Carfax, the reality
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BlackWorksInc
New member
Carfax is nice in theory, but easily defeated. I have to sadly admit I know far too well how many of these dealer used vehicles are barely above lemon status and those that aren't our dealership sells to the auction (and worse we buy a lot from the auctions to sell to customers.) I can't count the horror stories I see and am not allowed to fix (because that would ruin the profit margin) before they get sold off to some unsuspecting customer, most of the time the used car department tries to justify it by selling the prospective chump an extended warranty package to cover possible future repairs. In other words, buy a broken car and then buy a warranty to repair your broken car while paying us your deductible... it sickens me really.
LandCruiser
New member
It's a scam based on voluntary reporting.
Dealers who PDR a lot of cars after a hailstorm don't have to report it to Carfax and often sell them as new.
A car that had minimal bumper damage (only to the bumper cover) will be listed as a collision the same as one that had extensive front end damage.
Service reports are often incomplete or inaccurate, since reporting is voluntary.
All Carfax seems to do is let dealers lowball trade-in values on otherwise good cars due to the spotty nature of the site, get away with selling damaged/repaired/lemon vehicles, and obviously pander to their own site where Carfax alleges to sell you cars with "one owner" or "no accidents." There's no guarantee that your spotless Carfax vehicle you paid a premium for is just that.
It's bullshit, and I wish people would stop buying into it.
Dealers who PDR a lot of cars after a hailstorm don't have to report it to Carfax and often sell them as new.
A car that had minimal bumper damage (only to the bumper cover) will be listed as a collision the same as one that had extensive front end damage.
Service reports are often incomplete or inaccurate, since reporting is voluntary.
All Carfax seems to do is let dealers lowball trade-in values on otherwise good cars due to the spotty nature of the site, get away with selling damaged/repaired/lemon vehicles, and obviously pander to their own site where Carfax alleges to sell you cars with "one owner" or "no accidents." There's no guarantee that your spotless Carfax vehicle you paid a premium for is just that.
It's bullshit, and I wish people would stop buying into it.
Carfax may not catch everything but it does catch *some* stuff.
Back when I was shopping for my 4runner I came across a potential candidate: right color, right options, mileage was listed at just over 100K with a photo of the odometer along with the ad. Ran the VIN on Carfax and what you know... over 200K documented miles were reported. I sent a copy of the report to the seller and later that day he had the ad updated with a much lower price and a whole sob story about how the previous owner screwed him, he just needs to get "out", etc.... Needless to say I passed on that particular truck.
As always, YMMV.
Back when I was shopping for my 4runner I came across a potential candidate: right color, right options, mileage was listed at just over 100K with a photo of the odometer along with the ad. Ran the VIN on Carfax and what you know... over 200K documented miles were reported. I sent a copy of the report to the seller and later that day he had the ad updated with a much lower price and a whole sob story about how the previous owner screwed him, he just needs to get "out", etc.... Needless to say I passed on that particular truck.
As always, YMMV.
I've seen plenty of wrecked cars with clean carfax reports, it can't show up if it's not reported. If people don't go through insurance it wont be listed.
Carfax isn't bad, it's not the end all be all of a good clean car. Every used car should be taken to a competent outside mechanic for an inspection from a party that has nothing to lose or gain. I have people bring me Audis and VWs for prepurchase inspections quite often. I had an independent shop threaten to sue because the sales manager came in with a Touareg and the potential customers to get it inspected, the sales manager they guy was so confident that th car was perfect he offered me $100 cash if I could find anything wrong with it... i found plenty wrong with it and he went off the handle.
I've seen some pretty shady things with used cars at my old dealer when I was with VW. A lot of cars get cheap low quality replacement and maintenance parts. IMHO opinion the buying a used car from a dealership, the quality of the car is going to vary considerably by the type of clientele that goes there. For example I looked for a good condition, taken care of, full time 4WD large truck/SUV for almost 2 years while I was still at VW and I didn't find anything that fit the bill. Within a month of working for Audi I was considering multiple different trucks we had, that's when I bought my 4-Runner, 2011 loaded limited with 29K miles spotless inside, minor cosmetic damage outside, and all of the maintenance records from day one serviced at the Toyota dealer. Point being the luxury market brings in a LOT higher quality used cars then the dealers selling entry level offerings.
Also CPO is the way to go but not all CPO is created equal. To CPO a VW it's pretty basic, on an Audi it can't have any curb marks on a wheel, you need to measure rotor thicknesses, tread depths in 3 spots per tire, the load rating on the tires have to match and it has to be an OEM approved tire, even down to OEM floor mats, the check list is super in depth, a CPO Audi is a like new car.
Carfax isn't bad, it's not the end all be all of a good clean car. Every used car should be taken to a competent outside mechanic for an inspection from a party that has nothing to lose or gain. I have people bring me Audis and VWs for prepurchase inspections quite often. I had an independent shop threaten to sue because the sales manager came in with a Touareg and the potential customers to get it inspected, the sales manager they guy was so confident that th car was perfect he offered me $100 cash if I could find anything wrong with it... i found plenty wrong with it and he went off the handle.
I've seen some pretty shady things with used cars at my old dealer when I was with VW. A lot of cars get cheap low quality replacement and maintenance parts. IMHO opinion the buying a used car from a dealership, the quality of the car is going to vary considerably by the type of clientele that goes there. For example I looked for a good condition, taken care of, full time 4WD large truck/SUV for almost 2 years while I was still at VW and I didn't find anything that fit the bill. Within a month of working for Audi I was considering multiple different trucks we had, that's when I bought my 4-Runner, 2011 loaded limited with 29K miles spotless inside, minor cosmetic damage outside, and all of the maintenance records from day one serviced at the Toyota dealer. Point being the luxury market brings in a LOT higher quality used cars then the dealers selling entry level offerings.
Also CPO is the way to go but not all CPO is created equal. To CPO a VW it's pretty basic, on an Audi it can't have any curb marks on a wheel, you need to measure rotor thicknesses, tread depths in 3 spots per tire, the load rating on the tires have to match and it has to be an OEM approved tire, even down to OEM floor mats, the check list is super in depth, a CPO Audi is a like new car.
MtnT4R
New member
Trusting carfax a couple years ago meant I ended up with a problematic T4 that I ultimately gave up on and traded in last week. I was in a rush and bought it froma small used car dealer who sold mainly auction cars.
I think there is a lot more value in doing business with an ethical, well run dealership. A good friend of mine owns several dealerships down in Louisiana, and he explained to me how everything they do is geared towards providing the customer with the most value and honest, genuine customer service. As a result he destroys the competition and enjoys exceedingly healthy return business and referrals because customers can TRUST his business to get them into a mechanically sound vehicle. Novel idea huh?
I just bought my new '02 SR5 at Emich Volkswagon down in Denver, and man do they do it right. While I was plugging through the whole purchase process, they put the truck through a second thorough mech inspection, the finance department came back to me twice with improved interest rates and better deals on extended warranty, and they have already called me twice to follow up and see how the truck drove over the passes and how I liked the handling, if I had any issues, etc. THAT is how you sell people vehicles. And you can bet I will happily send them as much business as I can.
I think there is a lot more value in doing business with an ethical, well run dealership. A good friend of mine owns several dealerships down in Louisiana, and he explained to me how everything they do is geared towards providing the customer with the most value and honest, genuine customer service. As a result he destroys the competition and enjoys exceedingly healthy return business and referrals because customers can TRUST his business to get them into a mechanically sound vehicle. Novel idea huh?
I just bought my new '02 SR5 at Emich Volkswagon down in Denver, and man do they do it right. While I was plugging through the whole purchase process, they put the truck through a second thorough mech inspection, the finance department came back to me twice with improved interest rates and better deals on extended warranty, and they have already called me twice to follow up and see how the truck drove over the passes and how I liked the handling, if I had any issues, etc. THAT is how you sell people vehicles. And you can bet I will happily send them as much business as I can.
There are exactly two uses for CARFAX, and they are not guaranteed to be right either:
1) To see where a vehicle comes from. I don't worry about this for German cars, but with Japanese & American cars with inferior corrosion protection, I'd like to know if a car comes from an area where roads are heavily salted.
2) If you see that a car has been auctioned 20 times or sits around on dealer lots for extended periods of time, you know something is up.
I've bought a car before with a clean CARFAX that had clearly been wrecked. Owner insisted until the end, despite obvious signs. I had a car towed due to a breakdown, CARFAX reported the car as having been in an accident. I contacted them several times trying to rectify this & they outright refused to do anything. The didn't care at all that their data is crap.
1) To see where a vehicle comes from. I don't worry about this for German cars, but with Japanese & American cars with inferior corrosion protection, I'd like to know if a car comes from an area where roads are heavily salted.
2) If you see that a car has been auctioned 20 times or sits around on dealer lots for extended periods of time, you know something is up.
I've bought a car before with a clean CARFAX that had clearly been wrecked. Owner insisted until the end, despite obvious signs. I had a car towed due to a breakdown, CARFAX reported the car as having been in an accident. I contacted them several times trying to rectify this & they outright refused to do anything. The didn't care at all that their data is crap.
