on-road comfort lacking - considering switching platforms

[trashboy]

hi all, i am the owner of a 98 limited, and am having some troubles trying to dial in my on-road comfort.

for some context, it was never my intent to turn this vehicle into a crawler. it was always my vision to have something reliable and rugged that i could take state to state, and be able to carry all my gear.

important info:
- bilstein 5100
- ome 881/890
- cabinet/sleeping platform setup in the rear
- 105 lb rear bumper
- jba uppers

my biggest gripe with the truck is its on-road comfort. bumps are very noticeable, and there is quite a bit of harshness when driving, even in city roads. going up my driveway even leaves a jarring feeling pulling in on the sloped curb, and it makes me dread taking trips that are 3+ hours in my 4runner.

i was considering selling my rig and instead moving to a LX470 with AHC, and leaving it without a lift, but i would like to try to do my best to keep my 4R if i can.

where i am struggling with doing research is, most people who run these trucks like to do so with wheeling in mind. therefore, most of the threads/fb groups i find have many enthusiasts who recommend mods that are geared towards this.

for someone like me, who wants a comfortable ride, with the capability to go on trails (which lead to camp/fishing spots) when needed, what topics should i research that can help me improve my ride quality? i spoke with a friend who helps local enthusiasts with 3g4r work, and he mentioned that shock/springs are the #1 contributor to ride quality. with that in mind, perhaps i made the wrong choice with my 5100 setup?

wondering if anyone could give any insights, or point me in the direction of areas that i can research more to try and resolve this issue.

thanks as always.

 

[maxthebird]

I also have a 1998 Limited which I've owned since new. It is a real truck with a truck like ride and is never going to be a smooth tourer. At 125,000 miles with stock suspension, my ride was noticeably deteriorating and I was looking for replacement shocks. I rarely go off-road and was looking to improve the excessive harshness that creeped in over the years. The consensus on this forum seems to be that the OEM springs and shocks are the best set-up for the best ride. Although pricey, that is what I did and I'm pretty happy with it.

 

[thennen]

It’s a 26 year old vehicle that isn’t stock. Probably high miles. My 2001 rode fine stock until rust killed it. Maybe consider returning the vehicle to stock and replacing worn bushings and such.

 

[JohnMc]

And FWIW it's a 'real' SUV, based on a truck chassis. A solid rear axle, lots of unsprung weight. Suspension doesn't help with unsprung weight, when you hit something it's bouncing a couple of hundred pounds around under the rear end, that's going to lurch.

It's why CUV's (car based soft-roaders) became so popular, and all but squeezed out the truck based SUV's that started the whole segment in the first place. There really aren't many actual off road SUV's left, 4Runner is one of the few. Because people wanted a little more ride height, AWD to get out of the driveway on a snowy morning, and the ability to handle a gravel road on the way to a campsite, but they didn't want the rough ride, poor MPG, lousy handling, lack of interior room (body on frame makes for a high floor and less room) that comes along with an SUV.

So really, it's a bit of working against physics to make the 4Runner handle like a Highlander, but:
- softer springs - might need adjustable height to preload them enough
- OEM shocks (not 'upgraded' shocks which are intended for harsher use)
- smaller and lighter tires - reduce unsprung mass. You can't do much about the solid rear axle, but going from 90 lb wheel/tire to 65-70 lb will make a difference
- run lower pressures - more compliance from the tires themselves, before you get into the unsprung mass

 

[thezentree]

I've not had 5100s on my 4Runner, but I put them on a GMC 1500 and noticed a significantly firmer ride. Different shocks will probably help.

What tires do you have, and what tire pressure do you have?

 

[96RedRunner]

OME Springs have rep for riding harsh.

 

[dmppdx]

What load range are your tires and what pressure are you running? That can have a big impact on your ride as well.

 

[T4R2014]

KYB gas-a-justs are pretty smooth. If your bushings are original then you need to address that first though.

 

[2TH4IST]

I'll toss in kyb gas-a-just with fresh new oem springs.

 

[clearock]

You can make ur 4runner ride comfortable as you want if u put the time and $ into building what you want to if how you use it.
My mutli purpose 4runner has SAS, fully built our living area in the rear, solar system, all of which make it weights a lot more then a standard 3rd gen, can rock crawl and drive on the hwy/Interstate, while riding much smoother then my OEM DD 3rd Gen. off-road it feels like its floating over the some of terrain.

U can learn a lot about suspension geometry reading the endless threads on this subject. The OEM 3rd gen geometry needs a lot of work to make it do what you want after u start adding weight.

There are always compromises to to get what you want, and only u know what u want/need.

 

[trashboy]

thanks for the replies everyone. i'm running wildpeak AT4s at about 33 psi.

so from talking to some local shops/enthusiasts it seems like my spring/shock combo may just not be for me.

i've seen alot of recommendations to just go back to stock. while i dont wheel or do heavy off-roading, i have run into some situations where the extra clearance was appreciated. i would like to keep this functionality.

does my choice basically boil down to have the comfort or be lifted?

i'm curious if i would be able to run a stock shock (like people have mentioned), and keep the 881/890 coils that i have to maintain the lift? do you all think it could help with the ride quality?

 

[Spiker Engineering]

I am running Dobinsons IMS struts. It's not a cheap setup, but I find it very comfortable, just a bit harsher than my Lexus GS430. And you can adjust them for ~2" lift.

Full disclosure, the initial setup was awfully harsh, and after some discussions with Dobinsons rep, it turned out they put in the wrong valving. After that was resolved, I've been very happy.

 

[trashboy]

I am running Dobinsons IMS struts. It's not a cheap setup, but I find it be very comfortable, just a bit harsher than my Lexus GS430. And you can adjust them for ~2" lift.

Full disclosure, the initial setup was awfully harsh, and after some discussions with Dobinsons rep, it turned out they put in the wrong valving. After that was resolved, I've been very happy.

thanks for the comment. on a side note i have your phone mount in my truck

 

[phattyduck]

thanks for the replies everyone. i'm running wildpeak AT4s at about 33 psi.

LRC or LRE? E's will be much harsher.

I'd highly consider going to a standard highway tire if smoothness is what you are after...

Also, worn bushings front and rear will increase harshness. I noticed a pretty nice improvement in NVH going to stiffer (!!!) poly bushings in the rear since things weren't shaking around with worn out bushings back there.

-Charlie

 

[dmppdx]

Are the wildpeaks load range E, C, or SL, or something else? In my experience, if you go to most tires shops and don't specifically ask for a load range, they will often put load range E tires on a 4runner like this since that is what they have in stock at the moment. Load range E is more common in 4runner sizes and and they just want to make a sale. I went from load range E to C and noticed a significant improvement in ride, but your experience my vary of course.

 

[trashboy]

they are load range c. in terms of front end suspension work, i did alot while chasing down a vibration i was having. list includes

- 5100s with 881/890
- Sway bar bushings (poly)
- Lower control arm bushings (poly)
- Upper control arms (JBA)
- Upper ball joints (Toyota)
- Lower ball joints (Toyota)
- Outer tie rods (Napa)
- Inner tie rods (Napa)
- Steering rack (Toyota)

im torn on replacing the bushings with OEM rubber, since i have heard mixed things about how they affect ride quality. some say they are night and day, some say no difference at all.

 

[Pyral]

My rule of thumb is if a bushing is attached to a part that is there for handling I use poly bushings (like sway bar, steering rack, track bars), but things for comfort/isolation (shocks, engine mount) I'll use the rubber bushings.

About the springs, in many cases "go with stock" is no longer an option. Toyota doesn't have the springs for my year anymore. So I wont replace mine unless they start sagging. LESJÖFORS seems like the best option.

None of your choices leaned towards comfort, 5100 and OME are both firmer. New bushings will help.

 

[T4R2014]

thanks for the replies everyone. i'm running wildpeak AT4s at about 33 psi.

so from talking to some local shops/enthusiasts it seems like my spring/shock combo may just not be for me.

i've seen alot of recommendations to just go back to stock. while i dont wheel or do heavy off-roading, i have run into some situations where the extra clearance was appreciated. i would like to keep this functionality.

does my choice basically boil down to have the comfort or be lifted?

i'm curious if i would be able to run a stock shock (like people have mentioned), and keep the 881/890 coils that i have to maintain the lift? do you all think it could help with the ride quality?

Even at load range C, these aren't exactly a smooth tire. Try a mild P-rated AT like the Michelin LTX AT2.

 

[Romeo1]

Tires are probably the biggest element here. Bilstein makes a nice shock. I only have experience with the 6112 upfront though.

I'm running a similar set up other than I am 6112 upfront, 5160 in the rear with Durobumps front rear. Obviously, the coil spring front is different.

Since I put new lower OEM control arms on it is an incredible ride. That's the only thing I noticed he didn't have listed.

I love how nice it rides, but I'm also used to driving a 1 ton pick up around so take that for comparison.

Are you bottoming out ever? If you are, you need Durobumps in your life

I would say ditch to Poly bushings if comfort and quiet is the goal. If you're not doing really crazy hard-core, crawling stuff, I would also suggest you look into a set of Toyota open Countrry AT3 in SL. Pretty hard to find a smoother rounder better all terrain than that one.

If you can live without a lift, maybe you need to go back to a stock, suspension shocks and springs. That's going to be the smoothest and the most comfortable. Jam a setup like a 99' has and don't look back.

Body on frames will never ride as nice as a car or CUV. Different design parameters.

I prefer the digressive feel of a Bilstein because it gives it a more sporty planted feeling. I hate that boaty F150 type ride. Feels like a raft of chit to me.

Air up your tires to a minimum of 35 psi . I run 38 in my grabber X3 mud terrains in LTC on the road.

Depending on your weight set up, you really may need to set of airbags. I love coil spring suspensions, but they do have limitations when you start adding weight to them. From what you're telling us, I have a feeling you're cycling out the suspension and you probably hitting toward the bottom of travel pretty regularly on those springs. With the free length they run they tend to do some weird things in terms of role center. If you have a Panhard correction kit it really helps. I Never felt like i needed it with 2906 rear springs. With 2890 pck is mandatory in my opinion. Durobumps get used more than a guy thinks.

I would say SL tires, and maybe consider the stock suspension set up or airbags with your current set up.

 

[trashboy]

the other day i spent about 45 minutes just driving around town, trying to see whats bothering me about the ride. from what i have observed, its more so the rear. when i initially drive over asomething like a bump in the road, the front is fine, definitely something i don't mind dealing with. when the rear of the truck goes over the obstacle however, it almost feels as if there is no "give" in the suspension. very stiff.

with my limited knowledge of suspension, i've been trying to think about what could be causing this, and i think it could be one of two things.

1. not enough weight, too stiff of a spring, meaning the spring is unable to compress.
2. too much weight, too soft of a spring, meaning the spring is already compressed, and has no more to give.

some rough numbers "unloaded":
bumper (120lbs)
wood storage system (100ish lbs?)
fridge (40 lbs)
camping gear (50 lbs)

additional weight "loaded":
food/clothes/wood/etc.. (50ish lbs?)

does anyone have any thoughts or resources they could guide me to in order to determine what spring might be better for me? when looking at # of coils, spring rate, etc.. i get a little confused. i've read through the lift FAQ but am still pretty stuck on where to go from here