Clutch burn

[Previologist]

Was driving my 97 5-speed up a moderately steep road tonight and something felt funny. I noticed the tach would shoot up higher than it should after a gear shift, kind of like I was on ice. But I don't think there was any ice, although its possible there was black ice since it was right at 32-33 degrees and foggy.
Anyway I then got the unmistakeable smell of something burning.

I was 30 miles from home and in town for weekly shopping so I headed to the nearest parts store, checked the fluid, and it was slightly low but not a lot. I added some fresh DOT3 and finished my shopping and got home without incident, but the smell lingered and it seemed to rev up briefly a couple more times after shifting.

Never done a clutch and don't want to, but can't afford to have someone else do it either. I'm already saving pennies and gathering parts for replacing valve cover gaskets and timing belt replacement next year, which I plan to do myself. She has 308,000 miles and lots of body rust but the frame is good and I still want to squeeze a few more years out of it.

Not sure what my next step should be re the clutch, as this now jumps to the front of the list.

 

[Sparky 97Runner]

Not sure what my next step should be re the clutch, as this now jumps to the front of the list.

Watch Timmy the Toolmans videos on replacing the clutch. Then order the parts and make sure you have the right tools. You'll want a buddy to help you muscle the transmission out then back in. From your description it sounds like you will be dead in the water soon so you are correct that this jumps to the front of the list.

 

[weberlukas74]

Was driving my 97 5-speed up a moderately steep road tonight and something felt funny. I noticed the tach would shoot up higher than it should after a gear shift, kind of like I was on ice. But I don't think there was any ice, although its possible there was black ice since it was right at 32-33 degrees and foggy.
Anyway I then got the unmistakeable smell of something burning.

I was 30 miles from home and in town for weekly shopping so I headed to the nearest parts store, checked the fluid, and it was slightly low but not a lot. I added some fresh DOT3 and finished my shopping and got home without incident, but the smell lingered and it seemed to rev up briefly a couple more times after shifting.

Never done a clutch and don't want to, but can't afford to have someone else do it either. I'm already saving pennies and gathering parts for replacing valve cover gaskets and timing belt replacement next year, which I plan to do myself. She has 308,000 miles and lots of body rust but the frame is good and I still want to squeeze a few more years out of it.

Not sure what my next step should be re the clutch, as this now jumps to the front of the list.

Since you're into fixing things yourself and you've got those valve cover gaskets and timing belt replacements coming up, it might be a good idea to take a quick look under the hood at your clutch system. Just see if there are any obvious signs of wear or leaks around the master and slave cylinders. Oh, and don't forget to check the clutch fluid reservoir to make sure it's all good. Considering the mileage, it might not hurt to inspect the clutch itself if you're up for it.

If you do find that the clutch is indeed the culprit, and you decide to replace it, think about grabbing a quality clutch kit that includes the pressure plate, clutch disc, and throwout bearing. Also, it's wise to inspect the flywheel for any signs of damage or wear. If necessary, resurfacing or replacing it could improve the longevity of the new clutch.

 

[JohnMc]

Yeah, if it's slipping under power, it's 99% gone. You might coax a few hundred more miles out of it by driving it really gingerly, not using full throttle, and NOT slipping it under power. But really, it's going to get worse, hold less torque, until it won't really move the car any more.

Start planning on a clutch, one way or another. It's not a terrible job, but it involves pulling the trans out. Which is heavy, and because of the transfer case, lopsided and awkward. I'd suggest finding a trans jack to borrow, or get an el-cheapo from Harbor Freight. Makes it a whole lot easier.

 

[Previologist]

Yeah, if it's slipping under power, it's 99% gone. You might coax a few hundred more miles out of it by driving it really gingerly, not using full throttle, and NOT slipping it under power. But really, it's going to get worse, hold less torque, until it won't really move the car any more.

Start planning on a clutch, one way or another. It's not a terrible job, but it involves pulling the trans out. Which is heavy, and because of the transfer case, lopsided and awkward. I'd suggest finding a trans jack to borrow, or get an el-cheapo from Harbor Freight. Makes it a whole lot easier.

I don't plan to drive it, and if I do, it will only be to work or the grocery store (5 miles).

This really sucks. I don't mind brakes and under the hood work but I'm not sure I want to do this particular job myself. I think I'll at least get a quote before deciding what to do. If I had money, it would be an easy choice. The only reason I do my own work is poverty. Thanks for the tranny jack tip.

 

[JohnMc]

Not counting any tools you might not have (like the trans jack), the parts could cost as little as $150 or so, if you get a cheap kit. If you're not doing anything unusual no need to get anything particularly upgraded, stock clutches are fine. A bit over $100 gets you a chnesium clutch kit on Amazon. $170 or so gets you a no-name chinesium kit with a flywheel, if you take it apart and the slipping has overheated your flywheel enough to damage it.

Labor at a shop is probably going to run $400 - $600, depending. And they're likely not going to want to install dirt cheap parts either, depends again. So you're probably looking at $800 - $1000 having a shop do it.

On the plus side, the 4Runner sits to tall you can generally pull the trans with the 4Runner sitting on its wheels. Take out the crossmembers, pull the trans back and then down, and then back further to give you access to the clutch/flywheel.

It's a PITA, but if you had an auto trans going out (or pink milkshaked) you'd be looking at a much higher potential cost.

 

[brillo_76]

Once they start de-clamping while driving its over. Your flywheel maybe blued from the slipping of the clutch material. I smoked my 1997 5 speed good when I got stuck in the mud. That was the complete end of the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel. :-( Bummer but reality.

 

[phattyduck]

Once they start de-clamping while driving its over. Your flywheel maybe blued from the slipping of the clutch material. I smoked my 1997 5 speed good when I got stuck in the mud. That was the complete end of the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel. :-( Bummer but reality.

Better than rebuilding an auto. (though the auto is good for other things)

-Charlie

 

[davidch]

I have replaced 3 Gen3 4Runner clutches and 1 Gen1 Tacoma clutch. And I have replaced a clutch in an Acura Vigor. (This was much more difficult.)

Somewhere in all that I devised two tricks that made reinstalling the gearbox-transfer assembly much easier.

I, too, used Harbor Freight's transmission jack.

You have to obtain two front axles from a small motorcycle. Your basic 70-100-125-175-200 Honda Yamaha Suzuki Kawasaki dirt bike. Most of them have an axle that looks very much like my photo. These are plentiful on eBay.

I used these items to pass through the lower bolt holes in the bell housing and into the block. They have the same thread as your Toyota's transmission mounting bolts. Being long and smooth, they serve as guides as you wheel your transmission jack forward. In all ways, getting the transmission aligned was much easier, I found.

The intent is not that the axles support the gearbox: they're guides only.

Once the gearbox unit is in place, install the top mounting bolts, remove the axles, install the lower mounting bolts, and torque away.

The strap provided with the HF jack is a rather cheesy and wobbly way to affix the gearbox to the jack.. I made the H-F jack more useful by fabricating a 1/4" metal plate so the gearbox could be level and firmly affixed to the jack. The other photos show the jack with the plate and Vigor gearbox.

Nota bene: Never volunteer to replace a Vigor's clutch.

Finally, I stress that I'm not saying this is how to do it. I'm saying this is how I did it. If someone else has, elsewhere, already explained a similar alignment method, I apologize for the repetition.

 

[Devbot]

300k is pretty dang good for a clutch, but as said it's definitely time. When clutches start to go they die in a hurry because load gets spread unevenly.
Dropping a trans isn't necessarily hard, just very tedious work. Set a weekend aside, be patient and take your time and you should be fine.
That said, it would be wise to replace as much as you can while you're there if you put in all that work to take it out. I would put this at a much higher priority than valve covers and timing belt.
I'm gonna bet a shop will quote a minimum of $1000, depending on hourly rates and how fast they work. It would go a lot faster on a lift like what they have, but some mechanics have been known to milk stuff like this for extra cash. I wouldn't take it to Toyota unless you want to be quoted the price of a new car - when I got my trans fluid flushed at my local dealership they tried to sell me new valve cover gaskets for $800.

 

[Previologist]

Yeah I def won't go to Toyota for this job, they soaked me when I had a new engine put in my Previa but they were the only ones I trusted who would actually accept the job. Called one local shop and they didn't seem too excited about this clutch job, and there's only one other shop in town. Since I can't do it for a couple months no matter what, I will probably study the Toolman videos until I feel dumb enough to try it myself.

I like the guide bolt idea. I have a 3 ton HF floor jack so I may go with a tranny adapter for that. May. I need to research that some more. I'm not a metal worker so I won't be fabricating anything.

I'd gladly pay a shop $500 labor to do this for me, but not $800-1000

 

[phattyduck]

The right sized bolts with a smooth shank and the head cut off (with a slot cut for a screwdriver) can be useful as dowels to align and install a transmission in some cases. I have no idea if it will help on the 4Runner.

The two lower fasteners on Subaru transmissions are (mostly) smooth studs for this exact purpose. It still takes a bit of work to get everything aligned and slotted back together. You might need to rotate the output shaft of the trans (leave it in gear) to align the trans input shaft with the clutch splines.

And it could be worse - the MT for the Celica Alltrac take multiple different directions of rotation in the right order to get the transmission and transfer case to clear the block and align for installation - and you have to pull the engine with the trans to do the clutch...

-Charlie

 

[JohnMc]

I'd gladly pay a shop $500 labor to do this for me, but not $800-1000

$800 - 1000 is what I was thinking the whole cost would be from an indy shop, not just the labor.

I'm probably a bit low in today's economy though.

 

[Bad Luck]

Yeah I def won't go to Toyota for this job, they soaked me when I had a new engine put in my Previa but they were the only ones I trusted who would actually accept the job. Called one local shop and they didn't seem too excited about this clutch job, and there's only one other shop in town. Since I can't do it for a couple months no matter what, I will probably study the Toolman videos until I feel dumb enough to try it myself.

I like the guide bolt idea. I have a 3 ton HF floor jack so I may go with a tranny adapter for that. May. I need to research that some more. I'm not a metal worker so I won't be fabricating anything.

I'd gladly pay a shop $500 labor to do this for me, but not $800-1000

Depending on your area shop labor can be anywhere from $75-$250 per hour so keep that in mind. You can always call a few shops and ask what their labor rate is.

For anyone that's curious ProDemand shows flywheel replacement at 5.8 hours labor for a 4wd 5VZ. That does not include bleeding the hydraulic system if they open that up or replacing the pilot bearing. I didn't have to open the clutch hydraulics. I chose to just unbolt the slave from the transmission. I also left the transfer case on the transmission. Now would be a good time to consider replacing the rear main seal and installing a seal saver as well. You'll need a 3 foot extension and a wobble socket to get the top bell housing bolts though.

 

[Previologist]

It might also be time to think about not sinking any money into this rustbucket, as hard as it would be to let her go.

Would cost me at least triple all the work it needs to replace it though, so being broke makes replacing it a pretty unattractive option...

 

[Pyral]

Seems like all the problems you have are from wear items, so at least you know for sure what needs to be done. You should replace the rear main seal while your at it.

The clutch is priority #1 since you can damage other stuff like the flywheel if you keep driving. So it's a good thing you don't plan on driving it.

Remember to buy the Aisin clutch kit, they sell them on rock auto. Any time there is an Aisin/Denso part, it'll work just as well as the "Toyota" one.

 

[Previologist]

Well both shops in town have declined the job...so its been hard to get a quote!

Toyota was pretty much the same as another clutch/tranny shop, $1300-1500 including rear main and flywheel resurfacing

Will try a couple small indy guys but its looking like home cooking is my only practical choice...Hello "personal growth"out:

 

[brillo_76]

Well both shops in town have declined the job...so its been hard to get a quote!

Toyota was pretty much the same as another clutch/tranny shop, $1300-1500 including rear main and flywheel resurfacing

Will try a couple small indy guys but its looking like home cooking is my only practical choice...Hello "personal growth"out:

You can do it.. We have faith in you.. Just take your time and follow the service manuals or one of the many you tube videos of people changing them.

I can still remember my first clutch change on a 1983 Toyota 5 speed, along with transmission and transfer after the transmission shop just changed my main rear output bearing and didn't even bother to rinse the metal filings out of the transmission. So I got to do the job again with a swap of the transfer and transmission from a parts mobile back in the mid to late 1990s.

 

[JohnMc]

Get the parts in and ready to go. Maybe get a flywheel that's easy to return (i.e. local store?) just in case. You may or may not need it, but from the sound of your first post in this thread I think you might.

And get all the tools ready to go as well. 1/2 in ratchet set, several long extensions and a wobble drive make it waaaay easier to get some of those transfer case bolts. Take off the transmission crossmember and trans mount, and let the drivetrain lean back, then get to those from back behind the trans with the extensions.

Even if you've never done it before, you should be able to get it done in a weekend. Main thing being sure you have all the parts you need on hand.

Also, Autozone has free rental tools of various types. Like a torque wrench. If you don't have one and don't want to buy one now. Basically, it's a used tool they 'sell' you at a somewhat inflated price, but will refund you 100% if you bring it back in 90 days. You want to use a torque wrench on the flywheel bolts, and the clutch plate bolts. Too tight is as bad as too loose on bolts like that.

A big variable is rust, you mentioned rust on it earlier. Just dealing with crusty stuck bolts is a PITA. I live in the salt belt and sometimes you just spend a long time on a single bolt. Last time I had the trans out on mine (doing a crawl box) I struggled with the 4 bolts holding the trans crossmember in. Eventually I got 3 removed and just left the REALLY stubborn 4th one in place and pivoted the crossmember down out of the way.

 

[rglsr]

I just went through this, ended up outsourcing a clutch job due to too much work/life/other auto projects sapping my time. If you go with a reputable independent shop it ain't cheap, shop rates have really gone up. (>$1000)

There are other items to also consider while you're "in there", like flywheel bolts. It's good practice to replace them if the flywheel is coming out.