Brake Bleed
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CJ3Flyr
Super Moderator
Here's my soapbox speech:
Back when I was a boy brakes only lasted 40-50k, tops. The mechanic would put on new brakes and bleed the whole system thereby getting the old, moisture laden, corrosive brake fluid out of the system. Now that I'm no longer a boy and they don't build them like they used to brakes last MUCH longer. With the advent of super-easy disc brake designs that allow anyone to slap a set of pads in there people don't bleed/flush like they used to. The next "player" is our brake system components. New systems have ABS motors, complicated valve bodies and cost a small fortune compared with the $60 master cylinder of yesteryear.
I think, as a whole, brake system maintenance is an under-emphasized part of routine maint. Brake fluid absorbs water like crazy. Once it's moisture laden it will start corroding/rusting components. Once you start buying new generation master cylinders/ABS controllers an occasional brake fluid flush will seem cheap.
I take it one step further, when I rotate my tires I crack the bleeders spread the calipers (taking care to get the bleeders closed before I introduce air). I then top the reservoir, pump the pedal a few times and top again. Basically I do a partial fluid change everytime I rotate. By the time I get 'x' number of rotations I have 'flushed' the brakes. The other thing is I am always introduce fresh, dry fluid to the system helping to keep it corrosion free.
I can only assume the question came up because someone tried 'up-sell' you a flush?
:cheers:
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No, I'm just wondering if I need a brake flush.
I have a 2003 4Runner with only about 42k miles. The brake fluid in the reservoir is yellow...looks new. I've never changed it.
I had my safety inspection last year and they thought I had put on new pads b/c the pads were barely worn. I pretty much drive by braking efficiently.
It's just recently that I felt maybe I need to depress the brakes slightly more in order to stop.
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CJ3Flyr
Super Moderator
If I had a low mileage, gently used '03 I'd do it just based on age... The fact is still yellow is a good sign.
Yes, I plan on getting it done via the dealer....it'll cost about $160. Brake fluid is nasty stuff.
Gonna do the power steering fluid too.
How often do brake calipers need to be adjusted?
There's no adjustments on a brake caliper....they self-adjust as the pads wear. Just bleed the brakes and you'll be good to go.
Well, I took my T4R to the dealer and this is what they found:
The braking required extra pedal depression effort because the front calipers were seizing due to corrosion where they recommended replacing them. Here's my tally as I luckily had discount coupons with me.
Replacing front both front calipers: $630 ($680 regular)
Pad replacements: $85 ($140 regular)
Machine both rotors: $170
Brake Flush: $130 ($170 regular)
Power Steering Flush: $130 ($170 regular)
Replace both differential fluids and transfer case: $100 ($140 reg)
Total Damage: ~$1300 :roadkill:
Toyota seriously needs to address their underbody rust issue.
The braking required extra pedal depression effort because the front calipers were seizing due to corrosion where they recommended replacing them. Here's my tally as I luckily had discount coupons with me.
Replacing front both front calipers: $630 ($680 regular)
Pad replacements: $85 ($140 regular)
Machine both rotors: $170
Brake Flush: $130 ($170 regular)
Power Steering Flush: $130 ($170 regular)
Replace both differential fluids and transfer case: $100 ($140 reg)
Total Damage: ~$1300 :roadkill:
Toyota seriously needs to address their underbody rust issue.
CJ3Flyr
Super Moderator
OUCH but no worries for a long time. (All us DIY guys always say "ouch". I'm not saying you got ripped off or anything.
) When it's time for another brake flush consider a good independent shop. 4Runner brakes are not super high-tech things. Any good shop could handle a flush.
YES! They need to upgrade coatings and select slightly different alloys on the frames/components etc. Engineering wise they're little works of art but they just rot away.:cheers:
OUCH but no worries for a long time. (All us DIY guys always say "ouch". I'm not saying you got ripped off or anything.
When it's time for another brake flush consider a good independent shop. 4Runner brakes are not super high-tech things. Any good shop could handle a flush.
YES! They need to upgrade coatings and select slightly different alloys on the frames/components etc. Engineering wise they're little works of art but they just rot away.:cheers:
I would normally go to an independent shop to get things done, but both Toyota and Honda generally have specific requirements for their fluids (e.g. transmission, brake, power steering, coolant, etc.) that after market products supposedly don't meet.
The flush itself probably would have saved a few dollars if I went independent. It's the non-OEM brake calipers from an independent shop that would bother me. The dealer ended up putting remanufactured Toyota calipers on my truck, whereas brand new Toyota calipers would have cost.......$480 each.
It's just sad/shocking to me when I see Honda Pilots on the road and they have nice powder coated parts for their underbodies, and for Toyota, you see rust.
It's clear from doing a little research that the 4Runners have been having untimely frozen caliper issues. Does anyone know whether the other SUVs (Highlander, Sequioa, Land Rover, Lexus SUV, etc.) have the same issues?
Slap me now, but may have to consider a Honda Pilot b/c they have 4WD with locking differentials now.
Slap me now, but may have to consider a Honda Pilot b/c they have 4WD with locking differentials now.
Oh yes, I know I could have done it, but do I want to spend twice/three times the time crawling under the vehicle in the hot, humid weather?
With big projects, I've learned that the money you save, you'll probably need for therapy later.
BTW, I haven't heard of anyone on this blog turning their own rotors.
When it comes to brake fluid, the 4Runner just uses regular DOT3. There's no reason to buy it from a Toyota dealership if you can get it cheaper from an auto parts store. Don't let the service advisor at your dealer tell you anything different...
As for the remanufactured calipers---I wish I could find someone who actually makes and sells their own calipers, but the fact of the matter is that ALL remanufactured calipers are Toyota castings. As far as I know, NOBODY makes aftermarket front calipers for our 4Runners....they just rebuild Toyota units and sell them as remans. If I could find someone who sells their own replacements, I'd buy them in a heartbeat because the Toyota calipers have a serious problem with the pistons seizing.
The only thing that disappoints me about my 4Runner is the amount of rust on the underbody. Most of it is just surface rust, but it still looks pretty crappy underneath. I live in the snowbelt, so my 4Runner does see a good amount of road salt, but my 4Runner looks more rusty underneath than my other vehicles that see the same amount of winter use.
Yes, I recently replaced both front calipers due to seized lower inboard pistons. This is a very common problem on the 4th gen 4Runner and soon to be a problem on the 5th gen as well because they use the same exact brake calipers.
There's really nothing we can do to prevent corrosion of the calipers. I think it's more of a design flaw than anything. My 4Runner is a 2004 and the calipers just froze this year, so if I get another 6 or 7 years out of the remanufactured calipers, I'll be satisfied I guess...
My 4Runner has zero rust under the hood. Everything still looks pretty much brand new there...it's only the frame/chassis that shows rust.
No, I never looked into it. I'm sure anything is possible, but I was just searching for an aftermarket caliper that was basically a bolt-on replacement for the originals.