Can the new WS Tranny Fluid be used

[TeryT]

in a 2003 V8 which uses the T-IV?

In a realted thing, I had my transmission fluid exchanged by a Toyota dealer a month ago. Everything seemed fine, then this weekend I did my first hard tow (4,500 lb. travel trailer, up 3,500 feet in 105+ degree ambient). My tranny temperature gauge hit nearly 240 at one point, which is a good 10 degrees hotter than I had ever seen it.

(BTW - I have a larger tranny cooler/fan combo installed a year ago.)

Could they possibly have mixed up the fluid, or would this have shown up in the way it shifted just around town?

 

[toto]

ATF-WS was introduced on the 4Runner in 2004.
The 2004 Model Guide says no:

"The ATF WS is not interchangeable with other types of ATF (ATF type T-IV, or D-II)."

According to that document, the key feature of WS is lower viscosity at lower temperatures, which is supposed to reduce drag and therefore improve fuel economy.

The WS transmissions don't have a dipstick. Instead, they have a fill plug, an overflow plug, and an A/T Oil Temp warning light.
There was a good post elsewhere on this sub-forum about how the refill process works with this setup.

 

[4RNR-LOVN]

That seems incredibly hot Terry. Is that in the pan or the hot line (I seem to recall you installed the gauge in the pan)? I don't see how it could be running that hot with the cooler you had installed.

Only thing I can suggest is to verify that the cooler is working properly and that you are not pulling with the torque converter unlocked.

Karl

 

[Koz]

ATF-WS was introduced on the 4Runner in 2004.
The 2004 Model Guide says no:

"The ATF WS is not interchangeable with other types of ATF (ATF type T-IV, or D-II)."

According to that document, the key feature of WS is lower viscosity at lower temperatures, which is supposed to reduce drag and therefore improve fuel economy.

The WS transmissions don't have a dipstick. Instead, they have a fill plug, an overflow plug, and an A/T Oil Temp warning light.
There was a good post elsewhere on this sub-forum about how the refill process works with this setup.

Could you post a link or pdf file of this document? I was told that the WS fluid (just like other synthetic fluids) not only has better flow at low temp, it also withstands higher temp without breaking down and dissipates/absorbs heat better. From what I've heard it also reduces the operating temp. Basically it does everything better. From what I've read about the new WS fluid can not be substituted with any other fluid but I don't think that means you can't use it in an older 4th gen 5 speed trans (not sure).

Koz

 

[toto]

Could you post a link or pdf file of this document?
Koz

This is the section on ATF-WS.

 

[TeryT]

Actually, I'm now wondering if perhaps I don't need a little more fluid. I checked the dipstick & it seemed fine, but the invoice said they refilled with 15 qts. of T-IV. With the larger cooler I installed, it could be slightly low.

The only other thing might be the gauge is off. Although it seems to read sitting temp in my garage OK.

 

[Koz]

This is the section on ATF-WS.

Thanks

Koz

 

[TeryT]

So could an 03 be converted to the WS, or are the transmissions different?

It says improved mileage - I can't imagine by much though.

 

[TechWrench]

That seems incredibly hot Terry. Is that in the pan or the hot line (I seem to recall you installed the gauge in the pan)? I don't see how it could be running that hot with the cooler you had installed.

Only thing I can suggest is to verify that the cooler is working properly and that you are not pulling with the torque converter unlocked.

Karl

The locking circuit in the converter will automatically disengage when the torque load on the trans gets too high, and I don't believe this can be manually overridden. I would suspect that pulling a 4500 lb trailer uphill will make that converter unlock.

As for the oil temp he saw, I'm not really surprised. If the aux trans cooler was installed in-line after the radiator cooler (as most are), it would be bringing the oil temp down from what the radiator cooler was able to do. But, with high outside ambient air temp, and engine load, the engine coolant temp was probably pushing 200 or more, so its ability to cool the trans fluid was limited. Since the heat in the trans is generated in the converter, and the oil usually flows to the cooling lines from there, it is to be expected that under a load, the temp of the fluid going to the radiator will be much higher than when just cruising on the level.

 

[TeryT]

The locking circuit in the converter will automatically disengage when the torque load on the trans gets too high. I would suspect that pulling a 4500 lb trailer uphill will make that converter unlock.

I tow in 4th, not OD, so wouldn't the TC be unlocked anyway when not in OD?

 

[TechWrench]

I tow in 4th, not OD, so wouldn't the TC be unlocked anyway when not in OD?

I'm not certain, but I think the converter will still lock-up in 4th if load conditions are right. I'll have to check my manual when I get home tonight.

 

[Mulepick]

FWIW, I concur w/ Toto. The factory manual I got for my '04 talks about the WS fluid, no-dipstick, A750e/f tranny from 08/03.

 

[TeryT]

FWIW, I concur w/ Toto. The factory manual I got for my '04 talks about the WS fluid, no-dipstick, A750e/f tranny from 08/03.

I musta been right on the cusp - mine was made in 8/03 & has the T-IV with dipstick. I think I like this better for towing, as I can check the fluid & change much easier.

 

[EDGE]

My dealer informed me that when they do a drain and flush on the 03 4Runner they refill with WS, I have not had it done but I'll check into more then 1 source

 

[davefisher]

I tow in 4th, not OD, so wouldn't the TC be unlocked anyway when not in OD?

I think you are correct... assuming 5th is the lock-up gear.

I own an IS300 and Toyota chose to make the "overdrive" gear 2nd in this 5spd auto. So my true gears are 1, (lockup 2), 3, 4, 5. Something to do with the way they designed the E-Shift manual system... Don't ask me, I think it's stupid.

I'm assuming with a truck they would make 5th the lock-up.

 

[Guerini]

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