Camry nav in '04 SR5 w/ buzzing sound

Well, the first thing I did on Sunday was to remove all the wires, except the 20pin to the HU and the 10pin into the amp. I jammed all the other wires back down and as far away as possible. No luck.

I've checked several audio installation forums and I can't find this EXACT scenario. BUT, I did find alot of good information about a common condition called ground looping. I'll get back to you once I test some of the theories I picked up over there.

You're not alone, Hitman. Tonight I was driving the 4Runner to Home Depot and I swear I hear the noise alot louder, too. I'm sure it's just because we're very aware of the problem, but in my mind the noise is laughter. The nav unit is laughing at me because I can't solve this problem!!

Okay, I'm loosing it...

- NewRunner:awais: :awais:
 
Maybe a prob with the smaller amp? Maybe Troy will trade you for a large amp to see if that solves the problem. I have the large amp, and I get no engine noise whatsoever....
Good luck.
Mark
 
spyderdoc said:
Maybe a prob with the smaller amp? Maybe Troy will trade you for a large amp to see if that solves the problem. I have the large amp, and I get no engine noise whatsoever....
Good luck.
Mark
Click to expand...

I have the smaller amp and have this problem. NewRunner apparently has the larger amp and also has the same problem, so I doubt the amp is actually causing the problem.
 
NewRunner,

Any update on a fix? Have you tried anything else? Have you found out info on the "ground loop" situation?

I haven't had a day off of work for 3 weeks now, so I have not had time to take mine apart yet....
 
Good news, Hitman! I solved the buzzing.... sort of...

Actually, I've reduced it down to where you can only hear it if you put your ear right up to the speaker. And even then it's almost inaudible. Turns out it WAS ground looping after all. Here's the scoop:

The amp and the radio are not grounded to the same ground point. I found that out almost by accident. This is the reason and cause of ground looping. When you installed your nav head you noticed that there was no external grounding. If you just connect the nav head and amp using the factory harness (leave the antennas diconnected) the unit will not even power up. The nav head (mine, anyways) was getting ground from the antenna of all places. That confirmed to me that ground looping was the culprit since the HU and amp were on different grounds. So, what I did was run one single 8AWG wire to ground both devices (I'll get pictures up later in the week). I used one of the little brass screws on the back of the HU as a new ground connector, ran that to the amp's brown ground wire (yes, I cut the factory harness for this), then into solid ground.

Voila! buzzing gone!

PM me if you need more details. It's late now and I'm tired, so I may have missed something. I'm sure this will solve your buzzing, too.

- NewRunner
 
That's good news! Thanks for the info.

But help me understand this-- Are you saying that the amp and head unit need to be grounded together? In other words, must they share a common ground?

The reason I am asking is this: When I installed my system, I created a ground wire specifically for my amp (at the time, I was unsure if the amp needed to be grounded through it's mounting as the head unit did) by using one of the screws originally intended for the mounting bracket. I removed the unused mounting bracket and reinserted one of the brass screws. Then I ran a wire from the screw to a good chassis ground.

Should I get rid of that ground?
 
I tried grounding the amp like you did without success. I didn't notice a difference when grounding it that way.

So yes, the amp and the radio need to share one single ground point. Here's what I did with some more detail:

Behind the useless tray that's below the A/C controls there's a bolt holding a silver tab. I'm not sure exactly what that is, but it's definately a solid ground point for whatever's on the other end. Anyhow, I secured the end of an 8AWG wire there and ran it up to the compartment in the glove box where the amp is mounted. Without cutting the wire, I removed some of the outter cover to expose about 1/2 an inch of bare wire. I cut the brown ground wire from the factory harness and securely connected both ends back to the exposed area of the ground wire. Then, I continued the wire back out the glove box and terminated it right onto the back of the radio itself. If you look at the back of the HU you'll notice brass screws with the paint around them cleared. Use any of these as the ground point.

Again, I'll try to get some pics sometime this week. Let me know how it goes.

- NewRunner
 
NewRunner,

I'm finally getting around to fixing my buzzing problem now that I have the time...

The brown wire that you mention... is it coming out of the amp, or is it coming out of the back of the head unit?

If I understand you correctly, you simply ran a separate ground wire from a chassis ground, to the brown amp wire, to the back of the head unit? Is this corrrect?

If the brown wire is the ground wire for the amp, and it is connected (via the wiring harness and connectors) to the head unit, wouldn't it already share a common ground?

What am I missing here?
 
Hi there, Hitman.

I clipped the brown wire about two inches back from the connector on the car-side of the wiring.

If I understand you correctly, you simply ran a separate ground wire from a chassis ground, to the brown amp wire, to the back of the head unit? Is this corrrect?
Click to expand...

Yep, that's it. But it MUST be one continuous wire.

If the brown wire is the ground wire for the amp, and it is connected (via the wiring harness and connectors) to the head unit, wouldn't it already share a common ground?
Click to expand...

That, right there, is the root of the problem. For some strange reason that is NOT the ground for the head unit. When I connected just the 20-pin connector from the amp to the head unit, the system wouldn't power on. Only when I added the FM antenna cables did the unit power up. I tested this a few times and sure enough my head unit was getting ground from the antenna plugs. When I ran a ground wire from the HU directly to good ground the noise went away just a little.

When I finally decided to run the ground as mentioned above the buzzing almost completely went away (you can hear it slightly if you put your ear right up to the speakers).

Hope this helps, and keep me updated on your progress.

- NewRunner
 
Okay, but I think my situation is a bit different.

Troy gave me the smaller amp, which did not come with a separate wiring harness. In other words, the wires coming out of my amp plug directly into the back of the head unit. The amp had to be mounted very close to the back of the head unit because the wires are only about 12 inches long.

I wonder if the wire colors match with yours. I'll have to take it apart again to see if I even have a brown wire coming out of my amp. I sure wish that I had the schematic for this smaller amp.
 
No, no, no. Sorry, I wasn't clear.

The brown wire I clipped was on the 10-pin harness coming from the 4Runner into the amp. Not from the amp out to the head unit.

- NewRunner
 
NewRunner,

Just wanted to let you know that I did manage to get rid of the annoying speaker buzz... I should have posted this weeks ago, but it just slipped my mind.

BTW, after I took everything back apart, it became apparent to me that I could run a single wire between the head unit and the brown wire on the factory wire harness.

Instead of running a wire to the bolt that you used (for ground) and then to the brown wire and then to the head unit, I simply cut the brown wire, connected a wire to it, and attached the other end to the mounting bracket for the head unit. This allowed the amp to share the same exact ground as the head unit, since the head unit is grounded through its mounting bracket.

Same idea as what you did, but with one less step. Either way, it worked fine. My buzzing sound is COMPLETELY gone. I can't even hear it with my ear against the speaker!

Anyone doing this navigation system installation in the future should definitely consider wiring the ground this way....
 
Nav Noise ---> Ground Loop ?!?!?!

Hello:

I found this thread from a search. I too have the smaller amp and I still have the whining noise. I took a different approach. Since I was convinced it was alternator noise, I installed alternator noise suppressors (ANS). 3 of them in parallel, but in series between the power input to the head bolt power connector to the fuse block under the hood. I had to use 3 (60 amps each) so they could handle our 150 amp alternator output. Needless to say, the mod failed miserably.

This however does tend to confirm your solution to the problem. I was trying to stop noise that really wasn't comming from the alternator.

If the Nav HU was getting it's ground from the antennas, it makes sense the antennas were inductively picking up the noise and sending it right into the HU. (BTW, the noise will always sound louder on AM than on FM because of the frequency bands they're on and because of the difference in how the signals are demodulated in the receiver. Some people actually use AM receivers to track down noise problems.) Naturally, the noise was coupled onto the audio outputs from the HU to whatever amp we all have. The amp did exactly what it was supposed to, it used that noisey ground as its audio reference voltage. That's why the noise doesn't get louder when the amp is turned up. When the engine is off, the antennas don't pick up the engine noise so the ground they provide is clean.

Personally, I hate ground loop isolators because they cover up a symptom instead of solving the cause. This weekend I'm going to run an 8 AWG wire from one of the HU mounting bracket bolts to that hard ground point you found on the passenger's side of the center console (I remember it from my install). Then I'm going to run another 8 AWG wire from the case of my small amplifier to the same ground point. If I still have the noise, I'll add a connection from the amp's ground wire to the 8 AWG hard-point ground wire.

Thanks again for a very informative post. I'll be watching it closley for more results.

Mark
 
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mhumm2, good luck with your mod. I've had no complaints from the wife since doing what I posted here. She has a much more sensitive ear than I do for those things and if she's happy, I'm happy! :D

Keep me posted on your experience.

- NewRunner
 
I did it. I got rid of the buzz by adding two ground wires. One from the Nav HU chassis to ground and the other from the amplifier brown (ground) wire to the same ground. Absolutely quiet! I also installed my mic system and Solara XM radio! W O W !!!

Mark (mhumm2)
 
I have two questions........I have the standard Toyota DVD/Cassette player. Does the Camary Nav fits my truck. Secondly, If it does then; how much did the Camary Navi cost you folks???
 
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