Complete suspension replacement/lift...have some questions

[turbocharged]

So my '99 4Runner now has 247k miles on it and I'm about to replace/upgrade my entire suspension, steering, and brake systems since most of it needs to be replaced anyway. It is almost 100% stock at this point except for a set of 265/75-16 BFG KO2's.

Here is what I have already ordered...

Suspension/steering
- OME 881 front springs with OME 90004 struts
- OME 890 rear springs with OME 60073 rear shocks
- Revtek differential drop kit
- KYB front shock mounts
- Moog upper and lower ball joints
- Moog front upper and lower control arm bushings
- Moog front and rear swaybar end links
- Prothane front and rear swaybar bushings
- Energy steering rack bushings
- Moog inner and outer tie rod ends

Brakes
- PowerStop Tundra 13WL rebuilt front brake calipers
- Centric Premium Tundra front brake rotors
- Akebono ACT Tundra front brake pads
- Centric Premium rear brake drums
- Wagner ThermoQuiet rear brake shoes

Now the questions (which are all related to the rear suspension bushings/links since those are the only parts I haven't already purchased). Basically I am wanting to replace the both the upper and lower rear control arm bushings and the panhard bar bushings without replacing the whole assemblies.

1) On a '99 4Runner, are the upper and rear control arm bushings the same like autopartsway.com seems to indicate they are?

JCC rear control arm bushings (rubber)

2) If the answer to question 1 is yes, then it would cost me $136 to replace the control arm bushings with rubber JCC parts and the panhard bar bushing with a Whiteline poly bushing. The alternative is to get the Polytuff poly bushings all around for $187. Does anyone have experience with either of these that can chime in?

Poly-Tuff rear suspension bushings (polyurethane) for $187 USD

3) What is the consensus these days on extending or dropping the panhard bar on an OME 890 rear suspension setup? I don't mind extending my stock bar or welding in a drop kit, just wondering what the best method is or if it is even needed.

4) Related to question 3...is the panhard bar on the '99 4Runners the same length as earlier years trucks that had shorter OEM springs?

 

[Scramble]

Please, No Moog anything. OEM, Prothane, Whiteline or Energy are all good.
You're gonna need longer swaybar end links with the lift. Get them from a 2nd gen 4runner if money is an issue.
If you're gonna get Moog LBJ's you definitely didn't do any researching on this site.

 

[IsaiahC]

So my '99 4Runner now has 247k miles on it and I'm about to replace/upgrade my entire suspension, steering, and brake systems since most of it needs to be replaced anyway. It is almost 100% stock at this point except for a set of 265/75-16 BFG KO2's.

Here is what I have already ordered...

Suspension/steering
- OME 881 front springs with OME 90004 struts
- OME 890 rear springs with OME 60073 rear shocks
- Revtek differential drop kit
- KYB front shock mounts
- Moog upper and lower ball joints
- Moog front upper and lower control arm bushings
- Moog front and rear swaybar end links
- Prothane front and rear swaybar bushings
- Energy steering rack bushings
- Moog inner and outer tie rod ends

Brakes
- PowerStop Tundra 13WL rebuilt front brake calipers
- Centric Premium Tundra front brake rotors
- Akebono ACT Tundra front brake pads
- Centric Premium rear brake drums
- Wagner ThermoQuiet rear brake shoes

Now the questions (which are all related to the rear suspension bushings/links since those are the only parts I haven't already purchased). Basically I am wanting to replace the both the upper and lower rear control arm bushings and the panhard bar bushings without replacing the whole assemblies.

1) On a '99 4Runner, are the upper and rear control arm bushings the same like autopartsway.com seems to indicate they are?

JCC rear control arm bushings (rubber)

2) If the answer to question 1 is yes, then it would cost me $136 to replace the control arm bushings with rubber JCC parts and the panhard bar bushing with a Whiteline poly bushing. The alternative is to get the Polytuff poly bushings all around for $187. Does anyone have experience with either of these that can chime in?

Poly-Tuff rear suspension bushings (polyurethane) for $187 USD

3) What is the consensus these days on extending or dropping the panhard bar on an OME 890 rear suspension setup? I don't mind extending my stock bar or welding in a drop kit, just wondering what the best method is or if it is even needed.

4) Related to question 3...is the panhard bar on the '99 4Runners the same length as earlier years trucks that had shorter OEM springs?

Hate to be the bad guy... but moog lower ball joints are garbage. Ditching them for OEMs is your best bet. or... you could gamble on some napas with lifetime warranties.

 

[MN4runnerman]

For the LBJ and UBJ I'd go oem( I did when I replaced them on my 01, but on my 99 I put oem LBJs and Beck Arnley UBJs on(saved some $$$)). But the rest of the moog products are fine. Honestly a rubber bushing from moog isn't any different than any other company so if it saves a few bucks then go ahead. Since your lifting your truck when you get sway bar links order them off of a 95 4Runner, they are an inch?(almost an inch?) longer. Tie rod ends from moog are fine too. Some people here swear by going OEM for everything and there's nothing wrong with it but I know lots of people with jeeps, Toyota pickups, and other vehicles and they wheel pretty hard(harder than me) with moog steering stuff on there rigs and we haven't had much issues besides catastrophic failure because they came down really f'in hard on some rocks (fun day!).

I can't remember what kind of lift 890s give, I think it's 3"? I'm lifted 2in over stock height in the back of my 01. I did not drop the panhard bar and I haven't noticed any difference in driving its my DD.

 

[stir_fry_boy]

So my '99 4Runner now has 247k miles on it and I'm about to replace/upgrade my entire suspension, steering, and brake systems since most of it needs to be replaced anyway. It is almost 100% stock at this point except for a set of 265/75-16 BFG KO2's.

Here is what I have already ordered...

Suspension/steering
- OME 881 front springs with OME 90004 struts
- OME 890 rear springs with OME 60073 rear shocks
- Revtek differential drop kit
- KYB front shock mounts
- Moog upper and lower ball joints
- Moog front upper and lower control arm bushings
- Moog front and rear swaybar end links
- Prothane front and rear swaybar bushings
- Energy steering rack bushings
- Moog inner and outer tie rod ends

Brakes
- PowerStop Tundra 13WL rebuilt front brake calipers
- Centric Premium Tundra front brake rotors
- Akebono ACT Tundra front brake pads
- Centric Premium rear brake drums
- Wagner ThermoQuiet rear brake shoes

Now the questions (which are all related to the rear suspension bushings/links since those are the only parts I haven't already purchased). Basically I am wanting to replace the both the upper and lower rear control arm bushings and the panhard bar bushings without replacing the whole assemblies.

1) On a '99 4Runner, are the upper and rear control arm bushings the same like autopartsway.com seems to indicate they are?

JCC rear control arm bushings (rubber)

2) If the answer to question 1 is yes, then it would cost me $136 to replace the control arm bushings with rubber JCC parts and the panhard bar bushing with a Whiteline poly bushing. The alternative is to get the Polytuff poly bushings all around for $187. Does anyone have experience with either of these that can chime in?

Poly-Tuff rear suspension bushings (polyurethane) for $187 USD

3) What is the consensus these days on extending or dropping the panhard bar on an OME 890 rear suspension setup? I don't mind extending my stock bar or welding in a drop kit, just wondering what the best method is or if it is even needed.

4) Related to question 3...is the panhard bar on the '99 4Runners the same length as earlier years trucks that had shorter OEM springs?

If you are going to do your rear shoes, consider the rear axle seals at the same time. They are super easy to do and if they leak in the near future, it will ruin your new shoes. The shoes are way harder to replace than the axle seals.

I agree with everyone else, OEM on ball joints/bushings or Energy Suspension/Whiteline/Prothane bushings. Moog is generally good, but for some reason on the 3rd gen 4Runner they are crap.

 

[Ron Helmuth]

#3 panhard bar

I have the 890s in back and no work needed regarding panhard.

Nothing positive to say about Moog for our Runners . I have greasable LBJ's from NAPA (zerk fittings) and they seem to be holding up well.

 

[mtbtim]

If you are going to do your rear shoes, consider the rear axle seals at the same time. They are super easy to do and if they leak in the near future, it will ruin your new shoes. The shoes are way harder to replace than the axle seals.

I agree with everyone else, OEM on ball joints/bushings or Energy Suspension/Whiteline/Prothane bushings. Moog is generally good, but for some reason on the 3rd gen 4Runner they are crap.

The only problem with just replacing the axle seals and nothing else is the seals were redesigned. The lip of the new seal sits more inboard than the original. If he seats the new seal all the way in on the axle housing, I wonder if it will be riding on the retainer properly.

If you decide to take this advice, make sure you do the grease test before bolting the axles back on. You might find the seal is barely riding on the machined surface of the retainer, very close to the unpolished bevel. With a little play due to worn bearings, the lip of the seal might be riding on the bevel itself and then the seal will end up failing and you will definitely get gear oil in your brakes at that point.

If it were me, and the axle seals aren't currently leaking, I'd just leave it alone.

 

[Scramble]

For the LBJ and UBJ I'd go oem( I did when I replaced them on my 01, but on my 99 I put oem LBJs and Beck Arnley UBJs on(saved some $$$)). But the rest of the moog products are fine. Honestly a rubber bushing from moog isn't any different than any other company so if it saves a few bucks then go ahead. Since your lifting your truck when you get sway bar links order them off of a 95 4Runner, they are an inch?(almost an inch?) longer. Tie rod ends from moog are fine too. Some people here swear by going OEM for everything and there's nothing wrong with it but I know lots of people with jeeps, Toyota pickups, and other vehicles and they wheel pretty hard(harder than me) with moog steering stuff on there rigs and we haven't had much issues besides catastrophic failure because they came down really f'in hard on some rocks (fun day!).

I can't remember what kind of lift 890s give, I think it's 3"? I'm lifted 2in over stock height in the back of my 01. I did not drop the panhard bar and I haven't noticed any difference in driving its my DD.

There are guys on here that have had Moog bushing dry out in a year. I would never use them when OEM will last for another 15-20 years. It's cheaper in the long run. Moog OTRE are probably fine (except the boot will probably wear out quick) but they rust in a week so I'd probably paint them. ITRE I would use OEM.

 

[RS Dude]

LEARN FROM MY MISTAKE: After using MOOG crap less than 10k miles ago, I now have to REDO my front suspension. Moog upper and lower crontrol arm bushings and LBJs. I can't tell you how pissed I am!:Cry:

 

[turbocharged]

Well that's definitely unfortunate. I'll return the upper and lower ball joints for sure then and maybe the tie rod ends.

RS Dude, you need to replace you control arm bushings as well? Hard to imagine those would wear out that quickly.

 

[RS Dude]

Well that's definitely unfortunate. I'll return the upper and lower ball joints for sure then and maybe the tie rod ends.

RS Dude, you need to replace you control arm bushings as well? Hard to imagine those would wear out that quickly.

Yes. I just bought four Toyota oem bushings to start. At the moment, I don't have a garage to do the work in, so I will be doing suspension work in small doses.

 

[turbocharged]

Well this suspension upgrade/refresh is definitely quite a bit more expensive with all genuine Toyota parts. Here is how all the components are priced out. Price for Moog are from RockAuto and Toyota are from Camelback Toyota.

I'm not one to skimp or cut corners, but a few of these price differences are hard to swallow. Both the LBJ and UBJ I will swap out for OEM no question. The OTRE is close enough in price that I'll go OEM. The bushings are a bit hard to swallow, but I'll bite the bullet based on RS Dude's feedback.

The ones that I'm questioning are the swaybar end links ($210 difference is huge) and the inner tie rod ends. Are there any non-OEM substitutes for these parts that could be recommended?

 

[MN4runnerman]

There are guys on here that have had Moog bushing dry out in a year. I would never use them when OEM will last for another 15-20 years. It's cheaper in the long run. Moog OTRE are probably fine (except the boot will probably wear out quick) but they rust in a week so I'd probably paint them. ITRE I would use OEM.

I put bushings on about 6 months ago so I'll check and see in another few months. When it comes down to it these vehicles are at the oldest 20 years old(plus I have 3 that I'm working on and 1 is more of a parts truck so I kind of need to save some money). On top of that I get these parts for unit cost so it's kind of hard to argue. But I get the point of OEM I even use those parts a lot. There's just some stuff I cheat on.

 

[MN4runnerman]

Well this suspension upgrade/refresh is definitely quite a bit more expensive with all genuine Toyota parts. Here is how all the components are priced out. Price for Moog are from RockAuto and Toyota are from Camelback Toyota.

I'm not one to skimp or cut corners, but a few of these price differences are hard to swallow. Both the LBJ and UBJ I will swap out for OEM no question. The OTRE is close enough in price that I'll go OEM. The bushings are a bit hard to swallow, but I'll bite the bullet based on RS Dude's feedback.

The ones that I'm questioning are the swaybar end links ($210 difference is huge) and the inner tie rod ends. Are there any non-OEM substitutes for these parts that could be recommended?

Try Beck Arnley ITRE's

 

[Unner]

LBJ needs to be OEM or you could kill yourself or others when the moog crap separates on the highway completely unexpectedly.

UBJ isn't as critical as in it isn't a safety concern really because they don't see the stress the LBJ does, but they aren't fun to replace and OEM aren't that much.

Outer tie rods are cheap OEM.

Inner tie rods are a pain to change, I would go OEM. Check out amayama, they have good pricing on them. That's where I got them. I made a thread on them as well. Search my threads and you'll find it. Aftermarket ones aren't machined correctly and will bind up when the suspension is at full droop.

Lower control arm bushings need to be OEM/Whiteline/Energy. Lots of complaints about loose steering, wandering on the highway after using cheap aftermarket stuff.

Upper control arm bushings, haven't heard anything really complaining about aftermarket cheap parts, but why risk it?

End links, moog might be OK here.

Be ready to replace your CV boots after the lift, good chance they will tear.

You don't need to do anything with the panhard bar. Mine is still stock and I'm running more lift in the rear. The axle is slightly shifted to the passenger side, that's it.

Yes OEM parts are expensive, but considering the originals laster 250k miles, you'll be good for a long long time if you do it right the first time.

 

[Scramble]

Well this suspension upgrade/refresh is definitely quite a bit more expensive with all genuine Toyota parts. Here is how all the components are priced out. Price for Moog are from RockAuto and Toyota are from Camelback Toyota.

I'm not one to skimp or cut corners, but a few of these price differences are hard to swallow. Both the LBJ and UBJ I will swap out for OEM no question. The OTRE is close enough in price that I'll go OEM. The bushings are a bit hard to swallow, but I'll bite the bullet based on RS Dude's feedback.

The ones that I'm questioning are the swaybar end links ($210 difference is huge) and the inner tie rod ends. Are there any non-OEM substitutes for these parts that could be recommended?

Try Energy or Prothane for the bushings, they might be cheaper than OEM & should last forever. Moog end links can snap in a year. For that price on OEM I'd just buy the beefy ones from [MENTION=98153]MStudt[/MENTION].

last year when I did my SS lift I replaced:
UCA's - All-Pro
Steering Rack Bushings - Energy
LBJ's - OEM
OTRE - OEM

It drives & steers like a new truck. Just do it in sections with quality parts instead of it all at once. I haven't touched the rear yet except for extended end links in all 4 corners this year.

 

[Unner]

Also do some research, there's an OEM part number that includes 2 LCA bushings for the price of 1 or less. Can't remember where I found it but I think it was camelback's diagrams.

 

[turbocharged]

Try Energy or Prothane for the bushings, they might be cheaper than OEM & should last forever.

I can't seem to find any Energy or Prothane front control arm bushings. I did find some lowers by Whiteline though. $73 shipped from Amazon for 4 pieces.

W53377A - Front Lower Control Arm Bushings - Inner - Whiteline Suspension Parts

 

[turbocharged]

Also do some research, there's an OEM part number that includes 2 LCA bushings for the price of 1 or less. Can't remember where I found it but I think it was camelback's diagrams.

Haven't seen anything like that yet and I've looked all through their diagrams.

 

[Scramble]

I can't seem to find any Energy or Prothane front control arm bushings. I did find some lowers by Whiteline though. $73 shipped from Amazon for 4 pieces.

W53377A - Front Lower Control Arm Bushings - Inner - Whiteline Suspension Parts

People here use Whiteline & I hear they a pain to change out. I think [MENTION=116387]Unner[/MENTION] & [MENTION=116467]Rock_Rat[/MENTION] did these. Are you sure they need to be changed? When the time comes to change mine I'm just going to replace the LCA's with OEM because of rust & paint them before installing.