Class Participation Time!
- Thread starter BlackWorksInc
- Start date
88mustanggt
New member
A big thank you for the following people for indulging my insanity:
[MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] [MENTION=83083]rigtec[/MENTION] [MENTION=78273]Jeremy556[/MENTION] [MENTION=84120]nevada[/MENTION] [MENTION=85344]88mustanggt[/MENTION] [MENTION=108337]lelandr[/MENTION] [MENTION=112450]RAWTAZ[/MENTION] [MENTION=632]toyo[/MENTION] [MENTION=32290]gm350reratliff[/MENTION]f [MENTION=28436]CMoor50[/MENTION] [MENTION=70181]Gatafly[/MENTION]
If you guys liked this type of thread, I can maybe make a better case study in the future that's more structured and is a bit easier for everyone to participate in; I know this one was very out there for most people (hell it was challenging for me!)
Like this post if you want more "Class Participation Time" in the future!
Post Note-
People are still welcome to post how they would have approached this vehicle from a diagnostic perspective and/or what they would do differently.
I liked it, I wish there was more stuff like this on this forum, this forum doesn't really get to techy its normally very basic stuff. I frequent eectunning.org and it is full of stuff that makes your head hurt and I love it. its also probably due to the 4runner is a well built and designed vehicle that doesn't fail like most of the competition does.
my shop seems to be plagued with getting the crap that no one else was able to figure out, and because I run it I end up being the one to figure it out. so more practice the better and I like seeing how other people go threw the process.
gshadow325
New member
from a electrical standpoint.
- were you able to look at the wiring for the alarm system and see where they went out of the car to under the hood? the gromit going out might have been compromised by the way they went out.
- i would look over the harnesses and check for opened up harnesses. a "installer" looking for wires could have cut some wires. or some wires opened up and touching.
-what is the wire colors for the skid control ecu? this is located in passenger footwell right? under the pass glove box?
-do you have pictures of the "alarm"
if its a alarm there would be no wires going to green/black at the ignition harness from the alarm. should have only been two wires, one to red or white/blue and black/red. any more wires i would suspect there is a remote starter too.
i only suggest this since its rare for a skid ecu to crap out right? any liquid damage on the skid ecu?
- were you able to look at the wiring for the alarm system and see where they went out of the car to under the hood? the gromit going out might have been compromised by the way they went out.
- i would look over the harnesses and check for opened up harnesses. a "installer" looking for wires could have cut some wires. or some wires opened up and touching.
-what is the wire colors for the skid control ecu? this is located in passenger footwell right? under the pass glove box?
-do you have pictures of the "alarm"
if its a alarm there would be no wires going to green/black at the ignition harness from the alarm. should have only been two wires, one to red or white/blue and black/red. any more wires i would suspect there is a remote starter too.
i only suggest this since its rare for a skid ecu to crap out right? any liquid damage on the skid ecu?
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Fascinating thread to read through and catch up on.
The real meat for me is the idea of reflashing the VSC ECU. After poring over schematics of the 2007 and 2008 4Runners, I find no difference in connections to the VSC ECU, just minor terminology changes.
Went through all this to see if there was a "clean" way to enable the VSC disable switch function of the 2008 on the 2007. The hack that is floating around works, but has its limitations. The factory version is clearly superior.
As far as I can determine, it is purely internal to the VSC ECU EEPROM coding response to pin 43 being grounded momentarily in the pattern described in the owners' manual. Pin 43 has no function on 4WD models, is the "LSD" switch on 2WD. Two different flashes evidently.
If a 2007 ECU could be reflashed and a 2008 switch added, it appears the later VSC cut capability could be had. Now if this is so, merely (hah!) a matter of sweet talking a Toyota tech into doing the deed.
BlackWorksInc
New member
The alarm one of those cheap under dash units that splice the ignition switch with a relay and tap into a ton of wires for door locks and such.
The wiring was fairly intact and not damaged, it was all tapped under the dash. I don't have a picture of it. But it was just a basic blue box KARR brand unit; just a glorified kill switch.
The Skid Control ECU on this vehicle is built into the ABS/VSC/TRAC system on the side of the master cylinder unit. Older models like my '04 have a separate unit from the ABS solenoid control unit in the side of the master cylinder.
The wire on terminal EX1 doesn't go anywhere (because this vehicle is 2WD and most of the 4WD wiring doesn't exist for the CDL circuit) it just ends at a junction block and wasn't tapped into, which is what directed me to thinking its an internal issue as there's no circuit for the unit to test.
gshadow325
New member
did they go thru the driver's side rubber gromit for siren or hood pin? thats where it may have cut something depending what tool they used to do it.
im taking what i see happen in the aftermarket world and making sure nothing was compromised.
btw interesting thread. some real thoughtful responses from everyone that contributed and probably have many readers wishing you worked at their dealership! i know i do!
im taking what i see happen in the aftermarket world and making sure nothing was compromised.
btw interesting thread. some real thoughtful responses from everyone that contributed and probably have many readers wishing you worked at their dealership! i know i do!
I thoroughly enjoyed this type of thread and it gives me a better understanding and appreciation as to what type of scenarios a technician can come across.
It also has also clearly demonstrated there are vast skill-set level differences amongst ASE technicians in the industry.
It also has also clearly demonstrated there are vast skill-set level differences amongst ASE technicians in the industry.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Not yet, I haven't had the chance to call TAS yet. I spent all day wrestling with a Dodge Charger (2.7L V6) with what looks like a leaking thermostat. Put the new thermostat in (which is behind the A/C Compressor and is a ***** to get to, AllData lies that its a 1.8hr job, it LIESSS) and the hose clamp started leaking. Put a new hose clamp on and now it seems to be leaking from the bypass tube bolt (which make no sense), so now I have spent all day on this Charger; the brand new thermostat, housing, and gasket are on my tool box and my shop foreman and I are scratching our heads in confusion as nothing looks wrong. On top of that there's what seems to be a small hole next to the thermostat that seems to be weeping (I don't remember the hole when I diagnosed the thermostat, which was actually leaking,) but we're thinking it might be the water pump weephole (because Chrysler in their infinite wisdom put the water pump INSIDE the timing chain cover to be run off the chain for this motor.)
Needless to say, today was just an all around **** day...
Update-
Well, looks like that IS the weep hole for the water pump... that's going to make tomorrow so much more fun...
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BlackWorksInc
New member
[MENTION=78273]Jeremy556[/MENTION]
So I did manage to finally call TAS and talk with the guy (not entirely surprised by their answer or suggestion), you can't program the ABS units. The TAS tech on the phone didn't seem too knowledgeable, but basically the unit needs to be replaced as an assembly so we P&A'd a master cylinder assembly (apparently you can order the unit without the accumulator pump and tank now, so its slightly less expensive.)
I'm still trying to figure out why the unit suddenly decided to think like a 4WD model...
If anyone who has a '07-'09 4Runner with the 1GR-FE 4.0L V6 in either 2WD or 4WD please post the part number printed on the side of the Skid Control ECU bolted to the master cylinder that'd be helpful (please post year and if 2WD or 4WD.) At this point its more for my own personal curiosity than anything.
The part number on this vehicle is 89541-60060, so I am curious if someone tried to change it out in the past at an independent shop (because I don't see any history on it in Toyota's system.)
So I did manage to finally call TAS and talk with the guy (not entirely surprised by their answer or suggestion), you can't program the ABS units. The TAS tech on the phone didn't seem too knowledgeable, but basically the unit needs to be replaced as an assembly so we P&A'd a master cylinder assembly (apparently you can order the unit without the accumulator pump and tank now, so its slightly less expensive.)
I'm still trying to figure out why the unit suddenly decided to think like a 4WD model...
If anyone who has a '07-'09 4Runner with the 1GR-FE 4.0L V6 in either 2WD or 4WD please post the part number printed on the side of the Skid Control ECU bolted to the master cylinder that'd be helpful (please post year and if 2WD or 4WD.) At this point its more for my own personal curiosity than anything.
The part number on this vehicle is 89541-60060, so I am curious if someone tried to change it out in the past at an independent shop (because I don't see any history on it in Toyota's system.)
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Rocket61
New member
Here you go, 07 V6 4WD
Attachments
No need for a photo of mine, same-same part number.
2007 V6 4WD Sport Edition.
I am very curious how the VSC ECU "knows" if it is working with a 2WD or 4WD chassis. Have recently spent a lot of time examining the wiring diagrams of the 07 and 08 to see if there was a way to "enable" the 08 VSC cut on pin 43. Pin 43 is used on the 07 2WD for the AUTO LSD, but does nothing on the 4WD. This tells me the ECU disables that function when something triggers the software which chassis it is bolted to.
Highly doubt Toyota would go to the expense of having two sets of programmed VSC ECU when a simple pin pulled high or low could switch the software mapping. Might be nothing more than the presence of the 4WD relay box.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Based on the various part numbers for the Skid Control ECUs I saw on the Tacomas, FJs, and 5th gens on our lot (all using the same HydraBoost assemblies, but different ECU part numbers); I'd say that Toyota does seem to have gone with a 2WD & 4WD Skid Control ECU (there's 3 Part numbers when looking in our parts department for a 2008 model year, but it does not show if its 4WD or 2WD; even more confusing there's one labelled "Baja" which I have never seen...)
Seems like an expensive way to do it when computer memory is cheap and you could just access different sections as needed depending on vehicle it is pugged into, rather than stock all those different parts.
Found it interesting is reading up on doing the VSC cut modification how similar the FJ VSC ECU was. The pin the 4Runner uses to tell the ECU that the ADD is engaged is used on the FJ to tell it the rear e-locker is engaged.
What that tells the software would be interesting. Evidently something quite different depending on the vehicle.
Still a shame these cannot be re-flashed as that has become fairly common for some engine ECUs.
Found it interesting is reading up on doing the VSC cut modification how similar the FJ VSC ECU was. The pin the 4Runner uses to tell the ECU that the ADD is engaged is used on the FJ to tell it the rear e-locker is engaged.
What that tells the software would be interesting. Evidently something quite different depending on the vehicle.
Still a shame these cannot be re-flashed as that has become fairly common for some engine ECUs.
BlackWorksInc
New member
Customer bought the new Master Cylinder and Skid Control ECU (P/N 89541-35051) and the issue is fixed in case anyone was wondering.
Feel free to keep posting ECU part numbers though, I think the unit in the vehicle was from a Land Cruiser Prado?
Feel free to keep posting ECU part numbers though, I think the unit in the vehicle was from a Land Cruiser Prado?
BlackWorksInc
New member
That's the thing, Toyota doesn't seem to mention anything about the part number for the ECU. The number doesn't seem to match what is on the side of the case when you look it up in the parts catalog (probably because its not available separately.) What's even more confusing is that for the 2008 model year there is what seems to be 2 different ECU/Master Cylinder part numbers but both are for V6/V8; but it does not directly state if its for 4WD/2WD or SR5/Limited, CA/Federal, and/or any indication why there's two different units.
I'm not entirely sure how compatible they are, the unit installed in the customer's vehicle originally does not seem be a 2WD unit (at least based on how its acting) and the only reference I found for the 89541-60060 was a "Land Cruiser 120" (Land Cruiser Prado sold over seas) from non-US Ebay Sellers and non-US part sellers. That's why I was asking if people could post the P/N of their units so I could get an idea of how many different P/N for the ECUs there are.
As for cost, it varies a bit; apparently you can now purchase the Master Cylinder units without the accumulator pumps and tanks which helps bring the overall cost down. Without the accumulator pump & tank its about $1000k, if you get the entire unit is about $1900-ish.
