Can I flat tow my 98 Manual 5 speed 4WD with my F-250?

[ranchdog]

I bought my 98 4 Runner 4WD with 5 speed manual trans to hunt out of. I plan to leave it at the ranch during hunting season :hunter: so I would like to bumper tow it (with bumper upgrade) behind my F-250. Like you see so many RV people tow their extra ride behind.

I have searched the forum but don't see any threads covering this and it is not covered in the owners manual, cause I probably should not try it LOL.

Can I just throw both the gear shifts in Neutral and turn the key to allow the wheels to not be locked? I have to tow it about 100 miles one way.

Any thoughts ?

Thanks, Ranchdog

 

[JBurt]

I'd probably disconnect the driveshafts but that's just me. I think you'd be fine.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Even in neutral, parts are still moving, but yes I see people do that with jeeps all the time.

I've been told it's fine but never done it myself. Disconnecting the rear shaft can be a pain if rust is present so that's probably not worth the effort. I can't imaging flat towing be any more of a strain than actually driving it the whole way either. I know there are "quick disconnect" kits for the driveshaft for this very purpose, but I think it's more for auto trans.

 

[frodiesel]

Just service the rear diff before you haul it out there. If it was auto Trans i would take out the rear ds but for 100 miles....fawkit.

 

[kolelt]

Don't understand how parts can be moving in NEUTRAL ? When if you have manual tranny in neutral. It goes no where. If you have transfer case in N. it goes no where. I don't see what is loving ? Besides the gears in the pumpkin when the wheels are on the ground.

 

[phattyduck]

Transfer case in neutral still connects the front and rear driveshafts, so you can't flat tow it in 4wd neutral.

-Charlie

 

[Clovertucky]

Unless you have hubs, I think I'd rent a two-wheel dolly, and get the front wheels off the ground.

 

[nevada]

I bought my 98 4 Runner 4WD with 5 speed manual trans to hunt out of. I plan to leave it at the ranch during hunting season :hunter: so I would like to bumper tow it (with bumper upgrade) behind my F-250. Like you see so many RV people tow their extra ride behind.

I have searched the forum but don't see any threads covering this and it is not covered in the owners manual, cause I probably should not try it LOL.

Can I just throw both the gear shifts in Neutral and turn the key to allow the wheels to not be locked? I have to tow it about 100 miles one way.

Any thoughts ?

Thanks, Ranchdog

you might call a tow company. they should have that information.

Don't understand how parts can be moving in NEUTRAL ? When if you have manual tranny in neutral. It goes no where. If you have transfer case in N. it goes no where. I don't see what is loving ? Besides the gears in the pumpkin when the wheels are on the ground.

the output shaft will be turning, if the driveline is still connected.



it really depends on the Tcase, and where the oil pump is. if its on the output shaft, than flat towing would be fine, as the oil would be flowing correctly.
however, if the oil pump is on the input shaft, this would be bad. you would have no oil flow, but the output would be spinning. it could quickly burn up some bearings. if it was a short trip, it might be OK, but 100 is way more then I would be comfortable with..

 

[csp]

Transfer case in neutral still connects the front and rear driveshafts, so you can't flat tow it in 4wd neutral.

I've rebuilt and/or modified a lot of different transfer cases from Spicer 18s to Borg Warner 1356s and have never seen one that locked the front and rear driveshafts in any position other than 4hi or 4lo or those that are fulltime 4wd cases.

Care to qualify that statement with a little more info?

 

[phattyduck]

I've rebuilt and/or modified a lot of different transfer cases from Spicer 18s to Borg Warner 1356s and have never seen one that locked the front and rear driveshafts in any position other than 4hi or 4lo or those that are fulltime 4wd cases.

Care to qualify that statement with a little more info?

Other than the fact I've been under my truck with the TC shifter in neutral and the front output shaft doesn't spin freely? (wheels on the ground, ADD disconnected)

Oh, and since the OP has a manual trans, just leave the TC in 2wd, trans in neutral and it should be 'ok' for short trips. It is the auto trans where you don't want to spin the output shaft without the input shaft spinning.

-Charlie

 

[IBallEngineer]

I've rebuilt and/or modified a lot of different transfer cases from Spicer 18s to Borg Warner 1356s and have never seen one that locked the front and rear driveshafts in any position other than 4hi or 4lo or those that are fulltime 4wd cases.

Care to qualify that statement with a little more info?

Yeah I though the same thing, so I checked it out. And... sure enough, front and rear shafts are locked together when the t/c is in neutral. Don't make sense to me either. But as the Andrew's Sisters sang, "it's a fact man, it's a fact"
:frusty:

 

[JayRolla]

Don't understand how parts can be moving in NEUTRAL ? When if you have manual tranny in neutral. It goes no where. If you have transfer case in N. it goes no where. I don't see what is loving ? Besides the gears in the pumpkin when the wheels are on the ground.

Its real bad on an AWD. You can destroy the transfer case. Not so much of an issue in a RWD but again to avoid any issues removing the drive shaft is as easy as 8 bolts. Even the owners manual on AWD cars recommend flat bed towing.

 

[3bears]

I saw a guy pull a 4runner up to a big mothome and did nothing but connect to a front tow hitch. I assumed it was a manual tranny, but he did nothing underneath

 

[gamefreakgc]

Ok, I should have looked here first. From the 98 Owner's Manual:

Four-wheel drive models—
(a) Towing with wheel lift type truck
From front—
Manual transmission:
We recommend using a towing dolly
under the rear wheels. If you do
not use a towing dolly, release the
parking brake, put the transmission
in neutral and the transfer in ”H2”

So it's saying that having the two rear wheels on a 4WD model on the ground in neutral and transfer case in H2 is ok. Going off that, the fronts should be doing next to nothing so should be fine.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Ok, I should have looked here first. From the 98 Owner's Manual:

Four-wheel drive models—
(a) Towing with wheel lift type truck
From front—
Manual transmission:
We recommend using a towing dolly
under the rear wheels. If you do
not use a towing dolly, release the
parking brake, put the transmission
in neutral and the transfer in ”H2”

So it's saying that having the two rear wheels on a 4WD model on the ground in neutral and transfer case in H2 is ok. Going off that, the fronts should be doing next to nothing so should be fine.

I wonder if that means for a short tow, or long term. My understanding was that the chain driven cases do not self oil when the input is from the output shaft(s).

I wonder what it says about the 2wd manual trans?

Edit, just looked, it says the same thing, less the H2. Doesn't clarify how long you can do that.

:noidea:

 

[kreagsman]

I had a 98 auto 4wd and towed 4 down with tranfer in neutral and left transmission in park, no harm, buyin a 1999 tomorrow in illionois and plan on towing it back to texas that way, I could be mistaken but towed the 98 behind my coach for many miles and never had issue.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I wonder if that means for a short tow, or long term. My understanding was that the chain driven cases do not self oil when the input is from the output shaft(s).

I wonder what it says about the 2wd manual trans?

Edit, just looked, it says the same thing, less the H2. Doesn't clarify how long you can do that.

:noidea:

Basically the same except for the transfer case part:

(a) Towing with wheel lift type
truck
From front—

Manual transmission:
We recommend using a towing dolly
under the rear wheels. If you do not
use a towing dolly, release the parking
brake and put the transmission
in neutral.

 

[TheDurk]

Yeah I though the same thing, so I checked it out. And... sure enough, front and rear shafts are locked together when the t/c is in neutral. Don't make sense to me either. But as the Andrew's Sisters sang, "it's a fact man, it's a fact"
:frusty:

It's a fact, indeed. On a J-shift, like mine, the Neutral position is halfway between H4 and L4. So I assume the locking occurs when the TC goes into H4, and it doesn't undo between H4 and L4--the 'neutralness' is with respect to the TC input shaft as the TC goes from direct drive (H) to the reduction drive (L) only. For this reason, I'd tow it in H2, where at least the front shaft is decoupled. Then you don't worry about the TC, because it will be as normal for operation in H2. The TC doesn't know or care if the motive force is coming from the input shaft or the rear output shaft--it just locks them together. The reduction gear does not turn and neither does the front output.

So then the concern is only on the 5-speed which is in neutral, so the output shaft is spinning but not the input. I don't know the architecture of a car 5-speed with synchronizers; I've only been intimate with tractor transmissions which don't have synchronizers. There are three shafts in the 5-speed: the input shaft, which is fairly short and simple and is not equipped with any pump or slinger that I can see when I look at the EPD. It won't be turning and I wouldn't worry there. It's also higher than the output shaft, so I don't see how it can play much of a role in lubrication other than receiving it. The reverse shaft only turns in reverse, so its life will be the same, no worry there. The output shaft WILL be turning; it's a long busy shaft with a lot of stuff on it. It's looks to me as if it lubes itself, so I don't think its life would be any different in tow mode than in driven mode.

So I conclude that towing a 5-speed in H2 with the trans in neutral is fine. I would disconnect the D/S for a cross-country tow, just to be safe, but 100 miles at a time would not bother me a bit with the D/S engaged. I would not tow a 5-speed with the J-shift in N, only H2.

These comments do not apply if the TC is not a J-shift; I haven't looked at that.

 

[Dropzone]

on earlier Toyotas Marlin (of Marlin Crawler) says that the rear output bearing doesn't get properly lubed with the trans and case in neutral and the rear shaft spinning. Not sure if this applies to later models.

Personally I wouldn't flat tow a toyota 4WD with out taking a few minutes to unbolt 8 bolts.
I learned the hardway when somehow the transmission or t/c went into gear when flat towing my 81, it trashed the transmission and a set of dual cases... expensive lesson for not taking a few minutes to bungee cord the rear driveshaft up because I didn't feel like getting wet after a wet day of wheeling.
spline coupler isn't supposed to come out when you pull your transfer case

Fried t/c input shaft bearings

also caused internal bearing damage

 

[csp]

I had a 98 auto 4wd and towed 4 down with tranfer in neutral and left transmission in park, no harm,

You mean no harm that you're aware of yet.

Yeah I though the same thing, so I checked it out. And... sure enough, front and rear shafts are locked together when the t/c is in neutral.

And there is why I frequent auto forums. I don't learn something new every time, but it's often enough to keep coming back.