cold power steering

[alumarine]

Bit of a topic deviation, but stop idling your vehicles cold... cold oil and low pump pressure (idle) don't do an engine good.

That may have been true a long time ago but with modern engines idling will not cause any noticeable harm.

All my vehicles and many, many others have idled every winter day for 15 minutes several times a day.
200,000 miles on some with zero issues.

Some police cars idle all day long with zero issues.

 

[Brian.]

That may have been true a long time ago but with modern engines idling will not cause any noticeable harm.

All my vehicles and many, many others have idled every winter day for 15 minutes several times a day.
200,000 miles on some with zero issues.

Some police cars idle all day long with zero issues.

Your engine, your money. I'm just telling you it's bad, based on direct personal experience over the last ~25 years (I'm a motorcycle mechanic, motorcycles tend to suffer from a *LOT* of cold idling). Even with synthetics, nikasil plated cylinders, coated piston skirts, etc... there's typically cylinder wall scoring within a couple years (most motorcycles only see ~3k miles a year, so that's a LOT fewer cold starts than your average car). It gets lots worse from there, right on up to non-running in under 10k due to cylinder wall wear. Doesn't matter if it's a drowsy cruiser engine or a high-strung sportbike, they all suffer about the same.

Police cars idle WARM... and they're pretty trashed by 100k miles anyway (brother-in-law is on city maintenance, 6 car police "fleet" and a bunch of other trucks). Yes, that's "current" as of 2020 and with a rigorous maintenance schedule.

But, like I said, your vehicle, your money. I don't have a money tree so I like my stuff to last, I also assume others want their stuff to last. As the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[Malcolm99]

I switched my Syn ATF PS to regular ATF DEX/merc III this year to flush out the tranny and PS while it was all apart, been mild this year(we usually see -30-35*F for a week or so straight speratically and get winter for 6-7months) but even at -15*F noticed it was stiff for the first 20min or so, idling helped a lil, but even more idling after a good drive and left parked for 5-10min when the engine was really warmed up helped. I don't think idling these 5VZ-Fe's will hurt them, they are basically an industrial forklift motor from Hino stuck in a Toyota. Heck in Winnipeg people run the vehicle all night if they don't have a block heater or hydro. Always thought vehicles should have an hour meter for this reason myself, even cab drivers run at idle almost all day, non issue. I don't concider 6 vehicles a fleet, if so I have a fleet of Toyota's and they all idle for 15min if you want to be able to see when you drive. Now I park the 4R in a heated shop and life is much better. Otherwise synthetic fluids, warm up time and a block heater is the only way to go.

 

[3bears]

maybe idling is hard for a rig, but thats why I run good synthetic, dont oil pumps work when idling ? ( yes but not at max pressure) . True, I would not let a motorcycle or anything aircooled sit and idle for long.
so for me part of warming up is for defrosting windshields and people comfort. If it si shortening its life some, well sadly thats part of living in northern alaska. Novemeber to march we rarely see temps above zero...mostly -10 is "warm"
It has a "toyota" block heater, a tranny heater and a electric battery blanket. The radiator has a shield in front of it blocking half of it. It can be plugged in all night, but in the morning, even after 10 minutes of idling, its still blowing chilly air, stiff power steering and slow to shift. I then drive my grandaughter to shcool, and by the time I get there ( 13 minutes) the temp gauge is just hitting half way. There are days, even after idle, that driving to school we have our coats zipped up and gloves on. A/C is dosconnected so its not trying to push cold air when defroster on, will have the rig in air recycle mode. Rear heater on.
270k and a few weeks ago, while doing a major tune up and inspection, compression, leak down, radiator pressure check and radiator chemical dye ( to detect for exhaust gas) , were all perfect. Rig has spent its entire life in alaska and Im sure IM not the only one that has let this rig sit and idle in its life.

 

[phattyduck]

Idling is extra wear, but not excessive wear. When temps are well below freezing, a "short" amount of idle warm up time is totally reasonable. Part of the cost of doing business in harsh environments... In the owners manual it states:

"1. With your foot off the accelerator pedal,
crank the engine by turning the key to
"START". Release it when the engine
starts.
2. After the engine runs for about 10 seconds, you are ready to drive.
If the weather is below freezing, let the
engine warm up for a few minutes before
driving."

I mostly worry about the people 'warming up' their vehicles in above freezing temps... that's a total waste.

There are some other cold weather driving tips in the owners manual - but people that live in those places generally already know them (60% coolant instead of 50/50, thinner engine oil, etc.).

-Charlie

 

[brillo_76]

I know when it gets around single digits. My power steering gets stiff. Granted I keep my internal PS coolers in the radiator for this reason and just change the radiators every 10 years to prevent the milkshake scenario.

Very rarely do we get temps below 0 F for long periods time. A few days maybe a winter. One winter in 2015 it stayed at 0 degrees and below for many weeks.

I agree with others that a synthetic automatic transmission would be much better in really cold temperatures.

Bypassing the heater feature of the internal power steering will cause issues in these very cold temperatures. As this is why they put the cooler in the radiator
that will act as a heater in winter.

I really feel for our brothers and sister up in the really cold winter temperatures that can be very nasty. :-(

Hang in there a few more weeks and will be turning for warmer temperatures.

 

[Bad Luck]

I know when it gets around single digits. My power steering gets stiff. Granted I keep my internal PS coolers in the radiator for this reason and just change the radiators every 10 years to prevent the milkshake scenario.

Very rarely do we get temps below 0 F for long periods time. A few days maybe a winter. One winter in 2015 it stayed at 0 degrees and below for many weeks.

I agree with others that a synthetic automatic transmission would be much better in really cold temperatures.

Bypassing the heater feature of the internal power steering will cause issues in these very cold temperatures. As this is why they put the cooler in the radiator
that will act as a heater in winter.

I really feel for our brothers and sister up in the really cold winter temperatures that can be very nasty. :-(

Hang in there a few more weeks and will be turning for warmer temperatures.

Wait... Do you mean we have a power steering fluid cooler? What do you mean by the "heater feature of the internal power steering"?

 

[Malcolm99]

We don't have a PS "cooler", the hardlines are the PS "cooler", but I guess if you had a manual trans you could run the PS through the Auto trans ATF cooler, this would solve the cold PS for sure on warm up, the other option is to mount the PS hard line so it is touching the rad securely getting a lil radiant heat for us Northerners upon warm up.

 

[3bears]

Wait... Do you mean we have a power steering fluid cooler? What do you mean by the "heater feature of the internal power steering"?

yeah, whats all this, something I missed ?

 

[brillo_76]

Wait... Do you mean we have a power steering fluid cooler? What do you mean by the "heater feature of the internal power steering"?

The power steering cooler is in the radiator. This keeps the fluid cooler and the same temp as the antifreeze and can cool it down. This also works to warm the cold power steering up when the temps are cold as the antifreeze will heat the PS while it runs through your radiator power steering cooler.

Heat transfers both ways with these power steering coolers when they are in antifreeze.

Thus creates a heater for the internal power steering cooler that is your radiator when its very very cold outside.

Those folks that eliminate the radiator power steering cooler. Eliminate the heating feature when its extremely cold... Lots of areas this isn't a big deal. However, in the snow belt and arctic regions that can drop way down. It does help warm up the fluid more quickly then it would naturally.

Liquid heat transfer is a lot more efficient then air heat transfer.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

We don’t have a factory cooler.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cl4Rk]

On plastic tank power steering pumps I hang a magnet off the dipstick.

Interesting! What kind of results have you seen with this method?

 

[3bears]

We don’t have a factory cooler.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

did not think so,

 

[lawrencesam74]

On plastic tank power steering pumps I hang a magnet off the dipstick.

Wow that would have been much less hassle LOL

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Interesting! What kind of results have you seen with this method?

I did it on my 04 grand Cherokee with the 4.7 to remove ware metals because it uses a PS powered cooling fan. Every oil change i wiped the black fuzzies of the N type magnet.

The fans are over 1000 if they fail and are hard to find used.

I was happy with the results.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Skulking]

The power steering cooler is in the radiator. This keeps the fluid cooler and the same temp as the antifreeze and can cool it down. This also works to warm the cold power steering up when the temps are cold as the antifreeze will heat the PS while it runs through your radiator power steering cooler.

Heat transfers both ways with these power steering coolers when they are in antifreeze.

Thus creates a heater for the internal power steering cooler that is your radiator when its very very cold outside.

Those folks that eliminate the radiator power steering cooler. Eliminate the heating feature when its extremely cold... Lots of areas this isn't a big deal. However, in the snow belt and arctic regions that can drop way down. It does help warm up the fluid more quickly then it would naturally.

Liquid heat transfer is a lot more efficient then air heat transfer.

I hope this answers your question.

The radiator only has connections for coolant and for transmission fluid. There isn't a cooler for the power steering fluid in the radiator.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

did not think so,

If he bypassed the trans cooler then he may very well have put the PS return line through it. It be stupid easy to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Malcolm99]

^ that's a win lose situation for us Automatic northerners and for most without a huge/dual external auto trans cooler(s), the only way you can use the ATF cooler for PS up here is if you had a manual trans with auto trans rad(which might be common since manual trans rads are hard to find), like I mentioned you can re-route and zip tie the the PS cooling hardlines to the back of rad for extra heat for warm up for us Auto Northern guys, you would have to hack the PS hardline loop through the plastic shroud, easy pezy, or park it in a warm shop. Speaking of which, try to drive a manual trans at -30* lol, you will wanna let her warm up for 15-20min atleast, you no it's cold when you get in your rig and the seat foam is frozen solid, it's like sitting on a block of ice especially with leather, glad they added Toyota seat warmers to my 99' before I got it, no block heater though, starts fine in -30* but I let her warm up for 20min with defrost on low so it can generate some heat, don't run the defrost full blast on a cold rig, diesels are worse for never warming up doing this.

 

[brillo_76]

You are correct. I had that all messed up.:shrug:
No wonder everyone is saying what in the world. That's my fault..

Doing too many things at once again.

Thanks Guys for the correction. The concept was to heat the fluid in our case you fellows are correct. I do notice that the temp gauge has to be at a certain Point to shift into higher gears auto transmission is still cold.

Did anyone ever look into the Tundra external coolers that are on the ones with the towing packages rigs? Those could be used as external coolers for those who bypass the internal transmission cooler.

I was at a pick a part and all the tocumas and tundras that were there had those on them. Looked like it could be very easy to work for the 3rd gens.
Has some size to them. Might even be a larger diameter line. I didnt look that closely.

I also know that I since we cant get 5 speed manual radiators, I will hook up the trans cooler for my power steering making a cooler and heater... What the heck its going to be there so might as well hook it to something. ;-)

So I will have a power steering cooler and heater by using the internal transmission cooler for the power steering.

 

[Kanoe]

So I will have a power steering cooler and heater by using the internal transmission cooler for the power steering.

Stupid question maybe but does the power steering fluid get hot? I have never noticed it to get beyond warm. I would think running it through the rad would just heat it up unnecessarily.