Checking Valve Clearance

[MDTrailrider]

My valve covers are leaking pretty bad. They're at the point where I want to have the seals replaced while the 4Runner is in for other work. It's a 98 SR5 (V6) with manual transmission. I'm the original owner. It has 297,018 miles. Mostly highway but a fair share of city, traffic jams and offroad. I try to be pretty easy on it. I change the oil and filter every 3,000 miles with Dino oil. I hope to get to 500,000 miles with it.

It's at a Toyota dealer now. I asked them to check and adjust the valves if necessary while the valve covers are off. It's never been done. They don't want to check the valves. They say the engine is very quiet which is true. Don't fix what's not broke. I know changing the shims is tedious if they're out of spec but how hard is it to check the clearances if the effort to remove the covers has already been accomplished? They're sounding more and more like a stealership.

Should I insist on them checking the valves? They say it takes 1 1/2 hours to do. I'm starting to not trust them.

 

[Stiles97]

If they don't want to do what you have asked them to do ,which is a simple valve check , I would find another place to have your work done. Tight valves are very quiet !! You have not asked for anything unreasonable. Actually makes a lot of sense. JMO, Matt

 

[ThorInc]

Make sure you also change the spark plug tube seals and the PCV valve and seal while they are in there as well as the intake plenum gaskets (where ever you take it).

 

[nobb]

1-1/2 hrs extra in labor for them to check valve clearances seems like a lot. That better including the shim replacements (if necessary). Checking the clearances with a feeler gauge should be 15 mins top.

 

[mtbtim]

Curious, how much did the dealer quote you to do just the valve cover gasket job? It's labor intensive but not a hard job. You can do it yourself and save a ton of money. The steps to do a valve clearance check and adjustment with shims seems to be a litter more technical to perform, and I've never done it, but maybe somebody who has can chime in on how difficult it is.

If the dealership hasn't started the work yet, get it out of there and tackle the job yourself. You'll learn more about your engine, you'll save a bunch of money and you'll get the sense of accomplishment of doing it yourself.

Here's a video [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I made for the job.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/N5fAXAuGozI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[mtbtim]

1-1/2 hrs extra in labor for them to check valve clearances seems like a lot. That better including the shim replacements (if necessary). Checking the clearances with a feeler gauge should be 15 mins top.

I read up a little on what it takes to do this on our engines and it sounded a lot more involved than a 15 minute job. Have you actually done it on your engine?

 

[MDTrailrider]

I read up a little on what it takes to do this on our engines and it sounded a lot more involved than a 15 minute job. Have you actually done it on your engine?

I already researched doing the valves and gaskets myself and it's more work than I have time for. I have it in for something else anyway.

It appears to me that most of the work is getting the covers off and back on to replace the gaskets. Once the covers are off how much more effort does it take to check the valve clearances? That is my question. Is it 15 or 90 minutes? 90 extra minutes is what I would expect to adjust them.

It annoys me that they want to charge me $505 + ripoff shop fees to bloat the cost and tax but not do the reasonable extra work while the valves are accessible. I doubt I'll take it there again. They're losing my trust.

 

[mtbtim]

It annoys me that they want to charge me $505 + ripoff shop fees to bloat the cost and tax but not do the reasonable extra work while the valves are accessible. I doubt I'll take it there again. They're losing my trust.

Sounds like a typical service department at a dealership. They're not going to do you any favors. They're all about making money so they're not going to cut you any slack. You'll have much better luck with an independent shop or mechanic that will charge you just what it takes them to do the job and not what the service book says they can charge for it.

Regardless, letting other people work on your rig is always going to be fairly costly. Labor rates in the Peoples Republic of California are anywhere from $110/hr all the way up to $150/hr (local dealership rate). This is why I'm always trying to encourage people to work on their own rigs. I understand if you just don't have the time. I get plenty of time off with my career and I don't have kids, so it's easier for me to find the time to tackle these jobs.

 

[MDTrailrider]

Sounds like a typical service department at a dealership. They're not going to do you any favors. They're all about making money so they're not going to cut you any slack. You'll have much better luck with an independent shop or mechanic that will charge you just what it takes them to do the job and not what the service book says they can charge for it.

Regardless, letting other people work on your rig is always going to be fairly costly. Labor rates in the Peoples Republic of California are anywhere from $110/hr all the way up to $150/hr (local dealership rate). This is why I'm always trying to encourage people to work on their own rigs. I understand if you just don't have the time. I get plenty of time off with my career and I don't have kids, so it's easier for me to find the time to tackle these jobs.

I know I'm paying a double premium for having someone else do it and then having it be a Toyota dealership. It's in to have something redone that the independent shop a mile away did wrong. I don't have an independent shop I trust now.

I reread my owner's manual. It says to conduct an audible inspection, adjust if necessary at 60 and 120K. The schedule only goes to 120K so I'm in the dark at 300K. The explanation of Scheduled Maintenance Items says "Inspect for excessive tappet noise and/or engine vibration and adjust if necessary." I think I'm going to let it ride based on what the manual recommends.

 

[nobb]

I read up a little on what it takes to do this on our engines and it sounded a lot more involved than a 15 minute job. Have you actually done it on your engine?

Haha nope, I guess it's only in theory. Was hoping you might have it in one of your videos

But either way, once you have the covers off, it shouldn't take much time rotating your cams to TDC and quickly sliding in a shim to check all 6 valves.

 

[giovannie23]

I havent done valve adjustments on this particular engine
But i have done a couple 4 cly honda engines
And if the 3.4 is anything like those when adjusting the valves
Then the engine has to be in tdc for each cylinder stroke
So if your adjusting valve number 1 your gonna be at the og tdc
But when you go to adjust valve number 2 you have to find tdc for that cylinder
Usually i stick a really long straw in the cylinder and watch it move till it reaches its peak thats how to find tdc for each cylinder
It should be the same process to check them
Which is kinda time consuming and burtal on your back

 

[potomacduck]

I'm at 406,000 without a valve adjustment and everything seems fine.

.

 

[St Runner]

Just checking the tolerance is pretty quick. Once the covers are off bring it to tdc and measure all the valves that are completely closed. rotate 180 degrees and measure again only the ones that are closed. Do this four times and you will have every valve. It helps to have a chart pre made so you can write down which valve is at what tolerance. There is a good amount of tolerance when the valves are closed, meaning it does not change measurement if you are not exactly on tdc

 

[MDTrailrider]

I'm at 406,000 without a valve adjustment and everything seems fine.

.

Good. That gives me some comfort with my decision to follow the recommendations in the owner's manual.

 

[Konkordmusk]

I already researched doing the valves and gaskets myself and it's more work than I have time for. I have it in for something else anyway.

It appears to me that most of the work is getting the covers off and back on to replace the gaskets. Once the covers are off how much more effort does it take to check the valve clearances? That is my question. Is it 15 or 90 minutes? 90 extra minutes is what I would expect to adjust them.

It annoys me that they want to charge me $505 + ripoff shop fees to bloat the cost and tax but not do the reasonable extra work while the valves are accessible. I doubt I'll take it there again. They're losing my trust.

90 minutes is absolutely fair for adjusting them, given that the camshafts have to come out; but it took me no longer than 10 minutes (and a beer) to check all of mine.

 

[kkastner0]

Valve adjustment question

Hi there sorry to jump in on a thread that's not mine but I am new and don't have permission to make my own post yet and I have a related question.

I am in a similar situation with a 2002 SR5 w/ 252K (5VZFE). I had intermittent cylinder misfires (P0300/P0306) accompanied by a rough idle, but only occasionally and usually on hot days. No fluid leaks or burning oil and it runs perfect most of the time. I replaced plugs and wires and reset the computer and it ran fine for 3k miles before throwing up the check engine light again. I swapped the coils and reset the code again and it ran smoothly for another 2k miles with no engine light. It just recently went back on and cylinder 6 was still the culprit (coils are good) so I checked the compression and it came back low at 110PSI. At this point I did not have the tools to do a leakdown test so I took it to a mechanic to try to pinpoint the issue. He believes that the best case scenario is a tight valve on the exhaust side which will require having the valves checked and adjusted for $700 (includes new gaskets for valve covers, plenum, etc).

After scouring just about every 4runner forum out there I cannot find a single case where a 5VZFE with a misfiring cylinder was solved with a valve adjustment. Seems more likely that it is going to be a burnt valve or an issue like this one where the entire head needs to be pulled. I am capable of pulling the valve covers and replacing the gaskets myself but it looks like I will need special tools and an assortment of shims to actually adjust the valves and I am not confident enough to attempt it. Is it worth it to pay to have the valves adjusted? Is there a possibility this could actually fix the issue or am I just wasting money and opening up pandora's box? If anyone has experience with a similar case I would love to hear it.

 

[MDTrailrider]

The dealership had issues with my 4Runner. They kept it for 11 days. When I got it home I looked under the hood and noticed that some of the parts were not reinstalled correctly. The top of the engine doesn't look like how I vaguely recall it looking like all these years while changing the oil. It seems like something is missing. I never considered the possibility that a Toyota dealership could totally screw up my 4Runner. There's a lot more to this story than I want to write on my tablet. I am frustrated and concerned.

Can someone post a photo of the top of their 98 4Runner V6 engine when it was new or all original?

 

[MDTrailrider]

Hi there sorry to jump in on a thread that's not mine but I am new and don't have permission to make my own post yet and I have a related question.

I am in a similar situation with a 2002 SR5 w/ 252K (5VZFE). I had intermittent cylinder misfires (P0300/P0306) accompanied by a rough idle, but only occasionally and usually on hot days. No fluid leaks or burning oil and it runs perfect most of the time. I replaced plugs and wires and reset the computer and it ran fine for 3k miles before throwing up the check engine light again. I swapped the coils and reset the code again and it ran smoothly for another 2k miles with no engine light. It just recently went back on and cylinder 6 was still the culprit (coils are good) so I checked the compression and it came back low at 110PSI. At this point I did not have the tools to do a leakdown test so I took it to a mechanic to try to pinpoint the issue. He believes that the best case scenario is a tight valve on the exhaust side which will require having the valves checked and adjusted for $700 (includes new gaskets for valve covers, plenum, etc).

After scouring just about every 4runner forum out there I cannot find a single case where a 5VZFE with a misfiring cylinder was solved with a valve adjustment. Seems more likely that it is going to be a burnt valve or an issue like this one where the entire head needs to be pulled. I am capable of pulling the valve covers and replacing the gaskets myself but it looks like I will need special tools and an assortment of shims to actually adjust the valves and I am not confident enough to attempt it. Is it worth it to pay to have the valves adjusted? Is there a possibility this could actually fix the issue or am I just wasting money and opening up pandora's box? If anyone has experience with a similar case I would love to hear it.

Sorry about your problem. It seems that you should verify if the valve is stuck or burnt first. I believe that what ever is wrong with that cylinder can be verified with a scope or other diagnostic testing first.

 

[mtbtim]

The dealership had issues with my 4Runner. They kept it for 11 days. When I got it home I looked under the hood and noticed that some of the parts were not reinstalled correctly. The top of the engine doesn't look like how I vaguely recall it looking like all these years while changing the oil. It seems like something is missing. I never considered the possibility that a Toyota dealership could totally screw up my 4Runner. There's a lot more to this story than I want to write on my tablet. I am frustrated and concerned.

Can someone post a photo of the top of their 98 4Runner V6 engine when it was new or all original?

Dude, welcome to the club. I made the huge mistake to let them do the rear axle seal job for me after I read up that I either needed to have my own press to get the parts off the axle or find a machine shop I trust to do the work. I don't have a press and after reading about some people saying a machine shop either scored their axles cutting parts off or they didn't press the parts back in the right positions on the axles, I decided to let the "Experts" at Toyota do it. The guy chosen to work on my truck was one of their most experienced mechanics with this job and he did it wrong. My driver side was leaking within 5000 miles. Luckily I learned how to check if they are leaking from [MENTION=78997]Drcoffee[/MENTION] by pulling the ABS sensor. I went back and made them do the grease test on the bad side. The mechanic who did the job didn't even know about doing a grease test to verify where the lip of the seal was riding on the retainer. It was riding right on the edge of the bevel and polished surface of the retainer. Made them flip the retainer, put a new bearing on since the new one was contaminated with gear oil and then had them pull the passenger side and flip that retainer as well along with verifying the position with the grease test.

At this point, I'd rather not let anyone work on my rig if I can help it. $150/hr for incompetency. Yeah, I'll pass.

I'd take a picture of my 2000 engine for you because they're probably pretty similar but I'm stuck at work right now.

 

[giovannie23]

The dealership had issues with my 4Runner. They kept it for 11 days. When I got it home I looked under the hood and noticed that some of the parts were not reinstalled correctly. The top of the engine doesn't look like how I vaguely recall it looking like all these years while changing the oil. It seems like something is missing. I never considered the possibility that a Toyota dealership could totally screw up my 4Runner. There's a lot more to this story than I want to write on my tablet. I am frustrated and concerned.

Can someone post a photo of the top of their 98 4Runner V6 engine when it was new or all original?

can you post a picture of yours that way we can all see whats going on?

edit: i also never take any of my rides to a shop or dealership for this reason
i don't even like getting an alignment..thats something i really need to learn
it seems they never get my steering wheel dead center and still pulls no matter what shop i go to