Broken Bilstein 5100 FrontS

[DavisTN]

This happened last Thursday on my way into my elk hunting base camp. The driver side went, but I was already half-way in on an 8.5 mile ride up a dirt road. I continued on, and the passenger side went shortly thereafter. I contacted Bilstein regarding their warranty, and they do not seem willing to help.

I had them at the 1.75" setting, I believe, and I installed new FJ springs when the shocks were installed 26,000 +/- miles back. According to Bilstein after they looked at my pictures:

"Theoretically the coils should interchange and at stock ride height you should not have an issue. It is pretty common in the Toyota world to use FJ springs on 4th and 5th generation 4runners to get 1” of lift just swapping the assembly which seems to work but now you mix in pre-load from a 5100 series shock, this is what makes it not ok the FJ tensile strength is more robust than that of the 4runner, this is why it is critical to use the OE springs to the vehicle. I have included a photo of the FJ paint coded spring in the heaviest tensile strength they offered and from a glance of the driver spring yours still appears to have additional coil wraps than that of the OE FJ spring. The increased wire diameter/increase in rate over time will lead to this issue."

Bottom line... I would suggest against anything above the stock ride height setting if you're going to do this setup with FJ Springs. It's a miracle the thing stayed somewhat together while I limped it back out 8.5 miles and then drove on streets 30+ miles to get her home. Figured this information would be useful to somebody out there. Nothing like swapping in new suspension when you should have been chasing elk.

 

[Falcon3]

Bummer! Glad you’re ok. So is bilstein going to replace under warranty or are they denying due to the FJ springs? Anybody care to look up the 5100 application fine print? Theoretically using an FJ sprIng which is barely longer than a V8 spring and barely higher in spring rate at the 1.75” mark should result in less stress on the shock than say... an OME 885 due to the properties of cool spring compression and rate. So they should cover you, and them saying you were using it in an incorrect application is bull.

 

[MattAK]

Yikes. Good you made it out ok. Can't imagine that driving out like that was good to the other suspension components down there. Not the first time I've read about Bilstein denying warranty, making me think about staying away from them this time even though I like the ride of the 5100's.

 

[blackoutt]

Isn't the FJ 5100 the same part number? But yeah they have been known to deny warranty if you are even off pavement once. Time to upgrade to a more premium coilover!

 

[Falcon3]

Isn't the FJ 5100 the same part number? But yeah they have been known to deny warranty if you are even off pavement once. Time to upgrade to a more premium coilover!

You are correct! OP Give bilstein a call and tell them this. The part for 1st gen FJ and 4th gen 4runner are both 24-239370. Bilsteins own website says this. It also lists that this part number for the FJ is “ride height adjustable” meaning using this shock with the FJ coils and them set at 1.75” is no problem (according to their own literature).

give Em hell! Also thanks for posting this, Bilsteins response is certainly making me consider taking my money to OME or Dobinsons. I’ve had great customer service with them.

 

[Morphyne]

Tell them dobinsons makes a much beefier shock and they should be ashamed of such a failure

 

[DavisTN]

I confirmed with the warranty tech I've been speaking with that this IS the same shock/part # used for the '07-'10 FJ's. His point about the spring rate or "tensile strength" is moot. The same shock would be used with OEM springs on a FJ, and there's no way the resting or dynamic difference in weight is so significant as to cause this much more of a failure on a V8 runner. Douchery.

At this point, the guy is offering "suggestions" on how to get longer life out of them. I believe I'll save my pennies and go with Icon or King. It currently looks funny as hell riding stock in the front and 3" +/- in the rear, but the AutoZone pre-assembled struts saved me install time and got me back in the elk woods without breaking. I did have the front DayStar spacers that I never installed, but I lost one of the stud extenders... The guy at the Zone said he'd refund me in full and let me return their assemblies once Bilstein sent me my warranty'd replacements. Not very confident that either will be happening.

Whoever's reading, let me know if you have an angle on a pair of front assemblies for a deal. I have another baby on the way in December, so I can't rationalize dropping serious dime on the rig right after I just re-upped on some pricey hunting gear. It will be much appreciated!

 

[DavisTN]

Word for word conversations with "Junior Africa" from Bilstein:

My initial correspondence: I was on the way to my elk camp for the final 11 days of archery season for backcountry hunting when BOTH of my front struts failed. The driver side failed followed shortly after by the passenger side on a maintained, dirt road. These were installed in 2014 and have... had... 30,000 +/- miles on them. I had to limp out, delaying my hunt, and replace with AutoZone brand struts, which handled the roads perfectly fine in and out.

I still have 5100's on the rear. Those will be coming off as soon as I find suitable replacements and have time to deal with this. The front failure resulted in the failure of several other components on my 4Runner. I'll now have to rebuild UCA's/LCA/s, replace tie rod ends, and replace sway bar/links, at minimum.



Bilstein: Hello Chris,

Sorry you have had an issue with your shocks, a quick diagnosis from the photos show the shock is not being used with the OEM coil the way it is intended. Using the shock with a heavy spring in conjuction with spring pre-load will lead to this failure.

I have included a photo of a 5100 with the OEM coil beside yours with the hevier tenisle strength spring. The seat looks to be different than the one we supply as well. For refrence this shock is intended to lift the 4runner 2.5” over stock with all the OEM components. From the looks of the photos the UCA (not visable) the LCA, sway bar link or outer tie rod nor the CV took on any damage. Looks like a shock replacement and alignemnt will take care of the issue.

You are welcome to send a copy of the purchase reciept to see if we can further investigate the issue. If the shock was purchased in conjustion with the aftermarket coil spring you can reach ou to your place of purchase to see if they can address warranty replacements.

We are happy to assist with any further questions or concerns.

Kind Regards,
Junior Africa
Technical & Warranty Support Expert

Me: Junior,

The springs/coils in use are OEM FJ Cruiser springs, and these were listed as being compatible with these particular 5100 shocks. Are they not interchangeable with both the 4th gen 4Runner and '07-'10 FJ Cruiser? The seats that came with the shocks were the one's used. the "top hat" is also OEM.

There was no damage to metal portions of the LCA/UCA's, but they are making a significant amount of noise, now. I assume this will require disassembly and installation of new bushings. One of the sway bar links is bent. I'll try to find the original purchase receipt, but I am quite sure it was thrown away as I've moved twice since installation. The shocks were installed new on this vehicle; the springs were also purchased new (separately) when installed.

Thank you,

Chris Davis
Pitkin County, Procurement

They then responded with the previously posted comments.

 

[Falcon3]

Yup total bull. He didn’t address that you used the same part number with a stock spring that bilstein themselves say will work. He also said their 5100s come with top hats, which they don’t. His explanation has no basis in reality, as you’ve already said. Get a supervisor, not this clown.

 

[DavisTN]

Yup total bull. He didn’t address that you used the same part number with a stock spring that bilstein themselves say will work. He also said their 5100s come with top hats, which they don’t. His explanation has no basis in reality, as you’ve already said. Get a supervisor, not this clown.

We shall see...

to Junior.Africa, Michael.Ritchie, John.Trexler, Lisa.Ciacci

Junior,

It doesn't help. The shocks are both broken sitting in my backyard. These are listed, per your website, as being functional in either application. The curb weights, respectively, for the FJ vs 2003 4runner are as follows:

FJ: 4,079 - 4,343 lbs
4Runner: 4,025 - 4,450 lbs

I don't believe there is enough weight or design difference to cause this kind of wear regardless of which OEM spring was in use.

Would you be replacing these under warranty if the same setup were installed on an FJ Cruiser?
Are you going to send me replacement units?
How can you explain an AutoZone (Monroe?) branded strut being of higher quality than your product?
Why should anybody purchase a warranted product from you if it means nothing when push comes to shove?

Finally, I am a very active member on Toyota-4Runner.org. I can go one of two ways in posting the results of this experience. Keep that in mind.

Thanks,

Chris Davis
Pitkin County, Procurement

 

[gm350reratliff]

That sucks it let you down but I suspect the C-clip wasn't fully seated which lead to the failure. I ran 5100's for about 90k miles with FJ springs at the 3rd notch and I beat on it pretty good, never had a failure. Currently, I'm running the 6112's with 700# King springs and I'm still beating on it with a heavy steel bumper and winch.

I was a little skeptical of the C-clip for this very reason at first but I haven't had any issues with them.

 

[gfluff]

Post more pics of the busted shocks. Let’s see what we can see...

 

[Inv4drZm]

The only explanation I have as to why they both broke, this might already be obvious to some, but I suspect that after the 1st one broke the other one was doing all the work for the front end and broke thereafter. So really the autopsy needs to be performed on the first one that broke, the driver's side like you mentioned.

 

[DavisTN]

That sucks it let you down but I suspect the C-clip wasn't fully seated which lead to the failure. I ran 5100's for about 90k miles with FJ springs at the 3rd notch and I beat on it pretty good, never had a failure. Currently, I'm running the 6112's with 700# King springs and I'm still beating on it with a heavy steel bumper and winch.

I was a little skeptical of the C-clip for this very reason at first but I haven't had any issues with them.

C-clips were fully seated. I was skeptical, also, so I made doubly sure that they were seated properly when I installed them.

I'll get more detailed pictures of both sides off of the vehicle when I get home this evening.

Inv4drZm - This is exactly what I assume happened. They both buckled outward; luckily, the passenger side sheered above the weld which held the broken mount torn off inside of the shock body. I didn't have time to investigate all other components as I was trying to get back into the woods, but I know it's making a hell of a lot of noise that it wasn't before. Bilstein offers that this is due to age and wear of my LCA/UCA bushings. Yep, age and wear incurred because of the shocks breaking.

 

[gm350reratliff]

That's crazy. Definitely BS that Bilstein won't cover it. I would go with either Icon, King or OME this time.

 

[blackoutt]

Don't forget the dobinson route for a budget friendly alternative too!

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

 

[Terminator03]

Wow, I’ll definitely be following this for the outcome! I was considering a set of these for the front of mine next spring. May have to rethink that...

 

[truckhigh]

glad you made it out okay. Im wondering if the lower bushing seized and made the shot pivot at an angle? was there any problems with the lower bushing or was there any rust on the shear? Did you buy them used because i have seen this happen on spacer lifts maybe the guy had spacers that overextended the shock?

I had 5100's on the heaviest moogs and didn't have a problem. But, I put 5100's on a lot of my friends rigs thats why I ask. Im on 6112 and they are much beefier.

that front bumper looks good and beefy maybe it couldn't handle the extra weight? looks good from the side shot. don't show the bumper, V8 or you changed the spring and take it to who you bought it from.

 

[DavisTN]

glad you made it out okay. Im wondering if the lower bushing seized and made the shot pivot at an angle? was there any problems with the lower bushing or was there any rust on the shear? Did you buy them used because i have seen this happen on spacer lifts maybe the guy had spacers that overextended the shock?

I had 5100's on the heaviest moogs and didn't have a problem. But, I put 5100's on a lot of my friends rigs thats why I ask. Im on 6112 and they are much beefier.

that front bumper looks good and beefy maybe it couldn't handle the extra weight? looks good from the side shot. don't show the bumper, V8 or you changed the spring and take it to who you bought it from.

Good thoughts, but fortunately, nothing was seized up. I checked to see if there was any indication of an aged crack that could have led to the failure, but it looks like it all just happened. The road I was on is a little sketchy, but nothing I haven't done before. This was my 3rd or 4th time running the road.

There were never spacers run on the shocks. I bought the shocks and coils new. Now that you mention Moog, I think I actually did get the Moog FJ coils from RockAuto instead of picking up take-offs.

Regarding the bumper - I made it to be as beefy but light as possible (note the aluminum filler plates). Said and done, it might weigh 50-60 lbs? I usually carry more beer than that to camping trips. Don't think that was the issue. Can't take it back to anybody; I installed the lift. I'm still going back and forth with Bilstein. I warned them that I'd post the results here and anywhere else people'd listen. They said to make sure to post everything so they "get a fair shake" ? I'll post the full conversation later today. Filled with references to irrelevant data and skirting questions that I asked.

 

[Runn4est]

This is worrisome as I am planning my Red Clay Rally mods and was really hoping not to be compelled to buy the toytec boss 2.5s...If you weren't so far, I'd pull mine and sell them to you cheaper.