buying new 2007

[r32]

Here's what the dealer got back to me on. He offered this price after some back and forth:

EDIT: He says OTD pricing includes Tax+License Fees, etc.

OTD (Out the door): $31,888.14 or 564.80/month for 60 (0%). I can't afford to pay it all up front, so I'm going to have to finance some of it.

Is this typical that overall pricing for full payment up front is lower than the end cost of making payments over 60 months?

I dont get why he can't come down on monthly payment so it matches overall price unless it's for cost over time (inflation).

So if I pay up front: $31,888k
And if I pay by month: $33,888k

Actual invoice is showing as $30,850k on Edmunds.com

 

[tonybaloney]

i assume those are the prices including TTL. if so, i think the $31,888 is a good deal. I am not so sure if the 33,888 is a good deal though.

i think it's typical that you get a better deal if you pay everything up front due to the inflation and dealer cash flow and etc...

 

[toto]

The rebate deal is probably $2000 cash OR 0% financing, but not both. That's the only way the sum of the payments could be that much more than the cash price if the interest rate is really 0%.

Does your OTD price include taxes, title, etc.? If so, what's the price of the truck before all that? It better include all that stuff, or it sounds like you're over $1000 invoice even after the cash rebate, and that's very bad. If the invoice is $30,850 on Edmunds, then you should be around $31,000 before the rebate, or $29,000 after the rebate before tax, title, etc.

 

[r32]

Yes that includes Tax+License. Good point.

The 31,888 does sound good to me too, but unfortunately I am not rolling in that kind of dough, so I gotta lay down about 60% and pay the rest off.

 

[tonybaloney]

if that's the case, maybe you can talk to the dealer and let them know you are only financing 40% of the var value so they can lower the total payout from 33,888 to something less...

 

[TRBenj]

Its still tough to say if youre getting a good deal. Do us a favor and list out the details. It would be helpful to know:

Model, trim
4wd/2wd
options (not packages, but individual options)
sales tax % in your state
title and license fees (these vary by dealership)
rebates in your area (sounds like $2k cash or 0% financing)

Im assuming that youre not trading a car in?

I can guarantee you one thing- if youre putting down 40%, you will be FAR better off taking the cash rebate instead of the low APR.

Edit: just noticed that you listed the Edmunds invoice. Heres roughly how the numbers should work.

Invoice: $30850
subtract $2k rebate = $28850
+ sales tax (assume 7%) = $30,869
+ title and licensing fees (assume $300) = $31,169

So, OTD price would be $31,169. That will vary depending on your sales tax %, and the title/licensing fees (the dealerships I dealt with ranged from $200-300). Like I mentioned earlier, the Edmunds invoice price does not take into account a few legitimate fees (like regional advertising), so I think the actual invoice price is ~$300 higher (judging by my experience). I was still able to negotiate a price $100 lower than Edmunds (before the rebate), so keep working them.

 

[Zmtking]

You really need to establish the sales price prior to tax, title, licence fees. This amount should be (as someone stated before) in the +/- $500.00 range. You can like I did use the rebate amount to determine this since it's free money, or like a discount.

Your going to pay for tax, title, and license anyway, and typically is included in the finance amount. Your rebate if you get one will then be deducted along with any down payment to determine the actual finance amount. The rebate is applied after because you have to pay taxes...on the amount before rebate. You can't get a rebate for anything without first paying the full or asking price first.

Bottom line is if you can get the dealer to agree to a sales price that is in the $500.00 range or lower than invoice including rebate you did just fine. You just have to remember that the rebate will be applied after tax, title, and license. So the sales price on the contract minus the rebate amount should be the number your after to determine if your in the invoice zone.

I'm sorry I not all that articulate.

 

[TRBenj]

Yikes misinformation.

Your rebate if you get one will then be deducted along with any down payment to determine the actual finance amount. The rebate is applied after because you have to pay taxes...on the amount before rebate. You can't get a rebate for anything without first paying the full or asking price first.

Wrong. The rebate is applied to the negotiated price. You dont pay taxes on it. You will have to sign a form that allows the dealer to collect the manufacturers rebate at the time of the sale.

Originally posted by Zmtking
Bottom line is if you can get the dealer to agree to a sales price that is in the $500.00 range or lower than invoice including rebate you did just fine.

Wrong again. DO NOT take the rebate or sales tax into account until you reach a negotiated price based on the invoice. While the rebate and TTL *might* come close to canceling each other out in the end, this is completely dependant on the exact rebate amount, the exact title/licensing fees, and the sales tax % in your state. By combining all these things up front you only confuse yourself and give the dealer room to play tricks. Keep everything seperate and tally it all at the end.

 

[Zmtking]

I think you need to re-read what I wrote.

 

[vando45]

It is my understanding that you have to pay sales tax on the rebate amount, at least that's what my salesman told me - and you know they ALWAYS tell the truth!

 

[TRBenj]

I think you need to re-read what I wrote.

I read it several times. The only thing that was correct was this:

You really need to establish the sales price prior to tax, title, licence fees.

Everything else you stated contradicted that and made no sense at all.

Be wary of listening to car salesmen. Many are VERY uninformed. While I suppose it is technically possible that you could pay the full sales amount, then have Toyota send you a rebate check, Ive never actually heard of anyone doing that. The common practice is to subtract the rebate from the negotiated price, then sign the rebate over to the dealer. You avoid some sales tax and a lot of hassle that way.

 

[Zmtking]

I'm sorry your misunderstanding me. I'm sure I have it right, but not conveying it in a manner thats understood. You have a sales price, that should be the most important number, and the first number to agree to. Your tax, title, and license...fees are based off of this number. Your rebate if there is one, and any downpayment is then applied (deducted) to determine the out the door price, or the amount to finance. Did that make sense, or do I have it wrong.

 

[J.A.]

The way ZMTKing described the rebate process is how it worked for me.

I put a deposit down during the process of special ordering the vehicle at the point when the vehicle went into allocation type status. At that point the rebate was not factored in (before TTL) as the rebate the customer gets is that in which is in effect at the time of final payment not at the time of deposit. They can be and for me were different.

Of course It is more beneficial to the customer the way TRBenj describes it and I did argue for that but gave up. I didnt realize it was even possible at the time to actually get the rebate factored into the price before the tax calc, perhaps that is only possible if your not doing a special order?

 

[Zmtking]

I guess I misunderstood TRBenj too as I didn't think that was what he was saying. I'm sure it's from misunderstanding my previous post.

 

[Zmtking]

I also didn't think it was possible for the rebate to be applied prior to tax...at least not in CA, otherwise it's not a rebate, just a discount. Rebates are applied after the purchase, in the case of car buying after tax, title...at least that's how I understand it.

 

[Zmtking]

So it's 30 posts for a promotion, lol I was wondering about that.

 

[TRBenj]

Originally posted by J.A.
I put a deposit down during the process of special ordering the vehicle at the point when the vehicle went into allocation type status. At that point the rebate was not factored in (before TTL) as the rebate the customer gets is that in which is in effect at the time of final payment not at the time of deposit. They can be and for me were different.

That is correct- my special order was handled the same way. The rebate that is applied is the one in effect at the time of delivery.

In my case, the rebate was still applied before the taxes, which determined the final sales amount. The rebate was then signed over to the dealer when doing the final paperwork (so they could collect it from Toyota). My understanding is that is the common practice- though I suppose that can vary in some states.

Sorry if that wasnt clear.

 

[Zmtking]

I think I know where the confusion is coming from. There are really two types of rebates. Factory to Dealer rebates, which I think is what you guys got, and could be applied to determine the sales price, and customer cash back which is what I got, and was applied as money down after taxes...

 

[TRBenj]

I think I know where the confusion is coming from. There are really two types of rebates. Factory to Dealer rebates, which I think is what you guys got, and could be applied to determine the sales price, and customer cash back which is what I got, and was applied as money down after taxes...

Nope, no confusion. The dealer doesnt necessarily have to tell you about any factory-to-dealer incentives, but they usually will. Factory-to-customer rebates will never be hidden, because you'll have to sign the rebate over to the dealer for the rebate to be figured into the final sales price. Either way, the common practice is to have the rebate deducted from the sales price before applying sales tax- according to every piece of literature Ive read on the subject and in my personal experience, that is.

 

[Zmtking]

That's interesting. I reviewed my contract this morning, and I only gave them $4500 down, but my down payment on the contract is for 6K which obviously included the $1500 cash back. I don't recall signing anything in this regard. So maybe I'm using rebate in the wrong context and should have referred to it as cash back instead. Either way I recieved 3K off sticker then an additional $1500 added to my down payment courtesy of either the dealer or Toyota.