So I just started my 4Runner build and I'm stuck trying to decide something. I'm trying to build this thing to handle ANYTHING from desert to rock crawling to trails. What I'm torn on is an idea I had for the front suspension/tires. I just ordered a Solo Motorsports 14" long travel kit. The kit increases track width 7" (3.5" per side) and raises the truck about 3.5" I was thinking about combining it with a drop bracket from a Tacoma to get another 2" of lift and then doing a 2" body lift to get 7.5" total so I can clear 37's instead of 35's. Since I'm going to be running fiberglass front and rear, I'm not worried about rubbing. Also before anyone says anything about ground clearance (yes I'm talking to you guys who hate drop bracket lifts) by running a drop bracket to allow bigger tires I'm actually gaining clearance not losing it. I just have never seen this type of setup done on a 4Runner so I wanted everyone's opinion. There was a company Magherty's Off Road that made a combo drop bracket lift /long travel for a Silverado and it seemed to work well. If this was going to be strictly a desert rig I wouldn't be bothering I'm just thinking the bigger tires will help in the rocks. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!
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JayRolla
New member
Thats a beast mode kit you got there!!
Seems like you would be raising COG a lot to run those 37's. You can get away with running 37's on a SAS setup with 4" total lift. You will need to tub the wheel well to clear the tires. But this will be needed either way.
If you plan to do more desert dune jumping then I guess you can lift away. But the goal is to get full travel with the largest tire and least amount of lift possible.
You're right, I will be raising the cg quite a bit. But it shouldn't affect the handling too much considering with the tires and the LT, I'll also be increasing the overall track width by about 10". That's my thought anyway. Most guys with tacomas with similar kits (camburg or total chaos) run 33's so I know 37's would be a stretch but it would be badass if I can pull it off!
JayRolla
New member
It can be done. Like I said Ive seen full travel solid axle on 37's with 4"total lift.
I think you setup would be pretty bad ass. I looked that kit up and I'm super Jelly.
Only issue I see with the COG is when you rock crawling. But like you said with a wider track you may be okay.
I would be scared to scrape those pretty parts on rocks. I would keep it on the dunes!
IBallEngineer
New member
Bigger tires DO help in the rocks.
My concern with "drop bracket" concept is the driveshaft angle on the front diff, how do you account for that change? Of course maybe you are only using spacers on the coilovers? Need more info on that, if you are dropping the lower control arm pivot points, what happens to the uppers?
The silverado kits I've seen wouldn't survive rock crawling, they seem more like big hat no cattle kits to me. I had one on a 92 Silverado, in 92, it broke, I sh%$ t canned it.
:noidea:
My concern with "drop bracket" concept is the driveshaft angle on the front diff, how do you account for that change? Of course maybe you are only using spacers on the coilovers? Need more info on that, if you are dropping the lower control arm pivot points, what happens to the uppers?
The silverado kits I've seen wouldn't survive rock crawling, they seem more like big hat no cattle kits to me. I had one on a 92 Silverado, in 92, it broke, I sh%$ t canned it.
:noidea:
I don't think the front driveshaft angle is an issue with most drop brackets. As far as the upper arms, they stay at the same height. I'd be extending the tops of the knuckles so the overall suspension geometry doesn't change. If do this, when I order my shocks from kings I'm simply going to get custom extended rod ends to compensate for the height difference. Should allow more room for the CV's as well. I've heard a lot of people, like yourself, bring up that drop brackets wouldn't last or will break. Where is the weak point? Is it just flexing in the bracket itself? Would welding it in place or reinforcing it eliminate this?
IBallEngineer
New member
Oh yeah, I remember now. I did one on a "silverado" that had like a 6" spacer on the upper ball joint. Then the tire/wheel didn't clear so we had to use 2" spacers. I don't like that design at all.
I think the design of the kits is just not for actual wheeling, more for looks/tire clearance. Maybe you could design build and market the first 3rd gen drop bracket kit that is off road worthy?
Sean K.
New member
Out of curiosity....how much uptravel did it have?...and are you counting the tires in the lift equation?
I figured the lowest I could get was 20" frame height under the doors on 37's....but that only gave about 3" of uptravel....and at 20" it was 2" of "lift" and 2.5" of tire height.
Consequently, I'm going to shoot for 22" frame height (at street pressure) to hopefully get 5+" of uptravel.
JayRolla
New member
It was Scotts old rig from Addicted offroad. He mentioned how it only had a 4" total suspension lift on the 37's for a low COG. You can see from the pictures not much lift on the rig. Not sure on the up travel but from what he said it performed great offroad.
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Sean K.
New member
Thanks for the info. Wonder if he meant 4" of lift and then 2.5" of height from the 37s vs. factory 265s. That would make sense as a 22" frame rail height equates to exactly that.
Good looking 4Runner for sure. Maybe Scott will see this and chime in on the specs....or I can hit him up on Pirate; he responded to my thread over there on 3 vs. 4 links for the front of the 4Runner.
Thanks again.
JayRolla
New member
The thread he mentioned it was a thread about how much lift is needed for 35's and people questioning COG. He chimed in stating he only had 4" suspension lift. I never heard of someone accounting for tire lift when mentioning suspension.
That being said here are the specs. He sold it long time back but recently posted that the truck will be for sale again.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/72928-addicted-offroads-2000-4runner-linked-locked.html
Sean K.
New member
Ya, most people don't take the tire into account....but if your primary concern is overall height, you have to factor it in.
Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.
Twisted Sid
Member
So, what are your plans for the rear? What are you doing for the rear suspension? If you are increasing the front track width 10'' overall, how do you plan on making the rear match? How are you going to clearance the rear fender opening and rear doors to fit the 37s?
Seems like a lot of work and money for the extra 1'' of ground clearance over 35s. I would loose the the 37s and the bracket lift. If you are going to be doing desert go fast stuff, you want to be as low as possible to still clear the tires at full stuff. Things can go south REAL fast when going through the rough stuff at speed and you get a little sideways. The lower the COG, the better off you are.
Seems like a lot of work and money for the extra 1'' of ground clearance over 35s. I would loose the the 37s and the bracket lift. If you are going to be doing desert go fast stuff, you want to be as low as possible to still clear the tires at full stuff. Things can go south REAL fast when going through the rough stuff at speed and you get a little sideways. The lower the COG, the better off you are.
Twisted, all good questions. The plan in the rear I'm completely re-designing the 4-link with 48" lowers, running a canteleiver coil-over setup I had designed for my Tundra to achieve somewhere around 25" of travel. I've got it all done in CAD and I think I have it tweaked enough to where the spring rates won't be too progressive. As far as width, I was going to run either a wider Tacoma/Tundra rear axle and eventually maybe a custom housing. Like I said before, I have to do custom fiberglass anyway so I'm not worried about them fitting. I plan on modifying some older Tacoma bedsides to work and underneath, I'm going to cut the quarters all the way to the door line to allow as much up travel as possible.
I don't know what it is, but from my experience off-road, especially down in Moab where I'll be spending a lot of time, that 2" of tire size makes a noticeable difference. I actually took a jeep down there yesterday with a 6" lift and 37's and it was way more capable than the previous jeep I drove there with a 4.5" lift and 35's. Plus on a few of the trails we did like Golden Spike and Gold Bar Rim (rated 7 on a 1-8 difficulty scale) the extra center clearance made the big ledges easier to navigate.
BTW I appreciate everyone's feedback, I want to hear any skepticism or concerns since once I cut the frame to install/make a drop bracket there it's not easy to go back.
I don't know what it is, but from my experience off-road, especially down in Moab where I'll be spending a lot of time, that 2" of tire size makes a noticeable difference. I actually took a jeep down there yesterday with a 6" lift and 37's and it was way more capable than the previous jeep I drove there with a 4.5" lift and 35's. Plus on a few of the trails we did like Golden Spike and Gold Bar Rim (rated 7 on a 1-8 difficulty scale) the extra center clearance made the big ledges easier to navigate.
BTW I appreciate everyone's feedback, I want to hear any skepticism or concerns since once I cut the frame to install/make a drop bracket there it's not easy to go back.
Roc Doc
New member
$.02's
Take a stock rig and try and go fast in the desert and it sucks, or take it to Moab and it sucks.
Now take a built SA Rock crawler to Moab and have a blast, it will still go faster in the open desert if built right, and much faster if it's really built right. (Think solid axle Ultra-4 rigs).
Take a stock IFS and build it long travel and it will haul ass in the desert and with the larger tires and with locking diffs it will do better in the rocks vs' a stocker, but it's going to suffer compared to even a mildly built SA rig.
Pick your poison.
Me? I have had the hard core SA rigs, but I'm building a mid-travel IFS Runner for street, fast dirt roading, and the ability to lock the differentials and with skill do some mild rock crawling.
Take a stock rig and try and go fast in the desert and it sucks, or take it to Moab and it sucks.
Now take a built SA Rock crawler to Moab and have a blast, it will still go faster in the open desert if built right, and much faster if it's really built right. (Think solid axle Ultra-4 rigs).
Take a stock IFS and build it long travel and it will haul ass in the desert and with the larger tires and with locking diffs it will do better in the rocks vs' a stocker, but it's going to suffer compared to even a mildly built SA rig.
Pick your poison.
Me? I have had the hard core SA rigs, but I'm building a mid-travel IFS Runner for street, fast dirt roading, and the ability to lock the differentials and with skill do some mild rock crawling.
