Brakes and Rotors

[psa5555]

Hey All,

I'm just looking for a few opinions.... I've just taken my 2013 T4R in to the Dealer for a quick look over. I'm at 59 000+ kms and thought I would have them check it out before the warranty expires at 60K. No major issues found for warranty... but they are recommending brakes and rotors all the way around... saying brakes were 3/4 worn on all and that the rotors were very rusty especially the rear. They said I could turn them, but I probably won't bother. I get that rotors and brakes go hand in hand but... the rotors shouldn't be that bad already...

I wasn't expecting to need brakes and rotors quite so early... I figured I was good for at least another 20K. Is that normal wear on the OEM pads for a T4R? I don't feel a pulse in the brake peddle, but if I do the pads, I may as well put better rotors on...

I don't hear any chirping, so I think I'm good for a little bit. I am going to replace the front and rear pads with Akebono's.... They've been great on all my trucks, wear long and are clean... would you consider any other pads??

Second, I'm not sure what to put on for Rotors... the Centric Premium line looks popular, there is also the Raybestos Adv. Tech and what I am most familiar with is the AC Delco Professional Rotors.. Can anybody give me advice on what has been a good premium rotor for you and what to stay away from on these SUV's. What about OEM rotors? although I'm not real happy with the wear so far, if they need to be replaced....

BTW... I really like my T4R... I think I'm going to replace my old Chev. with another one and put 2 in the yard. Thanks for the help all!

 

[jwkilgore]

I wasn't expecting to need brakes and rotors quite so early... I figured I was good for at least another 20K. Is that normal wear on the OEM pads for a T4R? I don't feel a pulse in the brake peddle, but if I do the pads, I may as well put better rotors on...

You don't need brakes or rotors. The ones you have are fine. They're just trying to talk you into extra work you don't need so they make more money; it's called an upsale. It would be like refilling your gas tank when 1/4 full, but dumping the remaining gas on the ground first. And that's if you trust the "3/4 worn" to be accurate; most likely you're closer to 5/8 worn or less and they rounded up.

I'd replace at this point if you were about to start an epic month-long road trip, but otherwise just keep driving.

Keep vs. turn (mill) vs. replace: Putting new pads on a grooved rotor wears the pads faster, so always either turn or replace the rotor. If going back with OEM pads there's no benefit gained by replacing instead of turning (if it's thick enough). If going with premium pads I'd also go with new premium rotors like you said.

The rusty bit though... that's just dishonest. Many rotors don't have a protective coating so they always rust except where the pads keep the metal shiny clean. Even the better ones with a protective coating (must be very very heat resistant) will rust at the edge of the rub band. The amount of metal lost to rust is miniscule and does not affect stopping ability. Even the rub band gets surface rust if it sits a while in the rain, but it rubs off in the first nanosecond after you apply the brakes.

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

I agree, sorta. I'd pull a front and rear wheel off and just do a quick inspection of the pads before I write it off completely. Not sure if you're the first owner or not, and whether you or the previous owner if there is one did any towing.

If the pads look to be about a half inch thick or more, you're good for a while longer. If they have less than 3/8's of an inch left, then I'd probably throw some new pads in there. And I'd probably turn the rotors if they had any deep grooves in them.

As for brands, the general consensus here is that the OEM pads are very good pads, so I'd just order them online and throw 'em in! You can also buy new rotors if you like, not sure how much the oem rotors are. If they aren't more than twice the cost of turning the originals, I'd buy them too.

Brake jobs really aren't hard at all, and they don't really require any fancy tools either! AFAIK, a socket set, some screwdrivers and a little brake grease for the backs of the pads, and you can do this in an afternoon in your garage! The repair manuals are floating around online in pdf format, get that, read up on it and get r done!

 

[psa5555]

Thanks for the replies guys! I think I'll pull them off and have a look for sure.... I'm the original owner and it's basically my wife's daily driver. I'm pretty comfortable with brakes, ball joints and wheel bearings, etc. so I'll definitely tackle the job when the time comes... I've got a feeling I'm good till spring anyways, but I'll make sure. I'll tell my wife to listen for the warning indicators in the mean time...

I tend to avoid the Stealerships at all costs, but where is was close to off warranty I thought I'd give them a shot as this was there first time looking at the truck. Between myself and a terrific garage just down the road (with a hockey buddy of mine, who's a tech) I don't tend to take my trucks too far.

Much appreciated! If there is anything interesting in the brake dept. I'll post back!

 

[03_4x4Runner]

Thanks for the replies guys! I think I'll pull them off and have a look for sure.... I'm the original owner and it's basically my wife's daily driver. I'm pretty comfortable with brakes, ball joints and wheel bearings, etc. so I'll definitely tackle the job when the time comes... I've got a feeling I'm good till spring anyways, but I'll make sure. I'll tell my wife to listen for the warning indicators in the mean time...

I tend to avoid the Stealerships at all costs, but where is was close to off warranty I thought I'd give them a shot as this was there first time looking at the truck. Between myself and a terrific garage just down the road (with a hockey buddy of mine, who's a tech) I don't tend to take my trucks too far.

Much appreciated! If there is anything interesting in the brake dept. I'll post back!

I always thought brake pads were a wear item and not covered by warranty unless defective.

 

[Lava rocks]

Op . Which model Akebono's ASP or ACT were u planning to install ?

 

[nb rob]

FWIW, I get my rotors at wood motors in Fredericton (I haven't replaced my toyota rotors yet). Their prices are very good

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=98554]psa5555[/MENTION]

I'll be honest, I don't really care too much about how fast the pads wear out unless they wear out unevenly/show signs of overheating (that could indicate an issue like a sticking caliper, ect.) That's mostly because I've seen guys wear brand new pads down to half in less than 15k and others that have pads that are still 3/4 of material left at 30k. Pad life under nominal operating conditions (meaning no issues with the braking system itself) is gong to be subject mainly to conditions and driver's habits (i.e. driving aggressively, dragging the brakes, ect.)

So what did the dealership qualify "3/4 of the way worn" as?

Brand new front brake pads for your 5th gen start around 11~12mm, minimum replacement specification is 1mm, rear brakes start at about 10mm and call for 1mm minimum as well. Honestly, I recommend them at about 2~3mm; I would not feel comfortable in my own personal vehicle running brakes lower than about 3mm. The reason I don't feel comfortable waiting until 1mm is because that is literally a sliver of brake pad left, the heat transfer and soaking characteristics are very exaggerated with such a little amount and you can easily start developing "hot spots" from over heating the brakes at such low pad measurements. Not to mention 1mm is not much left until you've hit the metal backing plate, once you start getting in that low 2~3mm range you'd be surprised how fast those pads can run out/glaze up under normal braking.

Which means your brakes in the front should be about 4mm-ish and about 3mm in the rear. Honestly if you brought the vehicle in to my dealership I would perhaps make a note on your multi-point saying "recommend replace front and rear brake pads in near future." As for turning the rotors, that depends on how much meat is left on the rotor an the condition of the rotor itself. Being up by Maine I imagine those rotors are probably severely rusted, cleaning them up and turning them is probably not worth the dealership's time vs. recommending new rotors. I usually will give a customer their minimum "Turn-to" specifications (the minimum thickness a rotor can be, this includes if you resurface it) as well as their actual specifications.

i.e. Front Rotor Turn-to is 29mm & Rear Rotor Turn-to is 16mm on your vehicle. If I wrote that the front rotors were at 29.4mm & the rears were at 16.2mm I would recommend that you purchase new rotors; after cutting them (usually I cut about .2~.4mm for a normal rotor) they would be at or below the minimum specifications, not to mention I would not feel comfortable putting such borderline rotors back on a vehicle after resurfacing (I like to have a .5~1.0mm buffer after resurfacing for a customer since they might not be checked again for another 30k or more depending on how long the brake pads last.)

~

If the pads are 3mm or lower, I'd recommend going ahead and getting them replaced. If the rotors are still within specification, having them cleaned and resurfaced may not be a bad idea; but I'd make that judgement after looking at the measurements and inspecting what they consider "very rusty" first.

 

[Antman]

I'm at 89K, original pads and rotors. Stops straight and true every time, no pulses.

When they (finally!) hit the wear indicator I'm gonna buy my 4Runner a tank of Premium to celebrate and get factory replacement parts.:trophy:

 

[psa5555]

Op . Which model Akebono's ASP or ACT were u planning to install ?

Akebono ACT976 for the Front. Akebono ACT606 for the Rear.

FWIW, I get my rotors at wood motors in Fredericton (I haven't replaced my toyota rotors yet). Their prices are very good

Thanks! I'll check them out!

Thanks for all the specs BlackWorksInc! and everybody for all the info...

 

[1engineer]

Akebono ACT976 for the Front. Akebono ACT606 for the Rear.



Thanks! I'll check them out!

Thanks for all the specs BlackWorksInc! and everybody for all the info...

So far it seems the average is around 70K miles on the OEM brake components before they need replacing. Use that as a rule of thumb.

 

[philsey]

There is nothing better than being well-informed. [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] 's thread above contains good info.

For any non-expert dealing with brake recommendations, you can now ask for pad and rotor thickness measurements.

Me, I intend to ask for measurements before inspection, rather than after.

 

[psa5555]

There is nothing better than being well-informed. [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] 's thread above contains good info.

For any non-expert dealing with brake recommendations, you can now ask for pad and rotor thickness measurements.

Me, I intend to ask for measurements before inspection, rather than after.

Absolutely! 100% agree with your statements! Thats why I came here.

 

[1engineer]

Me, I intend to ask for measurements before inspection, rather than after.

hmmm....

 

[4RnR Grl]

Me, I intend to ask for measurements before inspection, rather than after.

The after measurement is where it's at.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
That is what she said...... ahem.

:wow:

 

[trdsport]

[MENTION=98554]psa5555[/MENTION]

.....start at about 10mm and call for 1mm minimum as well. Honestly, I recommend them at about 2~3mm; I would not feel comfortable in my own personal vehicle running brakes lower than about 3mm. The reason I don't feel comfortable waiting until 1mm is because that is literally a sliver of brake pad left, the heat s in the front should be about 4mm-ish and about actual specifications.

i.e. Front Rotor Turn-to is 29mm & Rear Rotor Turn-to is 16mm on your vehicle. If I wrote that the front rotors were at 29.4mm & the rears were at 16.2mm I would recommend that you purchase new rotors; after cutting them (usually I cut about .2~.4mm for a normal rotor) they would be at or below the minimum specifications, not to mention I would not feel comfortable putting such borderline rotors back on a vehicle after resurfacing (I like to have a .5~1.0mm buffer after resurfacing for a customer since they might not be checked again for another 30k or more depending on how long the brake pads last.)
... and inspecting what they consider "very rusty" first.

Hope 4th gen specs for rotors are more or less the same...GOOD INFO. Thanks.