Confused About Spring Rate vs Ride Comfort

[pengwin]

I am hoping yall can explain the correlation between spring rate and ride comfort to me... if there is on. I would think that the higher the spring rate, the softer the ride, however that doesn't seem to be the case.

OME 906 = 220#
OME 890 = 190#
OME 891 = 210#
Toytec Superflex = 240#

Based on these numbers, I would think the Superflex and 906's would be the stiffest, but based on what I have read, it is the opposite. People are reporting a much softer ride with the Superflex's, and I haven't seen a lot of comparisons between the 906 and 890 or 891.

I currently have the 906's, and would like a little more height, but am not sure which route to go (spacers, 890, 891)? I think the Superflex's will look too high with 265's, even though i know there are people on here running higher lifts with this size tire. Will there be a big difference in ride comfort between my other options if I am already used to the 906's?

 

[Gerdo]

Coil springs are complicated.
There are progressive (they actually have dual spring rates) and non-progressive. A progressive coil will compress on small and large bumps and will provide a smoother ride. Non-progressive will compermise on one or the other.

Spring rate is the amount of weight required to compress a coil one inch. (Spring rate of 220# will require 220 pounds to compress it one inch) The higher the spring rate, the stiffer the coil.

Not all coils of the same spring rate are the same. Other things to consider. The closer the wraps are to each other, the better it will flex. Taller coils will flex and ride better. For example the OME 851 and 861 are both 220# coils. The 861 is taller (unloaded) but is progressive. The 861 rides shorter under load. This is due to the progressive portion of the coil.

 

[fish0281]

The spring rate is related to the load-bearing capacity more than the ride and each spring has its own relative ride height (or travel). The quality of the ride has more to do with the shocks than anything else - they are what dampen the compression/rebound of the coil and give that "stiff" feeling.

For example, I have the 906's & have paired them with stock and then OME shocks. I didn't notice any difference in ride until I installed the OME shocks, when it definitely stiffened things up.

 

[Coastal616]

The spring rate is related to the load-bearing capacity more than the ride and each spring has its own relative ride height (or travel). The quality of the ride has more to do with the shocks than anything else - they are what dampen the compression/rebound of the coil and give that "stiff" feeling.

For example, I have the 906's & have paired them with stock and then OME shocks. I didn't notice any difference in ride until I installed the OME shocks, when it definitely stiffened things up.

I partially disagree.

If you put for example, coil springs out of say an F550 diesel front end into the back of a 4runner. You would have the feeling of no suspension in the back, it would bounce off of every bump uncontrollably regardless of what shock you put in. To go the other way, if you put in some springs from a motorcycle, it would be so saggy and plush, but would want to flop over in every corner.

Shock valving helps control the rate at which the spring compresses and decompresses, but if you choose the wrong spring, there is only so much the shock can do.

Unless you move up to 2.5" revavleable shocks and bypasses....then it's a different story. :clap2:

 

[badattitude]

consider both spring height and spring rate. your 906 springs are stiff and short. Yes they give some lift over stock but that is because they are relatively stiff and don't sag when compressed as much as a stock spring. If you go to a 890 or 891 you'll have more lift and a softer ride.

 

[fish0281]

I partially disagree.

If you put for example, coil springs out of say an F550 diesel front end into the back of a 4runner. You would have the feeling of no suspension in the back, it would bounce off of every bump uncontrollably regardless of what shock you put in. To go the other way, if you put in some springs from a motorcycle, it would be so saggy and plush, but would want to flop over in every corner.

Shock valving helps control the rate at which the spring compresses and decompresses, but if you choose the wrong spring, there is only so much the shock can do.

Unless you move up to 2.5" revavleable shocks and bypasses....then it's a different story. :clap2:

If we are not going to keep the conversation limited to options that are reasonable, then sure. It won't matter what shock you put on there if you're using a coil that can't be compressed by the truck's mass. It's science.

I can guarantee that the shock is the limiting factor on overall ride quality - either through a basic understanding of control systems or through my experience using 906 springs with stock shocks (no ride change from stock springs/shocks) and 906 springs with OME shocks (stiffer ride). If you want to get into more extreme situations where ride is affected by range of travel (like crawling or going off jumps), again, different subject. For general ride quality on roads, from logging to highway, the shocks are most important.

 

[pengwin]

So I will likely not notice a difference in ride comfort, only height, by switching to 890's or 891's and keeping my OME shocks?

 

[fish0281]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

Do you carry weight in the rear of the vehicle often though? That'd be the only time the 906's will give you an advantage over the other options. What I chose to do was to go with the 906's (& 880's in front) to keep the suspension changes minimal, then added a 1" body lift. To be honest, the body lift was mostly for appearances. Just another option. Rear spacers would work too, if you're not taking your rig on any serious off-road stuff (otherwise I don't think they would stay-put all that well).

 

[MountainBiker]

OME 906 = 220#
OME 890 = 190#
OME 891 = 210#
Toytec Superflex = 240#

I was looking for some spring rates and found this thread, thanks for the info! Do you have the sources for these numbers? I've found the Superflex called 220 lbs/in in many places.

To add to the confusion, any non-straight rate spring should provide at least two numbers. The Superflex's springs are dual rate, so what we would really like to know is what the rate is initially (before any coil bind), and what it is after all the close coils are in contact with each other.

I seem to recall finding a thread that listed spring rates from all the land cruisers, but I can't seem to find it now. I'm pretty sure the numbers were from actual measurements of many of the springs, and some of the numbers were calculated based on spring dimensions.

I am hoping yall can explain the correlation between spring rate and ride comfort to me... if there is on. I would think that the higher the spring rate, the softer the ride, however that doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm confused. Why do you think a higher spring rate (more force required to compress it one inch, and each additional inch) will provide a softer ride?

 

[blue dog]

Just want to add that with a multi rate spring, and a tunable shock, you can achieve the best of both worlds.
My dodge ram has a spring that ramps starting at 380 and ends at 1200, there are 4 rates in this coil, with a well tuned 2.5" fox racing shock, she rides far better then a stock truck on the road yet has the ability to haul the mail in rough, wooped out and wash board roads. Make note this is a 8,000 lb truck and it will walk away from most in the rough stuff. But, it takes a fair amount of coin $$$$ to get it to perform like this. 11" real wheel travel from a dana 60 solid axle with no steering issues.
My point is a multi rate coil and a shock that can be valved to your style and coil are the way to go.

 

[OrangeTexan]

If you want a better ride change to a softer shock. I had OME 906 springs and the OME "comfort ride" shocks in the rear. Regardless of the description they are not a comfortable ride. It was quite a jolting ride in the rear, so i changed out the shocks with normal Toyota shocks from the dealer and the ride is now much smoother.