should be less. Maybe pay to have it torn down and the head checked and go from there.

OTOH, what sort of hidden issues does this '03 V8 hold in store? I've read through the 4th gen section and the V8 scares the hell out of me, as do the electronics.

Haven't actually got my estimate yet. I'm just assuming it'll be about that range. Let's would be a lot better. What's so bad about the 03 V8? We just had one given to us and so far I love it. Based on my limited experience with our 03 V8, I wouldn't be opposed to replacing the HG 4runner with another 03.

Your profile lists 3 T4Rs. Can you use one of the others for your DD while the work is being done?

The 99 2wd is the head gasket one.
The 99 4wd was totalled by a coke dealer.
The 03 4wd is the DD for my wife, which we currently share, but sharing is a pain because she goes to work super early and my schedule is very different.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I did the work myself on the 22R, but that was a lot simpler engine than this 3RZ. OTOH I did not have the internet and a hundred YouTube videos to guide me so there is that. I also did not have this forum - a fantastic resource.

There is only one head on a 3RZ and if I have to I will do the next one myself. I'm sure I can do it - there are guys on here who are replacing entire FRAMES, fer Chrissake! :hail:.

Now to psych myself out so I can change my LBJs.

LBJs aren't too bad if you can rent the tools for the tie rods. It was much easier than I thought it would be!

I never owned a 22R, but I did have the V6 3VZ-E. That was the engine I learned on... oh gosh I hated it. The 5VZ-FE is child's play compared to that disaster of an engine lol.

Take the leap of faith OP and dive in! Not like you can break it any more than it is now!

 

[pendragon]

I thought I would update this thread in honor of my dear, departed t4r. I replaced the head about 2.5 yrs ago, and got her up to 265k miles. Then, last weekend, she blew another head gasket and overheated while my wife was driving her.

Shop says another head gasket won't last long, and a used or replacement engine is too much vs. the vehicle's value. So she is going to the Great Parking Lot in the sky.

Time for a new Toyota.

 

[AntleredRuin]

RIP, glad you got some good use out of her these last few years.

But geez. The new head gasket only lasted 30k? Something smells fishy to me.

 

[Kanoe]

You mentioned in both blown HG instances that the truck overheated. Did the overheating blow the head gasket rather than the other way around?

Sorry to hear about it.

 

[GangsterOfLove]

Well that's too bad. Mine is still going strong at 230K but nothing lasts forever.

Even so, 30K more miles for $1600 seems like a pretty good deal compared to a new truck that loses more than that when you drive it off the lot.