Cold run noise

[ScotchMau5]

So another thread about noise... I have a 2010 and love it! Recently I have noticed with a really cold start and start driving I can almost hear the front passenger wheel spinning.. A slight vibration and ossolatating noise.. We are talking temps lower than 10F... I'm chalking it up to its just freaking cold out and the truck is stiff and metal is alittle different... On the other hand wheel bearing and cv joints run through my head. It doesn't sound like a wheel bearing to me, my wife's car went through that couple years ago. Anyone get some weird sounds with very low temps? It seems this far that the noise disapates as the truck warms up... I was searching the forums for something similar but didn't find anything quite like this.

 

[rigtec]

So another thread about noise... I have a 2010 and love it! Recently I have noticed with a really cold start and start driving I can almost hear the front passenger wheel spinning.. A slight vibration and ossolatating noise.. We are talking temps lower than 10F... I'm chalking it up to its just freaking cold out and the truck is stiff and metal is alittle different... On the other hand wheel bearing and cv joints run through my head. It doesn't sound like a wheel bearing to me, my wife's car went through that couple years ago. Anyone get some weird sounds with very low temps? It seems this far that the noise disapates as the truck warms up... I was searching the forums for something similar but didn't find anything quite like this.

Hi ScotchMau5,

Welcome to the forum! The most obvious sound that must change as the vehical warms up, is the engine cooling clutch fan, which slowly disengages in cold weather at start up, and then will gradually engage as it is needed when the engine gets hot.

You stated that you thought you could almost hear your R/F wheel spinning as you start to drive, accompanied by vibration and an ossolating noise.
Did you mean spinning as in "losing traction", or simply "turning" along with the other wheels?

I didn't get which trim model you are driving; L.E., T.E., or the SR5; might be helpful to know down the road.

rigtec

 

[ScotchMau5]

Hi rigtec,

Thanks for your response.
I have SR5, R/F seems to be the direction the noise is coming from. I refer to the wheel spinning due to changes in sound pitch as speed increases... Although the noise stays dull, never squelling... Normal wheel func, no loss of traction. No changes in driving..

Mau5

 

[rigtec]

Hi rigtec,

Thanks for your response.
I have SR5, R/F seems to be the direction the noise is coming from. I refer to the wheel spinning due to changes in sound pitch as speed increases... Although the noise stays dull, never squelling... Normal wheel func, no loss of traction. No changes in driving..

Mau5

.....thinking.....

Logic tells me...if it were anything mechanical e.g, C.V.'s, bearings,(mentioned earlier), the sound wouldn't come and go; a bad bearing, is a bad bearing. The thought of the whining of a starved power steering pump or the squeal of a belt dashed through my mind; but I imagine you would recognize those sounds immediately.

Perhaps you could expound on the sound, and the conditions under which it becomes most audible. I really hate guessing at this; I trouble-shoot mechanical problems for a living (Own H.V.A.C. service company), but not being able to hear it for myself, I'm really at a loss.

This is a great forum, no shortage of resources here. I know we'll get it all hashed out!

rigtec, cheers!

 

[ScotchMau5]

Temps are going to drop tonight. Maybe I can record the noise tomorrow and try to post it. Thanks for your help

 

[ant-ny]

OP,
I think you and I have the same issues. 2011 SR5 with about 18K, fully stock. I also did a search on this and have found nothing. When its cold (25 degrees or colder), I can hear a "grumble" or "rumble" sound coming from the front wheels. It is accompanied by a slight vibration coming up from the floorboard and gas pedal. I notice it most when driving around 35-45 mph. I took it in and the dealer was not able to recognize the problem. An internet search revealed a "possible" TSB related to this issue, TSB-0175-10, which says, "there may be a growl or rumble noise from the front differential assembly when vehicle is in motion". My dealer said they could find no such TSB, but I have found it several places online affecting 2010-2011 T4R. Next time I have to take it in, I will take it to a different dealer and hopefully they will have some other ideas. Someone on this forum must have some idea, as there are many smart, mechanically inclined folks on this forum. Thanks for any help, guys.

 

[rigtec]

OP,
I think you and I have the same issues. 2011 SR5 with about 18K, fully stock. I also did a search on this and have found nothing. When its cold (25 degrees or colder), I can hear a "grumble" or "rumble" sound coming from the front wheels. It is accompanied by a slight vibration coming up from the floorboard and gas pedal. I notice it most when driving around 35-45 mph. I took it in and the dealer was not able to recognize the problem. An internet search revealed a "possible" TSB related to this issue, TSB-0175-10, which says, "there may be a growl or rumble noise from the front differential assembly when vehicle is in motion". My dealer said they could find no such TSB, but I have found it several places online affecting 2010-2011 T4R. Next time I have to take it in, I will take it to a different dealer and hopefully they will have some other ideas. Someone on this forum must have some idea, as there are many smart, mechanically inclined folks on this forum. Thanks for any help, guys.

Hi ant-ny,

The pinion bearing issue that you raised (imho), is a valid one; right down to the sound that mau5 describes.

Now, I don't know if there has been a TSB wrt 2010-2011 4Runners, someone here on these forums will know. But I have changed a few in my day, and the sound...unmistakable.

There are two main reasons that a "young" pinion bearing (you stated that yours only has around 18k), goes bad.

The 1st is: The bearing starved for oil; usually due to low oil level, or the differential housing took on a substantial amount of water (perhaps crossing an "off-road" stream at some point), and the owner neglected to change the oil immediately after this activity.

The 2nd is: The "Bearing pre-load" was improperly set (likely from the factory, if in fact there was a technical service bulletin issued).

Now if memory serves me correctly (been quite some yrs since I've worked on cars to pay for beer), when the front pinion bearing starts to sing, it will be more noticeable upon "acceleration".

And when the rear pinion bearing goes bad, you'll hear it upon "deceleration".

The only thing that's still unexplained (provided that it is a bad pinion bearing), is, just why the sound is more noticeable when the oil is cold; presumed to be thicker at that point.

I think that a search for more info is in order.

rigtec

 

[ant-ny]

rigtec,
thanks for the info. not being too mechanically inclined, I will have to go on what members say here and pass along those suggestions when I take it in. the noise does not seem to be dependent on acceleration or deceleration. i have done as many tests as i can to try and pinpoint it. when i am hearing it, i have put it in 4wd, noise still there. i have also taken foot off gas and let it coast, noise still there. i have even placed transmission in nuetral when hearing it, and it does not change it. so, i "think", though don't really know, that it "may" be related to the wheels and not transmission or drivetrain? was pretty frustrated with the dealer i took it to, cause it did not seem that they really tried to diagnose the issue. it goes in for LOF in about 1200 miles and i will take it to the dealer i bought the car from. not much off roading so far, but i did take it once across some rather large puddles that reached up to the bottom of the doors. again, i only notice this when the weather is cold. even if its cold and the car is in a heated garage, i don't notice it cause the car is relatively warm. thanks for the info and taking time to try and help. from a guy who can barely change the oil, its much appreciated!

 

[rigtec]

rigtec,
thanks for the info. not being too mechanically inclined, I will have to go on what members say here and pass along those suggestions when I take it in. the noise does not seem to be dependent on acceleration or deceleration. i have done as many tests as i can to try and pinpoint it. when i am hearing it, i have put it in 4wd, noise still there. i have also taken foot off gas and let it coast, noise still there. i have even placed transmission in nuetral when hearing it, and it does not change it. so, i "think", though don't really know, that it "may" be related to the wheels and not transmission or drivetrain? was pretty frustrated with the dealer i took it to, cause it did not seem that they really tried to diagnose the issue. it goes in for LOF in about 1200 miles and i will take it to the dealer i bought the car from. not much off roading so far, but i did take it once across some rather large puddles that reached up to the bottom of the doors. again, i only notice this when the weather is cold. even if its cold and the car is in a heated garage, i don't notice it cause the car is relatively warm. thanks for the info and taking time to try and help. from a guy who can barely change the oil, its much appreciated!

Hi again ant-ny,

Please don't knock yourself at all for not really being involved with mechanical things; it's not for everyone!

I think you, and mau5 did very well trying to isolate, and identify the unusual sound that's coming from your 4Runner's front-end. additionally, even when your transmission and transfer case(4WD gear box), are in neutral, the pinion bearings, that we've spoken about earlier, are still bearing their loads and can still be noisey as long as the wheels are still turning.

Am I correct in hearing you say that the noise is NOT coming and going, but is very consistant?? If so, then that is still consistant with the way a bad pinion bearing would behave. It is also possibly consistant with the way that a worn "Ring and Pinion Gear" might sound.

rigtec

 

[ant-ny]

Hey rigtec,
Thanks for the help. Much appreciated. The noise/vibration is not constant. It comes and goes. Most noticeable around 35-45 mph. I don't really notice it at highway speeds. Can you explain the oil or fluid that is in the axle, boot, or whatever? Someone else thought at one point it may be something as simple as that lubricant being cold and stiff and it needs to warm up. Thanks again

 

[rigtec]

Hey rigtec,
Thanks for the help. Much appreciated. The noise/vibration is not constant. It comes and goes. Most noticeable around 35-45 mph. I don't really notice it at highway speeds. Can you explain the oil or fluid that is in the axle, boot, or whatever? Someone else thought at one point it may be something as simple as that lubricant being cold and stiff and it needs to warm up. Thanks again

Hi ant-ny,

Ok, it is happening at 35-45 mph; that's not really "comes and goes",
but these are the conditions under which the sound can be heard.
Your front, and rear differential factory oil viscosity is 75W-85. It's very cold right now in the tri-state area where I live (28 deg F), so if that were your problem, I suppose that my truck would be doing the exact same thing.

Actually, the thicker the oil, the more it cushions the steel moving parts, so in theory, the sound of wearing, oil bathed gears/bearings should diminish in colder weather (only in theory). You most likely need to take the truck in for a proper test.

rigtec, cheers

 

[ScotchMau5]

I feel better that someone else has heard this noise, Thanks ant-ny! rigtec thanks for all the great info. I also am like ant-ny in which I am not that mechanically inclined, I understand the parts but not going to drop a transfer case myself, hehe. When ant-ny mentions that the sound comes and goes, at least for me, its describing the how the noise sounds. As if a spinning part is moving in and out of friction... But what he is describing sounds exactly what I hear... I have just over 50K miles on my 2010, I was planning near 60K to flush transcases but I might do it sooner... I haven't been off roading or any real abuse but I did buy it used so can't answer for previous owner...

It's cold this morning, I might try recording the sound... Not sure how well it will come out...

Mau5:thumb3:

 

[ant-ny]

Mau5
I couldn't have said it better about the "coming and going" issue.

Thanks for the help, guys. I will take this info with me when I have it in next and let you know what happens.

 

[SShink]

Welcome to the club...kinda makes you feel like there's something wrong with your vehicle, huh? At least you got a couple of years out of yours before you got a funky noise...my engine "whine" started at 2700 miles and makes it sound like I have a supercharger at times. (search for "whine" and "spooling" and you will find my recent post on the issue).
you'll be able to ignore it after a week or so.

 

[rigtec]

I feel better that someone else has heard this noise, Thanks ant-ny! rigtec thanks for all the great info. I also am like ant-ny in which I am not that mechanically inclined, I understand the parts but not going to drop a transfer case myself, hehe. When ant-ny mentions that the sound comes and goes, at least for me, its describing the how the noise sounds. As if a spinning part is moving in and out of friction... But what he is describing sounds exactly what I hear... I have just over 50K miles on my 2010, I was planning near 60K to flush transcases but I might do it sooner... I haven't been off roading or any real abuse but I did buy it used so can't answer for previous owner...

It's cold this morning, I might try recording the sound... Not sure how well it will come out...

Mau5:thumb3:

Hi Mau5

Under normal circumstances, it would be a good idea to keep up on the drivetrain maintenance. But under these circumstances, I might suggest taking the truck in for diagnostic analysis first.

The trouble that you describe certainly will not go away after changing the diff'l oil. If a bearing, a bushing, or a set of gears becomes damaged as a result of oil deprivation, that damage is done permanently, so replacement of those parts will be necessary.

Perhaps if it were my truck, I might remove a few drops of diff'l oil and rub it between my fingers (an old mechanics method), to determine if the oil in the differential(s) appeared to be contaminated e.g., gritty, thinned out, muddy...etc.

It won't repair the damage, but it would give me a clue as to what went wrong, how, and why; it would also help me prevent this from happening again.

rigtec

 

[rigtec]

Mau5
I couldn't have said it better about the "coming and going" issue.

Thanks for the help, guys. I will take this info with me when I have it in next and let you know what happens.

Yes, definitely let me know what you find out (P.M.)!! Even though I no longer work on trucks for a living (moved over to the h.v.a.c. field some 25 yrs ago), I still enjoy learning about the newer technology of our 5th Gen 4Runners.

rigtec

 

[ScotchMau5]

I was all set to try recording yesterday morning since it was pretty cold out but no noise.. Kinda wierd.. Plus not sure if I could have recorded a good sound clip on my iPhone, lol

I am also curious what your find out ant-ny! Keep us posted

mau5

 

[4runner10]

Yes, please keep us posted. I'm having a noise issue upon deceleration, so wondering if it could be the rear pinion. Something to check into at the next service appt.

 

[adam2562]

OP,
I think you and I have the same issues. 2011 SR5 with about 18K, fully stock. I also did a search on this and have found nothing. When its cold (25 degrees or colder), I can hear a "grumble" or "rumble" sound coming from the front wheels. It is accompanied by a slight vibration coming up from the floorboard and gas pedal. I notice it most when driving around 35-45 mph. I took it in and the dealer was not able to recognize the problem. An internet search revealed a "possible" TSB related to this issue, TSB-0175-10, which says, "there may be a growl or rumble noise from the front differential assembly when vehicle is in motion". My dealer said they could find no such TSB, but I have found it several places online affecting 2010-2011 T4R. Next time I have to take it in, I will take it to a different dealer and hopefully they will have some other ideas. Someone on this forum must have some idea, as there are many smart, mechanically inclined folks on this forum. Thanks for any help, guys.

you've explained the noise i heard prominently on my previous limited 4runner!!.. my trail doesn't do it as bad.. if at all


ALSO.. i noticed it would be more pronounced when the vehicle was under load in 5th gear

 

[Jmorik]

Cold noise

I know this is an old thread but did anyone ever find the source of the problem ? I have a 2016 Trail with the same issue in cold weather. Always the front passenger side and more pronounced when cornering. The issue first presented itself a year ag, during cold weather, when it was briefly put in 4wd in a snowy hill. I thought initially that the 4wd hadn’t disengaged from that side. This year it just came on in the colder temps. It’s been into Toyota a few times with no results.