Brake caliper issue with new calipers?

[Rannd]

Hi all,

About 3-4 months ago I put 5th gen calipers on my 4th gen 4Runner. I did this because I just bought it and didn't know the history of it. It needed new rotors and pads and I knew there are people with caliper issues so I replaced everything.

Put new OEM brake pads, 5th gen centric rotors, OEM brake fluid.... now all of a sudden in the past 24 hours if I'm light or heavy on the pedal it feels like a warped rotor where the steering wheel goes left and right and you feel it in the pedal. But then sometimes it completely goes away and the brakes act normal. I haven't had any issues since all of this was installed and all of a sudden it's happening. Any thoughts?

 

[rjb75]

Sounds like a caliper is sticking closed-could also be a front brake hose is collapsing internally and causing the caliper to stick. I had a Jeep that exhibited the same symptoms, we changed the caliper and hose which fixed the problem.

 

[The Yin]

I'm no expert here, but, is it possible this same, or similar, problem could come from steering components? Maybe a bad tie rod end or maybe bad Upper control arm ball joint or bushings?

 

[Rannd]

I'm no expert here, but, is it possible this same, or similar, problem could come from steering components? Maybe a bad tie rod end or maybe bad Upper control arm ball joint or bushings?

It drives completely fine otherwise. I tried quickly steering the 4Runner left and right at low speeds and high speeds. Drives fine on the highway and at low speeds.

Took a few pictures of the front rotors. Look fine to me?

 

[rjb75]

Since this just started to happen, I wouldn't expect to see anything by looking at the rotors. What you can do though, is check to see if one wheel is warmer than the other just after it happens. The warmer wheel will be the side that is sticking.

 

[DMX512]

Just spitballing here, as I am no expert, and will be doing this soon myself.
Did you bed them in per manufactures/other members instructions?
Please keep us posted.

 

[banilla16]

I did the 5th gen replacements over this last late summer. This would be the 3rd time replacing the calipers, but the 1st with 5th gen. I ended up painting them before hand to cut down on the potential salt and rust.

COULD be that you're having caliper issue... what about checking the power steering pump and fluid?

 

[Arthur4R]

I highly doubt that the 5th gen calipers are sticking, that was the whole point of us doing the 5th gen swap to almost never have to deal with it. I replaced all my rotors, pads and calipers with 5th gen and no issues at all.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I highly doubt that the 5th gen calipers are sticking, that was the whole point of us doing the 5th gen swap to almost never have to deal with it. I replaced all my rotors, pads and calipers with 5th gen and no issues at all.

We've seen the 5th gen calipers sticking in our area, I think that rumor got started because they were new enough no one really saw enough issues yet.

The main reason I want 5th gen calipers is because they're the same size as my Sport brakes but have larger diameter pistons.

 

[Slowgoat]

We've seen the 5th gen calipers sticking in our area, I think that rumor got started because they were new enough no one really saw enough issues yet.

The main reason I want 5th gen calipers is because they're the same size as my Sport brakes but have larger diameter pistons.

Well that sucks, Blackworks!

What can we do to keep them from sticking? I'm in the rust belt.

Lubing the pins a couple times a year? Prayer?

Damn.

I was hoping against hope.

They do stop better at least!

 

[shahsmerdis]

did you put the caliper on incorrect tie down the brake hose what ever reason?

Take them off and test for frozen calipers. Pads should not be jamed into place hopefully you used fresh hardware.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Well that sucks, Blackworks!

What can we do to keep them from sticking? I'm in the rust belt.

Lubing the pins a couple times a year? Prayer?

Damn.

I was hoping against hope.

They do stop better at least!

Well changing the brake fluid out around 3yr/30k is not a bad idea as it is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture over time. Additionally making sure the boots are in good condition would be a good thing to do as well.

I think a lot of them are seizing because the boots are getting pinched and/or pulled away from their grooves enough to allow moisture behind them (I'm talking about the piston boots on the calipers).
[MENTION=138493]Rannd[/MENTION]

Those rotors look heavily glazed, did you clean the rotors off with brake clean and/or soapy water before installing them? Some rotors have a fluid coating on them to help prevent rust when being packaged and failure to clean that off before properly bedding the pads can prematurely "warp" them.

 

[Rannd]

Well changing the brake fluid out around 3yr/30k is not a bad idea as it is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture over time. Additionally making sure the boots are in good condition would be a good thing to do as well.

I think a lot of them are seizing because the boots are getting pinched and/or pulled away from their grooves enough to allow moisture behind them (I'm talking about the piston boots on the calipers).

Those rotors look heavily glazed, did you clean the rotors off with brake clean and/or soapy water before installing them? Some rotors have a fluid coating on them to help prevent rust when being packaged and failure to clean that off before properly bedding the pads can prematurely "warp" them.

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]

Yup, used brake cleaner. Everything was installed by my friend who is a Toyota Master Certified mechanic.

I did tow my car from Cincinnati to Indianapolis on a UHaul trailer and back but I wasn't that hard on the brakes. I also used the same trailer on the old brakes and they didn't kill the rotors that bad.

Looks like I'll replace the rotors and hope it doesn't happen again.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]

Yup, used brake cleaner. Everything was installed by my friend who is a Toyota Master Certified mechanic.

I did tow my car from Cincinnati to Indianapolis on a UHaul trailer and back but I wasn't that hard on the brakes. I also used the same trailer on the old brakes and they didn't kill the rotors that bad.

Looks like I'll replace the rotors and hope it doesn't happen again.

Well before you replace the rotors, maybe have your mechanic friend cut them for you? No reason to throw away perfectly good rotors when they can be cut (I don't see hot spots on them).

Perhaps you were too light on the brakes when towing? If you're too hard on the brakes you can vitrify the pads, if you're too light (always dragging them, lightly applying, long stops, ect.) you can also overheat the pads and vitrify them.

 

[lbhsbz]

In your 3rd and 4th picture you can clearly see a pad imprint in the rotor. This is what is causing your issue. How it occured, dunno. Could be the brakes not releasing properly, but it doesn't look like the rotor has been overheated.

OEM pads as in you bought them at the dealer?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

In your 3rd and 4th picture you can clearly see a pad imprint in the rotor. This is what is causing your issue. How it occured, dunno. Could be the brakes not releasing properly, but it doesn't look like the rotor has been overheated.

OEM pads as in you bought them at the dealer?

Typically what happens is that the pad & rotor become very hot, the pad begins to vitrify and then you stop the car to a complete rest. The pad cools, vitrified material remains on the rotor and thus now it becomes "warped", sometimes the "imprint" is very light and gets wiped away after a few brake applications (so it might more of a shadow than anything), other times it is enough material that it just makes parts of the rotor smooth and heat up, and repeat the process making it worse.

 

[lbhsbz]

Typically what happens is that the pad & rotor become very hot, the pad begins to vitrify and then you stop the car to a complete rest. The pad cools, vitrified material remains on the rotor and thus now it becomes "warped", sometimes the "imprint" is very light and gets wiped away after a few brake applications (so it might more of a shadow than anything), other times it is enough material that it just makes parts of the rotor smooth and heat up, and repeat the process making it worse.

I know how it works, I've been the tech guy for Centric Parts for 14 years. Generally a pad imprint due to heat has more discoloration...not just an outline. Outlines are generally due to corrosion, but that doesn't look like the case here either...unless the vehicle was washed and let sit for the night after the brakes got hosed down and absorbed some water, but even then I don't usually see this with OE pads.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I know how it works, I've been the tech guy for Centric Parts for 14 years. Generally a pad imprint due to heat has more discoloration...not just an outline. Outlines are generally due to corrosion, but that doesn't look like the case here either...unless the vehicle was washed and let sit for the night after the brakes got hosed down and absorbed some water, but even then I don't usually see this with OE pads.

I'm sure you've seen more brake pad vitrification than I have working for Centric (now that I know you work for one of our brake parts suppliers I shall hound you for information until the end of time! BWUAHAHAHA j/k), but I will mention that I regularly see those types of pad imprint shadows on a lot of our "commuter" Toyotas. Usually more than once, given that it seems Toyota's pads are on the softer side and some customers (particularly the ones in the Bay Area where I used to live) have managed to "warp" their brakes in less than 10k from brand new, I would say that actually kinda looks normal to me in terms of it just being a light "shadow" rather than as you pointed out a much more obvious and discolored imprint as you mentioned (I see those "shadows" fairly often on commuter cars).

Usually corrosion imprints from sitting overnight or washing hot brakes tend to look a bit different so I agree with you on that as well.

 

[Rannd]

In your 3rd and 4th picture you can clearly see a pad imprint in the rotor. This is what is causing your issue. How it occured, dunno. Could be the brakes not releasing properly, but it doesn't look like the rotor has been overheated.

OEM pads as in you bought them at the dealer?

3rd and 4th photos are the rears.. maybe that is from the e-brake?

OEM pads purchased from Amazon (Fullfilled by Amazon)

Fronts: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004SL0MZK
Rears: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004SL8432/

 

[catrains]

just saying brake cleaner is to be used only on metal. if used on plastic/rubber it is damaging.

the calipers need a silicone brake grease on the caliper piston seal and those guide pins. this keeps out the corrosive salts. it is a high temp grease .

almost like the spark plug dielectric grease but higher temp ability. comes in tubes 12 OZ or so $15 ..

I have rust belt calipers 17 and 21 yrs old LOL...

I did on one of my vehicles have new calipers on new truck with rear defective calipers OEM.. the replacements still working..

the most one of the most important things to do is open the caliper bleed screw when you are going to push back the caliper pistons . if NOT then all that damaged fluid will do serious damage..

even the pro's may not do this ..