Brake Flush???

[MikeinCincy]

What is the general consensus on getting your brakes "flushed"? The reason I ask is because my 4Runner is almost 3 years old (this February) and I don't think it has ever had the brakes flushed.

1. Is it really necessary?

2. How much would the stealer charge to do it?

3. Is it something I could so myself (keep in mind I am not really mechanically inclined. Although, I did install my skid plate! I'm pretty proud about that).

Thank you guys.


-Mike

 

[CJ3Flyr]

What is the general consensus on getting your brakes "flushed"? The reason I ask is because my 4Runner is almost 3 years old (this February) and I don't think it has ever had the brakes flushed.

1. Is it really necessary?

2. How much would the stealer charge to do it?

3. Is it something I could so myself (keep in mind I am not really mechanically inclined. Although, I did install my skid plate! I'm pretty proud about that).

Thank you guys.


-Mike

1) I think it's a great idea to flush the brakes every 3-4 years. Reasons: The brake system (master cylinder/ABS etc) is huge $$$. Brake fluid doesn't circulate down to the calipers where the most heat is applied to the fluid. Brake fluid absorbs moisture which makes it more corrosive and lowers it's boiling point. Finally, brake fluid is the lube for the moving components of the brake system. Flushing removes any particulate and provides fresh 'lube' to the components.

2) Don't know, $100-$120?

3) Yes. Budget an hour (2max) and a helper. You will need to be outside the vehicle while the helper runs the brake pedal at your command.

:cheers:

 

[MikeinCincy]

Re: Re: Brake Flush???

1) I think it's a great idea to flush the brakes every 3-4 years. Reasons: The brake system (master cylinder/ABS etc) is huge $$$. Brake fluid doesn't circulate down to the calipers where the most heat is applied to the fluid. Brake fluid absorbs moisture which makes it more corrosive and lowers it's boiling point. Finally, brake fluid is the lube for the moving components of the brake system. Flushing removes any particulate and provides fresh 'lube' to the components.

2) Don't know, $100-$120?

3) Yes. Budget an hour (2max) and a helper. You will need to be outside the vehicle while the helper runs the brake pedal at your command.

:cheers:

Thank you so much for the help CJ3FLYR!! I'll probably just have the stealer take care of it. I just hate going there!! Anyways, I figure it's a good idea to get it done since my truck is almost 3 years old and it has never been done before. Thanks again!

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Re: Re: Re: Brake Flush???

Thank you so much for the help CJ3FLYR!! I'll probably just have the stealer take care of it. I just hate going there!! Anyways, I figure it's a good idea to get it done since my truck is almost 3 years old and it has never been done before. Thanks again!

You're quite welcome. There's nothing incredibly magic about the T4R brakes. A good import shop or any good old fashion garage should be able to do it with no issues.

How will you know thay did what they were supposed to and they charged you for? The brake pedal feel will improve a little and the fluid in the reservoir will look straw colored instead of dark brown.

:cheers:

 

[MikeinCincy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Brake Flush???

You're quite welcome. There's nothing incredibly magic about the T4R brakes. A good import shop or any good old fashion garage should be able to do it with no issues.

How will you know thay did what they were supposed to and they charged you for? The brake pedal feel will improve a little and the fluid in the reservoir will look straw colored instead of dark brown.

:cheers:

Geeze, you are extremely knowledgeable about 4Runners! Wish I could say the same about me!!!:bash:

I will maybe check out some import shops if the dealer price is too high (which I'm sure it is). Thanks again for all of the help

 

[J.A.]

Brake Flush Write-Up. Havent done the 4th gen yet. I've heard you need to modify the chains/hooks that hold the cap on to get a good seal. Otherwise DIY is the way to go.

 

[MikeinCincy]

Brake Flush Write-Up. Havent done the 4th gen yet. I've heard you need to modify the chains/hooks that hold the cap on to get a good seal. Otherwise DIY is the way to go.

Thanks J.A. That's a really good detailed write up. I'll read it over again and decide if it's something I would like to try by myself (or with the help of a buddy).

 

[loner]

Let me introduce you to my new best friends - Speed Bleeders. You install them in place of your existing bleeder screws. They make bleeding your brakes relatively easy, with no special tools and without needing an additional person.

The part numbers for the 4th generation are SB1010 (rear) and SB7100 (front). You need a pair each. It runs about $30 for all 4, plus shipping. I got mine off eBay from a gu who sells only SpeedBleeders.

No ties to the company that makes them - I'm just a happy customer. I installed extended stainless steel brake lines on my truck (from Slee Off-Road) and the Speed Bleeders made it a very easy job.

Note that when you install the Speed Bleeders, they will look like they are not seated down all the way. It took me about 5 minutes to realize the stock bleeder screws stick out the same way and this is normal.

 

[riverwolf]

I used one of these , but got mine at Harbor Freight for about the same price since they had it in stock locally. No helper needed.

Most instructions I found said to just crack the bleeders maybe a 1/4 turn at most and made me paranoid about letting air in the line if I did it more. After wearing myself out pumping away for a loooong time, I finally opened the bleeder more like a 1/2 turn about half way through the 3rd line. %!@#$!!!, could've been done with whole job in the time it took me to do the first line.

-Brent

 

[MikeinCincy]

I am just confused by this whole thing. No where in my maintenance book does it say anything about getting a brake flush. So, if I really needed it, wouldn't it be in there?

Also, I called my local dealer and they said it would cost $130.00. Seemed a little steep to me. So, I called a local import place and thye said $90.00. I'd rather not pay anything if it isn't really necessary. Anyone else have an opinion on this?

 

[Jeff Kleb]

Brake Flush


I'm always one to do oil changes way more often than necessary, but I have never worried about getting brake fluid flushed until I had shoes/pads replaced.

Unless you are extremely hard with the way you drive your vehicles, your braking system & fluid should work okay for several years if no foreign material gets into the reservoir (dirt, water, etc.).

I had my '05 4Runner for three years and 33,500 miles and never touched the brakes or the brake fluid. My pads still had nearly 2/3 of their life remaining and everything was still "good to go" with it. The fluid in the reservoir still looked very clean.

All I did to that truck was basic oil & filter changes -- along with replacing the V6 spark plugs at 31,000 miles (necessary for the V6, but not the V8 models). It had the "long life" coolant and ATF, so nothing was needed with either of them.

With other cars I have driven, I have found that having it done when getting the pads replaced seems to make sense. Everyone's different, though, so I know you'll get lots of different opinions here.

Regarding cost, that will vary widely. Some shops will cut you a break on the labor -- provided you're getting other stuff done with them at the same time (brake shoes/pads replaced, rotors turned, tune-up, coolant flush, etc.). Others will not. All you can do is ask.

As for doing it yourself, I say go for it if you have a reliable buddy who has done it before and who will be a good helper. Braking is one area where you probably don't want to f*ck things up. It can also be a very messy job and you want to be certain not to get any brake fluid on your vehicle's paint.
:bash:

Anyway, good luck to you and be sure to let us all know how it turns out for you.
:bigok:

 

[MikeinCincy]

Re: Brake Flush

I'm always one to do oil changes way more often than necessary, but I have never worried about getting brake fluid flushed until I had shoes/pads replaced.

Unless you are extremely hard with the way you drive your vehicles, your braking system & fluid should work okay for several years if no foreign material gets into the reservoir (dirt, water, etc.).

I had my '05 4Runner for three years and 33,500 miles and never touched the brakes or the brake fluid. My pads still had nearly 2/3 of their life remaining and everything was still "good to go" with it. The fluid in the reservoir still looked very clean.

All I did to that truck was basic oil & filter changes -- along with replacing the V6 spark plugs at 31,000 miles (necessary for the V6, but not the V8 models). It had the "long life" coolant and ATF, so nothing was needed with either of them.

With other cars I have driven, I have found that having it done when getting the pads replaced seems to make sense. Everyone's different, though, so I know you'll get lots of different opinions here.

Regarding cost, that will vary widely. Some shops will cut you a break on the labor -- provided you're getting other stuff done with them at the same time (brake shoes/pads replaced, rotors turned, tune-up, coolant flush, etc.). Others will not. All you can do is ask.

As for doing it yourself, I say go for it if you have a reliable buddy who has done it before and who will be a good helper. Braking is one area where you probably don't want to f*ck things up. It can also be a very messy job and you want to be certain not to get any brake fluid on your vehicle's paint.
:bash:

Anyway, good luck to you and be sure to let us all know how it turns out for you.
:bigok:

Thanks for the very informative email Jeff. I will probably have it done when I need to get my brake pads replaced sometime in the future. I drive like an old man, rarely ever go off road (unfortunately), and take really good care of my 4Runner.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Re: Brake Flush

I'm always one to do oil changes way more often than necessary, but I have never worried about getting brake fluid flushed until I had shoes/pads replaced.

Unless you are extremely hard with the way you drive your vehicles, your braking system & fluid should work okay for several years if no foreign material gets into the reservoir (dirt, water, etc.).

I had my '05 4Runner for three years and 33,500 miles and never touched the brakes or the brake fluid. My pads still had nearly 2/3 of their life remaining and everything was still "good to go" with it. The fluid in the reservoir still looked very clean.

All I did to that truck was basic oil & filter changes -- along with replacing the V6 spark plugs at 31,000 miles (necessary for the V6, but not the V8 models). It had the "long life" coolant and ATF, so nothing was needed with either of them.

With other cars I have driven, I have found that having it done when getting the pads replaced seems to make sense. Everyone's different, though, so I know you'll get lots of different opinions here.

Regarding cost, that will vary widely. Some shops will cut you a break on the labor -- provided you're getting other stuff done with them at the same time (brake shoes/pads replaced, rotors turned, tune-up, coolant flush, etc.). Others will not. All you can do is ask.

As for doing it yourself, I say go for it if you have a reliable buddy who has done it before and who will be a good helper. Braking is one area where you probably don't want to f*ck things up. It can also be a very messy job and you want to be certain not to get any brake fluid on your vehicle's paint.
:bash:

Anyway, good luck to you and be sure to let us all know how it turns out for you.
:bigok:

I mostly agree... In the old days we'd put brakes on every 3 to 5 years and that was a fine interval for new fluid. Not so anymore especially on low mileage vehicle. I live in a moist, salty envir. Brake fluid is almost as good as Damp-rid for sucking up water. I get concerned about the lowered boiling point and the extra corrosive abilities of watered down brake fluid. With modern, long-life brakes I just 'feel' better changing it based on some age/mileage formula. (4years/60k generally.) As you said it is a preference...

As corroborating evidence I have never had to replace a master or slave cylinder on a standard shift car because I change the fluid (most use brake fluid). Most people I know replace one or both if they go beyond 7years/130k. For that matter I can't recall the last vehicle I needed a master cylinder for provided it came under my control prior to 5years/75k miles.

I vote for changing it. I agree with Jeff and used to just change it when I needed brakes; times have changed IMO. Now, if you have a Jeep GC that needs brakes every 28k I guess you're all set:bash:

 

[MikeinCincy]

Re: Re: Brake Flush

I mostly agree... In the old days we'd put brakes on every 3 to 5 years and that was a fine interval for new fluid. Not so anymore especially on low mileage vehicle. I live in a moist, salty envir. Brake fluid is almost as good as Damp-rid for sucking up water. I get concerned about the lowered boiling point and the extra corrosive abilities of watered down brake fluid. With modern, long-life brakes I just 'feel' better changing it based on some age/mileage formula. (4years/60k generally.) As you said it is a preference...

As corroborating evidence I have never had to replace a master or slave cylinder on a standard shift car because I change the fluid (most use brake fluid). Most people I know replace one or both if they go beyond 7years/130k. For that matter I can't recall the last vehicle I needed a master cylinder for provided it came under my control prior to 5years/75k miles.

I vote for changing it. I agree with Jeff and used to just change it when I needed brakes; times have changed IMO. Now, if you have a Jeep GC that needs brakes every 28k I guess you're all set:bash:

So, let me get this straight. Since cars have gotten better/more reliable/etc., I need to change the fluid more often? Isn't it completely sealed?

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Re: Re: Re: Brake Flush

So, let me get this straight. Since cars have gotten better/more reliable/etc., I need to change the fluid more often? Isn't it completely sealed?

Sort-of... The seal is good but not perfect, that's one point. The second is I am not really suggesting changing it more than you would have in the old days. I am advocating changing it at a similar interval. The big difference is in the old days brake replacement was the trigger point. I am suggesting that with todays vehicles a mid-brake life fluid change is a good idea. Again, that's because the brakes last so damn long compared with the old days:bigok: I just focused on the fact yours is an '06. I'd change it in 2010 or between 60k-75k, whichever happened first. If I did a lot of towing with a non-braked trailer I might put 40k-50k as the mileage limit. That's just my opinion though...

:cheers:

 

[MikeinCincy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Brake Flush

Sort-of... The seal is good but not perfect, that's one point. The second is I am not really suggesting changing it more than you would have in the old days. I am advocating changing it at a similar interval. The big difference is in the old days brake replacement was the trigger point. I am suggesting that with todays vehicles a mid-brake life fluid change is a good idea. Again, that's because the brakes last so damn long compared with the old days:bigok: I just focused on the fact yours is an '06. I'd change it in 2010 or between 60k-75k, whichever happened first. If I did a lot of towing with a non-braked trailer I might put 40k-50k as the mileage limit. That's just my opinion though...

:cheers:

Sounds great. All makes sense to me now. You really have helped me out a lot guys and I want you to know that I really appreciate it. This forum is a great place because of guys like you.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

:awais: As I was saying early brake flushing is good... "bad abs on 2004 4runner help!!
I have a 2004 4runner about 1 month ago i was on my way home doing 45 mph or so and the abs kicked in and locked the trucks brakes and i almost blowed into a wall,took it to the dealer and got it back a week later and replaced the abs computer to the tune of $1500,drove it home from the dealer and did not even make it 20 miles before the truck did the same thing almost causing me to hit another car,once again took back to the dealer were the 4runner has been now for 3weeks and the now have replaced the master cylinder and abs pump to the tune of $2400 just in parts!!!have not got the truck back yet they said there tech wants to drive it for a few day to make sure it is fixed, i do not feel safe driving it nowfor the fear it might happen again,has any one heard anything about this or have had the same problems,good thing i do have an extended service plain that is taking care of all the cost but i dont know if i even want this thing back,if you add up parts and labor there has been over 5 grand put just into the abs system!!!!if any one could give me some ideals on this situation it would be a big help...by the way the 4runner has 38 thousand miles one owner bought by me brand new!!! thx"

I am not sure that flushing would've prevented this. I do know it wouldn't have hurt...

:cheers:

 

[Methodical]

I personally flush when I replace pads.

When the pads are off, I bleed the caliper and PUSH THE PISTONS back in, reducing the volume inside the caliper. Do both, remount, then fill the master cylinder and pump like crazy.

I also never top off the brake fluid either. That way I can tell how worn my pads are (pads get smaller, pistons need more fluid to compensate)
.... if I were to top it off and later push the pistons in... overflow! that sucks.

The calipers are where the brake fluid is more abused and in need of help. In my opinion, simply flushing the calipers without pushing the pistons does NOT circulate the old used fluid out.... Someone should try a normal flush then push the pistons and see if obviously old fluid comes out.