Blown Head Gasket...worth repairing??

[melt757]

Hello 4-Runner Enthusiast. My daughter has a 4-Runner with a blown head gasket.

Spes:
1997 Limited 4X4 with 222k miles, 3.4 V-6
Newish tires, good condition(not perfect), owned since 2005, street use only.

My daughter loves her 4-Runner, she even named it Dolly, seriously...but should she keep it?

Current Issue:
Blown head gasket #6 cylinder. blew white smoke when started.
With spark plug removed #6 spits water when started.
Looks like water in oil. Coolant level down.
Have NOT done compression or leak down check.
Work will have to be done by a shop, I can't pull heads.

Questions:
1. Should I have heads/gasket repaired OR sell it as is?
2. Should I do anymore trouble shooting to verify problem/asses condition?
3. Can anyone recommend a Toyota mechanic in Fort Worth, Tx area? Vechicle
located in Northwest Ft. Worth.
4. What is the estimated value AS IS?

Appreciate your advice. Thanks for your help.

 

[3bears]

sorry about your problem. this has been discussed so many times on this forum. check here also https://www.toyota-4runner.org/texas-and-oklahoma/

 

[gamefreakgc]

Lots of info needed before we could help assess any kind of value. Does it have rust? How is the paint job? Any body damage? Clean or salvage title? Good interior? So many things play into the value of a vehicle. It's a 4x4 so it'll always have some sort of value, even broken.

Head gaskets aren't the end of the world as nothing is really broken, just a failed gasket. Fresh fluids and a milled head will get it back on the road for roughly $1500. You aren't going to find ANY replacement vehicles anywhere close to $1500 with used vehicle prices as they are right now.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I wouldn’t have a problem just doing the head gaskets with your milage.

At that milage it’s time for a timing belt and valve adjustment anyway.


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[Bad Luck]

Repairing will always be cheaper than selling a broken vehicle and buying a dependable vehicle in good condition. You will never see a meaningful increase in value with a major repair like engine replacement/head gasket replacement/transmission replacement if you are paying a shop for repairs.

I would say no further diagnostics are required. If it were me I would replace both head gaskets, have both heads checked for cracks/warping and resurface if necessary, adjust all the valve shims while they are off, and reassemble with a new timing belt kit and new radiator/radiator cap.

 

[mtbtim]

A shop is going to charge a pretty penny for this job so then the debate starts, would it be better to do the head gasket job, would it be better to just throw a used engine in, like a JDM engine from Japan, or would it be better to put a rebuilt engine in?

If you were doing the work yourself, I'd say try the head gasket fix. You might find you have a cracked head and then the job gets more expensive, but it will be by far the most affordable of all 3 choices. You said you CAN'T pull the heads. Is it can't because you don't have the time or space to do the work, or is it can't because you believe this job is above your mechanical ability. If it's the latter, you're selling yourself short. You could do the head gasket job if you wanted to. There's a great video series available on YouTube, not done by me by the way. Here's a link to Part 1 of that series. https://youtu.be/voLBRDZL9fE

If you're not doing the work yourself, I would lean towards a used engine swap or a rebuilt engine swap. It's the labor that's going to kill you on these jobs. A head gasket job is pretty close to the same amount of labor of just pulling the engine and swapping in another.

It sounds like your daughter loves the rig. If she plans on keeping it forever, like that level of love, I'd suggest she make the investment and throw a rebuilt engine in. That's the best guarantee that the labor invested will last a very long time. With a head gasket job, there's no guarantee another major engine problem won't surface fairly soon down the road. With a used engine, it's a crap shoot that you get a good one.

Maybe you can get your daughter a beater commuter for the time being while you slowly work on getting her rig back to good health.

If you decide to go with an engine swap, you can use my video series to get it done. Here's a link to Part 1:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0EtZnqzJhI4" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[melt757]

Thank all of you for helpful information. I have also read some of the other threads about work on heads. I have only contacted 2 shops one gave me an estimate of "about" $4,000 to do both heads and I assume some of the other components like water pump, timing belt would be replaced.

I was concerned that the $$ could increase once they got into the engine. Also putting 4K into that year vehicle might not be a good decision since I do not work on cars any longer. Labor has usually been much more expensive that parts for previous maintenance done. I will get more estimates.

To answer gamefreakgc's previous question: It was driven on the street in North Texas (DFW) so I don't see any rust. It has been in a couple of fender benders but repaired. Paint is not a perfect match, some faded and some newer. It looks OK. Interior looks good, front replaced with vinyl (matches rear leather.) STOCK Vehicle. Clear Title, owned it since about 2005, used to be mine. I really like 4-Runners just not sure this is one right for her going forward.

I am Guessing this 4-Runner might be worth $2,000, AS IS. Am I wrong?

Appreciate all the information provided. It is very helpful to us.

 

[mtbtim]

With the current used vehicle market, it's worth more than 2k in it's current condition. Someone who knows what these vehicles are worth, and willing to do their own wrenching could get the rig back running for a fairly low cost. I'd say, minimum 3k but you might get more from the right buyer.

 

[jman11788]

If it were me I would try to find a good used engine. There's plenty of them out there. Much easier labor wise to just swap in than rebuild the heads.

 

[JohnMc]

My wife's '96 blew a HG at a little over 300K. And she put new HG's on. I looked at the bores while the heads were off - it was still looking great. No real ridge at the top, 95% crosshatching, only a really small shiny area (top of the bore, on the 'throw' side of the bore). Toyota went through multiple revisions on the HG's over the course of the 3rd gen, traditional, traad with expanded steel around the chambers, traditional with a whole steel side, and finally to a complete MLS style gasket on the latest years. There's really not any reason to not get the latest version, although for whatever reason some of the earlier revisions are still for sale. Just pick the MLS style (01-02 fitment?).

Based on how good those bores look, and the fact that it doesn't use enough oil to require a top-off between oil changes, I think it's got plenty of life left in it.

It's no easy work either way - replacing the HG's vs. swapping the motor. I'd lean toward swapping the HG's myself, but that's not paying a shop to do the labor. If you have a shop you trust, ask them for a cost rundown.
- cost of replacement used motor and cost to swap
vs.
- cost of HG replacement

There's certainly no guarantee that a used motor isn't most of the way to needing a HG for that matter. The main issue is the aluminum heads on the iron block. A s the motor warms up - the head and block expand at different rates. So the HG, clamped between them, gets scuffed back and forth with every cold start heat cycle. Eventually, it will fail. Almost more a matter of number of heat cycles vs. mileage, regardless of good or bad or downright neglectful maintenance. The MLS style gaskets are designed to handle that scuffing a lot better than the fiber/traditional style. A new set of MLS HG's and you're probably good for another 300K miles.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I did my own work and my friends machine shop rebuilt the heads. I think I paid 300-400 a head plus the 200 dollar or so YotaShop head replacement kit that came with everything needed to replace the heads.

Edit to save time and hassle I left the exhaust system intact and pulled the exhaust studs out of the heads to remove them.

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[frank_socal]

YES!, I bought my 4runner with blown head gasket at 275K miles. I fixed and still running strong at 325K miles.

 

[thegipper]

FWIW, I was in the same situation with my 97, blown head gasket with about the same miles. I decided to just swap in a good used motor instead of labor intensive (and costly) head gasket repair. Fortunately I had bought a parts truck off another member on here so I had a good spare engine. I did the swap myself and while it was labor intensive, it's really not too bad.

Even if I didn't have the parts truck, I still would have just found a good used engine and swapped it in.

You can search on Car-part.com and see how much used engines are going for in your area. Ideally, you can find one with 150k ish miles for under a grand. Figure another grand or so to have a shop swap it in and you'll be back on the road.

Good luck either way.

 

[shadow247]

Thank all of you for helpful information. I have also read some of the other threads about work on heads. I have only contacted 2 shops one gave me an estimate of "about" $4,000 to do both heads and I assume some of the other components like water pump, timing belt would be replaced.

I was concerned that the $$ could increase once they got into the engine. Also putting 4K into that year vehicle might not be a good decision since I do not work on cars any longer. Labor has usually been much more expensive that parts for previous maintenance done. I will get more estimates.

To answer gamefreakgc's previous question: It was driven on the street in North Texas (DFW) so I don't see any rust. It has been in a couple of fender benders but repaired. Paint is not a perfect match, some faded and some newer. It looks OK. Interior looks good, front replaced with vinyl (matches rear leather.) STOCK Vehicle. Clear Title, owned it since about 2005, used to be mine. I really like 4-Runners just not sure this is one right for her going forward.

I am Guessing this 4-Runner might be worth $2,000, AS IS. Am I wrong?

Appreciate all the information provided. It is very helpful to us.

Hey Brother! I'm in DFW. Hit me up. I know a few guys that might be able to help you!

$2,000 is about right for a non-running 4x4 in clean condition.

 

[Rottdogsparky]

So I am wondering where you are at with the decision?

 

[Rottdogsparky]

So I am wondering where you are at with the decision?

 

[melt757]

So I am wondering where you are at with the decision?

Since my 4-Runner specific knowledge was limited it is a process to come up with the correct decision for me and my Daughter, I didn't even know about 4-Runner head issues till it happened. The responses to my post have aided me greatly.

A high rated Toyota shop can replace the heads (rebuilt head $450 ea.$1,600 labor) for a total of $3,200 which includes other items that should be replaced with the heads off. Engine swap would be $2,200 labor. "Limited" search for engine by me found 1,200 - $2,200 for lower milage or A rated engines. Don't have time or expertise to search for a good engine. So if I repair it fixing the known engine I have seems like best decision for me.

Also with the help of members on this forum the vehicle AS IS will bring 2k to over 3K depending on condition.

There are so many great resources available on 4-Runner.org and YouTube if I were younger it would be an easy decision to fix it myself. Still researching but leaning toward selling it if I can get a decent price. That way I can buy someone else's problems.

All the informative reply's this thread as well as some of the other threads about head gaskets on this site have been very helpful. My daughter and I appreciate your responses.

Thanks, Mel

 

[Romeo1]

Worth it is relative. It’s still cheaper than buying another car……

But it’s easy for me cause I do my own work. Aways had to…..

That was the joke back in my shop and mechanic days. We had to become mechanics because we were too broke to pay anyone else to do it[emoji38]

 

[cl4Rk]

It’s still cheaper than buying another car

This is true more often than not.

The average used car monthly payment right now is $465/mo ( source: Average Auto Loan Payments: What To Expect | Bankrate )

Even if a repair is $5000, that’s less than one year of payments on an average used car right now. And that average used car will probably not be a body on frame 4x4. Oh and average used cars also need repairs.