Calling out the sub-box gods

[GottaBeTRD]

So I need some input....
I'm building a cargo drawer system and I want to relocate my woofer. I want to make it blend in with the back when i build this. I found these box's (i may make my own) but its called a down-firing Sub box, and they like this:

I'll leave a space out of the cargo box to place it here

FYI I'm not planning on having the full drawers, I'll just make them 24 something inches and have the back section open up with a lid and hinges.

My concern is the Sub box wont really be ported because it will be so close to the cargo box. What will this do to the sound quality of the woofer?

 

[SV_Dude]

If you want sound quality then you want a sealed box. A ported box is designed for sound pressure, the big boom boom you hear with a ported box. A sealed box will give you a cleaner more responsive sub. All of the sound competition guys who compete in SQL (sound quality league) used sealed boxes. I have 2 sealed boxes in my tundra (search this forum for: subs in the floor) for 2 12" subs and I love the way they sound. They have a very quick responsive and crisp sound.

Just make sure that you build the sealed enclosure within the specs of the sub. Normally for a sealed enclosure you'll want between .75 and 1.25 cubic feet but that largely depends on the sub being used.

 

[Qyota]

^ funny stuff there. Vented enclosures can sound every bit as good as sealed alignments. Depends on the parameters of the driver, the environment, available power, listening preferences, and a lot of other factors.

And last I knew, SQL stood for a combination of SQ and SPL. Which is to say that the design is intended to provide both high sound quality and also get loud.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the plan. Looks good to me! I'm in the process of putting together my system. See the attached pic.

 

[SV_Dude]

There are two leagues for sound competition. SQL is Sound Quality and SPL is Sound Pressure Level. SPL is pretty much a decibel reading to see who has the loudest stereo. SQL has the judge sitting in the drivers seat listening to certain music. That judge listens for the overall quality in sound. He listens for the staging of the music, distortion or clarity of the music, among other things.

SPL has absolutely NOTHING to do with SQL. SPL vehicles usually have a vehicle FULL of woofers and amps running multiple batteries etc. SQL will usually have a 3-way active front stage and 1-2 woofers.

Either way, I'm glad my posts are amusing to you.

 

[GottaBeTRD]

thanks guys, I just got done reading some forums of all these leagues. crazy stuff i must say haha. and yeah I don't really care for competitiveness, I just want it to still sound decent. I may end up getting that pioneer box paired with a shallow sub, and build the cargo box around it.

looks like I have a ton more research to do, right now I've got a 1400 watt amp hooked to a single 12 inch sub and i love the sound. I rarely crank it up, but I like the option that I can when I want to

 

[riceandpho]

you can always turn the sub around, facing up and have a grill over it to protect it. pioneer, kenwood, rockford fosgate make slims subs, also jl audio and some other brands, just build it to specs and add some poly fill for a deeper note.

 

[Bucket81]

Go with a sealed 10W1. you don't have room for ported. Really the only way to do a ported box is if it can be to the exact specs of the manufacturer, or you have an extensive understanding of box building.

Dont use a flat sub they cost to much and don't perform. how much room do you have?

 

[BigBluePile]

I just used a jerry can. Easy peezy.

 

[Offroader5]

I have a single 8" Alpine Type-R (new version) in a vented enclosure on about 550 watts. Sounds very clean and gets extremely loud for one 8.

The enclosure is many times more important than how many or how expensive the sub is.

The Alpine is about 4 3/4" deep I believe. Maybe you should try one...they only need .35 cu. ft. for sealed.

 

[Denisimo]

Sealed box is the way to go.

If you going to point the sub down, then the sub will need some free air and shouldnt be too close to the floor or you will suffocate it and you will have a dull sound. I suggest you raise the box few inches, but you will have to drill large holes in the wooden floor to get the bass frequency out in to the open to hear it. In other words, you will have to calculate air space for a sub box inside the box if you going to point it down. Think of it a sealed box inside a ported box.

Best thing to do is point the sub towards the back window. At the end of the day, what sub you use can play a big role in sound quality in current location.

The Pioneer box you have in mind looks a bit thin from the pics on my cell. You want nice thick walls on a box as you can see on the pic posted above.

Best combo i ever had, is MTX subs with PPI amp. Clean, efficient, quality and raw bass sound.

 

[GottaBeTRD]

This is some good stuff. There are so many things I don't know about a sound system, and I'm a nut for making my stereo sound perfect haha. I can only imagine what else i could do to enhance the sound quality.

This is what i have right now the amp is made by Pyle, it's a 1400 watt 2 channel amp (i think)

as you can see it's a mess and it's got to go! My set-up, isn't the highest quality but i got most of it for free and it sounds good.

I'm wanting to keep it all pretty subtle and the cargo drawer system I'm about to make it gonna be about 8 inches high. That pioneer box is only 6 something inches high. So if I go with that down-firing sub route ill have to raise it up like you said Denisimo, and get one of those slim subs.

Thanks for you input guys. any more ideas are welcome!

 

[GottaBeTRD]

this thing looks insane!

 

[riceandpho]

U can use that sub , build the box wide and shallow with the recommended volume, then add a lil of poly fill to get it to sound deeper.

 

[Qyota]

this thing looks insane!

Yeah, it was a lot of angles! Sounds good, though. It's a 15" Polk MM sub, with two Kenwood amps (XR-4s for active 2-way up front, and the XR-1s running at 2-ohms for the sub - which is the DVC version). The amps are tiny, and pack a wollup.

I still need to finish it up. A little more bolstering, and then a 3-piece cover to make it all "disappear". :

I tried the storage system on the floor idea, but it took up too much vertical space. Since I don't really use the space above the wheel well, I thought that would be a better spot for the audio gear. Out of the way, and I don't lose headroom for taller items.

 

[GottaBeTRD]

that's a good point about the head room, I've been going over tons of possible ideas about this build, my brain is about to burst haha.

BTW i think that's your amp mounted inside the box; does heat from the amp make that kind of a sketchy place to mount?

 

[Qyota]

Yup, both amps are on their sides in that "box" on the left in the pictures. Both amps have built-in fans, and I'll be keeping the space around them open. I don't expect any issues with heat.

 

[Denisimo]

I did some thinking and heres what you should do.

Take your current sub in the box and place it right behind your seat or passenger seat. Take a nice thick plywood board and stand it up accross from left door to right on top of your new wooden floor about a foot away from the sub, like a cargo separator from the rest of the trunk space. It should be few inches higher then the sub box. The sub will fire at the wall and bounce the bass back towarfs the front.

Or place the current sub box behind the seat pointing up, but you will lose some volume because the soft meterial in the ceiling will absorb the bass frequency. This way you wont have to mod anything.

At the end of the day youll have to play around by pointing the sub in different directions and see what gives you best results with your new floor set up.

Just remember few things. Sub needs air space to fire in to and its best if it fires towards a hard surface such as window glass. If the sub fires towards soft material such as carpet or a lot plastic it will sound dull, if it fires towards metal then metal will rattle unless you properly dynamat it on the apposite side.

Another thing. Peak Watage on AMP is pointless, you need to know RMS. Ive seen AMPS that have a 1,000 peak but only 100rms. What you need is an amp that will give you few dozen watts RMS above subs RMS but not more then subs peak wattage. You have to match the two as best as you can.

Efficiency is also important when choosing a sub and an amp. Just because a sub or an amp is rated at 1000 rms doesnt mean its great. What matters is how well energy is used to produce that 1000rms. Think of it as engine that makes 1000 hp and gets 10 mpg, or an efficient engine that makes same hp but gets 20mpg. Or conventional light bulb vs led bulb. I going a bit off topic here, but it will help you build a better system down the road if you chose to do so.

 

[Offroader5]

Do you have an idea of how tall you want to go on the drawer system? Depending on how tall you go, you could mount the sub upright vertically (the woofer baffle would be a vertical piece) firing to one side of the vehicle. In your example pic above with the square drawn on it, you could point the sub to the drivers side leaving 3-4 inches in front of it to the wheel well. You'd still need to let the airspace in front of the sub breathe to the top side, but you could do either sealed or ported. Alternately, you could just point it into the wedge shaped void created between the rear seat back and the front of the drawer system.

If you're keeping the height of the cargo box low, you could use a single 8" or even dual 6" subs.

 

[GottaBeTRD]

I did some thinking and heres what you should do.

Take your current sub in the box and place it right behind your seat or passenger seat. Take a nice thick plywood board and stand it up accross from left door to right on top of your new wooden floor about a foot away from the sub, like a cargo separator from the rest of the trunk space. It should be few inches higher then the sub box. The sub will fire at the wall and bounce the bass back towarfs the front.

Or place the current sub box behind the seat pointing up, but you will lose some volume because the soft meterial in the ceiling will absorb the bass frequency. This way you wont have to mod anything.

At the end of the day youll have to play around by pointing the sub in different directions and see what gives you best results with your new floor set up.

Just remember few things. Sub needs air space to fire in to and its best if it fires towards a hard surface such as window glass. If the sub fires towards soft material such as carpet or a lot plastic it will sound dull, if it fires towards metal then metal will rattle unless you properly dynamat it on the apposite side.

Another thing. Peak Watage on AMP is pointless, you need to know RMS. Ive seen AMPS that have a 1,000 peak but only 100rms. What you need is an amp that will give you few dozen watts RMS above subs RMS but not more then subs peak wattage. You have to match the two as best as you can.

Efficiency is also important when choosing a sub and an amp. Just because a sub or an amp is rated at 1000 rms doesnt mean its great. What matters is how well energy is used to produce that 1000rms. Think of it as engine that makes 1000 hp and gets 10 mpg, or an efficient engine that makes same hp but gets 20mpg. Or conventional light bulb vs led bulb. I going a bit off topic here, but it will help you build a better system down the road if you chose to do so.

Thanks for throwing these ideas over. Honestly have no knowledge on the amp I have, I'm gonna look it up and make sure all the stuff will be compatible. Since some guy just gave this to me, I hooked it up and adjusted the knobs until everything sounds good! It all came attached

With the box I'm trying to keep everything usable like the back seat and all. Are your talking about building it above or over the back seat? As of right now, I'm not going to be building the sleeping platform. Will do in the future. I'm just going to be building that back half of the drawers system

Yup, both amps are on their sides in that "box" on the left in the pictures. Both amps have built-in fans, and I'll be keeping the space around them open. I don't expect any issues with heat.

thats sweet man, I was thinking of having my amp in a closed section of my cargo box but saw I needed a fan if i did this. I'm still kicking around where I want to mount the amp, It may work to mount it vertical ally to the box going in.

Do you have an idea of how tall you want to go on the drawer system? Depending on how tall you go, you could mount the sub upright vertically (the woofer baffle would be a vertical piece) firing to one side of the vehicle. In your example pic above with the square drawn on it, you could point the sub to the drivers side leaving 3-4 inches in front of it to the wheel well. You'd still need to let the airspace in front of the sub breathe to the top side, but you could do either sealed or ported. Alternately, you could just point it into the wedge shaped void created between the rear seat back and the front of the drawer system.

If you're keeping the height of the cargo box low, you could use a single 8" or even dual 6" subs.

These are some good ideas too, I'm going to make it a little over 7" high. So if i was to aim the sub down I'll have to raise the box up a couple inches so that it matches everything height wise. I'm thinking there will be some gaps around the box to allow the air. Initially the only reason I want to aim it down is so that i can have the full cargo space again, and be able to set things on top and not worry about damaging my sub.

I know people with trucks put these down-firing boxes under their seats and they perform pretty good, But in the back of an SUV can be a whole different story.

Anyway, thanks for your ideas, I just picked up some wood and sliders so I'm gonna start cutting this weekend. I'm gonna do some more measurements though and see if I could face it a different way.

 

[GottaBeTRD]

hear's kind of a better sketched plan that i had with measurements of how its gonna look (if I make or buy a box like the Pioneer one). I might even downgrade to the smaller sub and box So I can do something else with the sub box.

Thanks again for these ideas! I tend to see things only one way sometimes, so these are really beneficial.

For newcomers i'm not building the front half over the seat yet, I just want the back half with the drawers. I want to be able to utilize as much space as i can