Considering selling and moving to a sedan (Subaru WRX Limited) thoughts????

if you'll regret getting rid of 4Runner you can always buy it again : )


By then it will be unibody with a Camry engine and CVT. This is the last generation of 4Runner built like this, or it will be discontinued or priced at $60,000+ like the LC.

CVT in rental cars I've had made me swear off the brands that use them.



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Used Audi S4, 6MT. Great performance, room for kids and good size trunk space. Great styling IMO. Cons are winter tires are imperative and pricey to maintain.
 
Throughout my short time on this planet I have bought and owned far too many vehicles. If I was smart with money from the beginning I would probably be a millionaire by now and not have to work anymore. I am not going to tell you what to do but here is my advice that, of course, I never followed. I'm dumb.:frusty:

Keep both vehicles for as long as you can (ten years or more) before they start having major repairs....pay them off then keep making the car payments to your bank account.....eventually you will be able to pay cash for your next vehicle and if you keep up this practice, you will never have to take another car loan out. Car loans kill your financial future and it's stupid to keep dumping money on these highly depreciable assets. Invest, live frugally and you will be a millionaire at 45. Quit job, live frugally, and enjoy freedom. Money doesn't bring happiness but it is a major tool in making happiness happen. Happiness is having time to enjoy life. Money brings you that time. I am sick of trading time for money, i.e., working.

But of course doing the smart thing is not always fun. I have only had the 4 for a year now and I already find myself, from time to time, looking at making a change even though I love the thing. Then reality sets in and I think NO, don't be a dumbass anymore!


I'll be darned. Good post Wally.
 
I was the exact opposite of you.

I was absolutely in love with the WRX. I had contemplated buying a WRX Limited for over a year. I researched the car to the point where I knew almost everything about it. When I finally bought it (brand new), it just wasn't what I thought it was going to be. Was it fast? Heck yah! Was it a joy to drive (when there was no traffic?) Heck yah! But then... it all went down hill....

Driving a manual in traffic? Not so fun
Limited sedan cargo space sucked
Ground clearance sucked (I was actually scraping something under the car when pulling into driveways)
And mostly, I just didn't enjoy the car as much as I thought I would. I ended up selling it (only had it for like 4 months) and moved on to the 4Runner.

Is this going to be the same for you? No idea. For me, having cargo space, ground clearance, high visibility (sitting up higher), and off-road/camping abilities is way more important.

Good luck with your search!
 
Its funny I came across this thread, I haven't visited this forum in some time... I sold my 2013 4Runner SR5 a little over a year ago, and bought a 2016 WRX Limited 6MT.

I paid $34,900 for my 4Runner, and was actually able to sell it to a Toyota dealership for ~$28,500! It had 50k miles on it, but was in very good condition in and out. I was actually shocked at how well it held its value!

I had about 3 years left on my 4Runner Loan, but I was able to put the "Equity" I had in my 4Runner down on the WRX, and get a 3 year loan on that, and my car payments ended up being about $20/month less. I am also saving about $60/month in Gas with the WRX, however my Insurance went up about $30/month.

During my 3rd year of ownership, I basically only used my 4runner to commute back and fourth to work. I never got to use it for what it was meant for. With what I was paying for the Gas, and the Car Payment, it just didn't make sense anymore. I also drive alot of twisty backroads, which the 4runner was horrible at. I had always wanted a WRX, and as soon as I figured out it can fit 3 Carseats in the rear, and it would be cheaper to drive, I made the switch. I loved the 4runner, but it was very boring to drive, and I wanted something more engaging, and to be back in something with a manual transmission again.

Ultimately, I know I made the right choice. There are alot of things I love about the WRX, however it does have its annoyances and short comings, but the good does outweigh the bad. There times I do miss the 4Runner, but ultimately the WRX is a better car for me.

Even though the latest gen (2015+) WRX's have made alot of improvements, there are alot of things/issues you need to consider, and be OK with, if you are going to be happy living with one.

Here are the things I like about the WRX:

-Practicality: It is a AWD 4-Door Sedan, with a surprising amount of rear leg room, interior room in general & a huge trunk. There is nothing else on the market like it, at it's price point

-It is fun to drive: It has good power (but not too much), and amazing handling. When accelerating through a corner, the grip is amazing, and you can feel the AWD clawing and pulling you through the corner. Also, even with the stock exhaust, it's sound is amazing.

-Interior: Alot of people say the WRX's interior sucks and is cheap, however, the latest gen has made alot of improvements. It is significantly nicer then the 5th Gens. The seats are comfortable, but have enough bolstering to hold you in. The steering wheel feels amazing (leather wrapped, thick, and flat bottom. The dash and upper door panels are soft touch, and of decent quality. The gauge cluster is nice, and has a useful center screen. Its layout is very clean, practical, and makes sense. It also has a cool screen in the center of the dash that shows boost, oil temp, mileage and other configurable things. Also, its visibility is amazing.

-AWD System is simple yet effective: Most new car's AWD system is some overly complicated FWD based system that drives around in FWD most of the time, and then the rear wheels kick in when needed. The Focus RS's AWD is like this, and its system will actually overheat, if over used, and it will keep you in FWD mode until cooled. The problem with most of these AWD systems, are that they don't react quickly enough and add unnecessary complexity. The AWD system in the Manual Transmission WRX (CVT is slightly different), is mechanical, simple and works well. The Front and Center diffs are contained within the Manual Transmission Housing. The Center Diff is a Viscous diff that splits the power 50/50 Front to Rear split. The front and rear diffs are open, however like the 4runner the ABS system will apply brakes to the wheel that loses traction. There is also a "Front Brake Vectoring System" that will apply the brakes to the inner wheel when turning, to reduce under steer. What is nice about the simplicity about the system is the maintenance. To replace the fluid for the Front Diff, Center Diff, and Transmission, all you have to do is drain the transmission, and refill. There are no complex transmission fluid replacement procedures like automatic and dual clutch transmissions require.

Here are my biggest complaints about the WRX:

-Power Delivery/Stock Tune: The WRX has good mid range power, however it dies out pretty quickly up top. There is also something weird with the tune, where power dies off around 4500rpm to 5000rpm, then picks up. It is very unsettling, and makes you want to upshift early, which takes you out of the powerband. Also, acceleration can be lumpy and inconsistent. Sometimes in some situations the car feels very powerful, other times it feels lethargic. It all depends on how and when you accelerate, as well as several other factors. Subaru also did something really annoying with the throttle mapping. From 0-30% pedal input, it is linear to the throttle body opening. After 30% pedal, the Throttle Body opens to 100%. So basically any time you press the pedal more then 30%, you are going WOT. Not only is this bad for the engine in certain situations, it even cause more inconsistency in acceleration, and can exaggerate the 4500 power dip in certain situations. You can get a Cobb Access Port, which fixes the pedal/throttle mapping issue, as well as alot of other driveablity issues, however that also voids your warranty. I have heard the latest Subaru ECU update fixes the pedal mapping as well, but people are also complaining it makes the car feel slower. I am not sure if the 2018s have this newest ECU logic or not.

-Subaru Paint Sucks: All new car paint these days is pretty delicate, thanks to those damn hippies, but Subaru's paint is on a whole other level of fragility. After 1 year of driving, my front bumper and hood is covered in rock chips. I rarely drive on the freeway, and am very careful of who and how I follow cars, and I still can't avoid them. Every time I wash my car, I find new ones. If you care about your paint, and clear bra is a must for any Subaru.

-Using the AC upsets drive ability: It is very annoying to drive the car with the AC on. You can feel it when the compressor cycles on or off. If it does this during acceleration, the car will literally jerk. The compressor will cycle off under hard acceleration, so every time you accelerate with the AC on the acceleration will be interrupted and jerky. Also, if you are at a stop light and the compressor is on, you have to give it alot more gas then usual, but if you don't once you let the clutch out in 1st, it will bog down horribly for a few sec, then pick back up.

-Clunks, rattles, and weird noises: Even though the WRX is still built in Japan, they aren't problem free like other Japanese brands. There are alot of common issues with these car that can get kind of annoying. You can take it into the dealership under warranty, but half the time they will say they can't reproduce the issue, or its normal. Even if it is acknowledged, they will just throw the wrong parts at the car hoping to fix it, and then it doesn't. You also have to worry about the techs hooning/abusing your car during the test drive. I have seen many horror stories, even dash cam footage of this.

The issues I have with my WRX at 1 year and 15k miles are:

-Clunk in front suspension when going over rough roads, bumps, pot holes, ect

-Clunk in Electric Steering Rack, when I turn the wheel quickly when driving >5mph or stopped (Will require a new steering rack, however those who have had that done say the noise comes back after a few months)

-Clutch Pedal creaks twice when pushing the pedal down, and twice on the way back up

-The throw out bearing isn't sealed by design (cheapness) so if it rains, or there is moisture in the air, the TOB will make a constant chirping sound for the first 5 min of your drive, when you press it in. This has been going on with all Subaru Manual Transmissions since 2008. They finally came out with a revised part this year...

There are also several rattles from various places all around the car

-The Stock Radio (6.2 Starlink) is painfully slow. It takes about 15sec to load your music off USB/Bluetooth/CD. And if you are listing to something, and get a phone call using bluetooth, it takes 15 sec after the call has ended before it starts playing again. It also can take up to 10 sec for the rear view camera to load, after you shift into reverse, and when it does, the unit is so slow, the video is choppy. I am not exaggerating on the time either, I actually timed this. The higher trim 7.0 Starlink systems have normal loading times

-The quality and durability of the leather seats is marginal at best

-The seat heaters are almost pointless. Even on high, they just turn on for about 2 min, then turn off for about 10, then turn on again for another 2 min. It is by design, once they reach a certain temp which is very low, they will turn off until they get below a certain temp, then turn back on again.

-Subaru is a repetitively small car company, so they take forever to release revised parts and fixes. The cars also don't' have alot of features that basic cars have had 10 years ago.

Examples:
-Doors don't automatically lock when you start driving, or unlock when you turn off the car
-Auto down is only on the driver side window (although they 2017s finally have this feature).
-Only driver seat is powered (on the higher trims)
-Can't operate windows after you turn off the ignition

Also some things to be considered:

-Oil Changes - The FA20DIT engine is very hard on oil. Oil changes should be performed every 4-5k miles, because of oil sheering and fuel dilution issues this engine has. Luckily Oil changes are really easy with the oil filter being a canister (Not cartridge) and located on top.

-Attention - The car gets alot of attention from kids, and even worse the police. Kids want to race you, and other drivers expect you to drive like an A-Hole. It is way too easy to get a ticket in one of these cars.

-The FA20DIT is direct injected, and it has known issues with carbon buildup. The intake valves will probably need to be cleaned (via walnut blasting) every 60k miles or so. You can buy a kit/setup for less then $200 and DIY, or pay a shop ~$600 to do it.

-Harsh Suspension/Ride - the WRX handles amazing, however it comes at a cost of a very harsh ride. You will feel every bump and pot hole on the road. Bridge expansion joints are especially jarring. With all of the potholes this last winter left behind, the suspension's harshness can get kind of annoying.

So the WRX can kind of a PITA at times, but most of the "issues" are minor annoyances, and can be addressed one way or another. For me it is totally worth it, and I would buy one again without question. I still love driving the car every day, and actually look forward to my commute on the backroads now. Make sure you thoroughly test drive one though to see if you can live with the weird acceleration. Also, DON'T GET A CVT!!!!! A manual transmission is how that car was meant to be driven, and there are durability issues and longevity concerns with it, even at stock power.

For MPGs, I take the same route on my daily commute with both the 4Runner and WRX. It is 25 miles each way, mostly hilly back roads, with 1-2 miles on a freeway. For that route my 4runner averaged about 18mpg, and my WRX 23mpg. On freeway only trips, I see about 26-26mpg. Here are my fuelly links for reference:





Here are some pics:

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Here is a good website that shows all of the different models/options/accessories, as well as pics and details on each.

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/wrxsti/wrxsti2018.html

Also, when it comes to buying a WRX, it is typically harder to get a good deal on what they have instock, because they can only order so many WRXs a month, and they typically sell quickly. For the best price, you will want to talk to the Fleet Manager or Internet Sales Manager, and order one. It takes 3 months, but you get what you want for a much better price. The MSRP on my Limited (no additional options or accessories) was $31,190. The Fleet Manager ordered mine for me for $29,900, and that was with no negotiation.

You can also go through Heuberger Motors for a good deal. They can typically beat any price, including the cost to ship your car to you once it arrives.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2463068
 
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Said I was going to keep my BOSS 302 Laguna Seca forever but I have my 4runner now. I had no regrets getting rid of the BOSS for the T4R. Do what makes you happy and enjoy the drive.
 
Its funny I came across this thread, I haven't visited this forum in some time... I sold my 2013 4Runner SR5 a little over a year ago, and bought a 2016 WRX Limited 6MT.

Excellent post and I really appreciate all your input. I'm going to go back over it again this evening and take a look at the links you posted. Mind if I send you a PM with any questions?
 
Excellent post and I really appreciate all your input. I'm going to go back over it again this evening and take a look at the links you posted. Mind if I send you a PM with any questions?

Sure, I would be happy to answer any questions you have. Since I am not on this site often, it would be best if you emailed me. I will PM you my email address.

--Andy
 
Buy it you dont need us to decide your faith.. Whatever makes you smile each time you leave it at the parking lot.

You do not need 3 pages full of random strangers giving our opinions because in the end you decide and not us.

Good luck.
 
Suggest you give that CVT a good long test drive. Just traded the wife's '13 Accord with CVT, and while nothing at all wrong with it, I didn't care to drive it - it was just .... well .... odd (to me).
 
If the 4runner no longer suits your needs, theres no point in paying extra for features/utility you no longer want.

I was looking at the WRX and the Focus RS before I decided I needed space more than speed.
 
A Rav4 is not an SUV. As mentioned, give the 4Runner to your wife. You could strip the 4Runner and sell off some of the mods to raise some cash... assuming she doesn't like that stuff and then get the car you want (by trading in the Rav).
 
Its funny I came across this thread, I haven't visited this forum in some time... I sold my 2013 4Runner SR5 a little over a year ago, and bought a 2016 WRX Limited 6MT.

I paid $34,900 for my 4Runner, and was actually able to sell it to a Toyota dealership for ~$28,500! It had 50k miles on it, but was in very good condition in and out. I was actually shocked at how well it held its value!

I had about 3 years left on my 4Runner Loan, but I was able to put the "Equity" I had in my 4Runner down on the WRX, and get a 3 year loan on that, and my car payments ended up being about $20/month less. I am also saving about $60/month in Gas with the WRX, however my Insurance went up about $30/month.

During my 3rd year of ownership, I basically only used my 4runner to commute back and fourth to work. I never got to use it for what it was meant for. With what I was paying for the Gas, and the Car Payment, it just didn't make sense anymore. I also drive alot of twisty backroads, which the 4runner was horrible at. I had always wanted a WRX, and as soon as I figured out it can fit 3 Carseats in the rear, and it would be cheaper to drive, I made the switch.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2463068



Great review, thanks for the effort.


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It may be out of the OP's price range, but I'm going to throw a bit of a wrench in this.

Skip the WRX and go VW Golf R. If you skip the driver aids and go manual, I think they sticker right around $38K now (note, I have not looked at if 2018 pricing is out yet). It compares much more closely to a STI in performance and fit and finish is right there with cars like the BMW 2/3/4 and the Audi A3.

You gain the hatch configuration which is way more convenient than the WRX sedan, don't have the stigma that I know some folks associate with WRX's, and have a vehicle which is A LOT more uncommon (I know only about 4500 sold in the US for the 2016 model year).

My wife and I traded out of a ~75K mile 2012 Audi TT-S into a Golf R in 2016 (which was about $10K cheaper than the Audi 4 years prior) and it's honestly a nicer overall car and much better bang for the buck. The Golf R is pretty much mechanically identical to the Audi S3 at around $10K less.

VW reliability has gotten a lot better than it was also. Just get an extended warranty for piece of mind (5 year, 75K mile on mine was about $1800) and don't look back.
 
I don't think several days is enough to make this kind of decision, I'd recommend waiting a full 6 months then reevaluating. I'll play the devil's advocate...

1. Driving the 4Runner just isn't that fun anymore. Sure getting it off road is an amazing experience, but it's honestly been over a year since I've truly gotten it off the pavement.

The novelty is gone, got it. But the novelty on any new car is going to wear off. If this is a daily driver, pay it off (if you're making payments) and see what's available for a fun weekend car when you've freed up space in the budget. It's worth the wait!

2. Gas mileage. With my current setup I'm averaging about 14-14.5 MPG with mixed driving. The WRX (NON STI) EPA rates at 21-23 combined depending on if you get the CVT or 6MT. Real world reports are even higher.

2b. Using some online calculators I could save anywhere from $400-$700 a year in gas (this factors in running premium on the WRX).

2c. I could take off my 4Runner's lift, heavy tires, roof rack and all the other MPG killers, but then I think I'd be even more bored driving just a plain 4Runner like every other high school girl in this town.
Even if it costs you only $1k to switch over, which I don't think is likely - account for negative equity, taxes, etc. It's going to take several years to break even on gas. Now if you were switching over to a Corolla or something else with 30+ MPG the economic argument would make sense. Also the MPG reports don't take into account any possible mods, which will also cost money (and how can you NOT mod a Subi, that's the best part! I'm speaking from experience here, I used to have a WRX).

3. I'm at 50K miles on the 4runner so my powertrain warranty will be up within probably 8-10 months. I know these are built like tanks and will last to 200K+ with no issues, but the thought of having a fresh warranty is always nice.
You could always add an extended warranty for less than getting into a new car, but we both know you'd be fine without it ;)

4. I need to research what I could realistically get for my 4Runner, but I think I could sell it as-is, or part it out, and get into the WRX I want for under a 5K difference. Maybe only 1-2K.
I think this is key to see if this would really make sense financially, but I wouldn't rush it and start selling parts at a huge discount just to satisfy the itch. There's not going to be a shortage of possible buyers for the 4Runner or salesmen trying to get you into a new car.

5. My wife has a Rav4 so we really have no need for 2 SUVs.
Fair enough, no real counter argument here if you truly are classifying the need for the type of vehicle by the utility role they play.


6. The 4Runner is sooooo slowwwww. But I've never expected it to be quick at anything.
Easier to not get a ticket! And like I said, I knew you were going to mod that Subi! But really, it's not that bad - I came from a heavily modded M235i and now I've just learned to enjoy driving the speed limit.

So with that said, I would like to get some honest opinions. Would you do it? Should I look at other cars? I tried to like the Camry, but just can't come to like it. I've looked at Mazdas, Hondas, KIA, Hyundai/Genesis and there's just nothing from them that really excite me. The Subaru WRX has always been a favorite car of mine.

- I wouldn't do it. You own a tank, one of the last Toyota's built in Japan. It's rock solid and will last you FOREVER!
- If the decision is mostly for financial reasons, keep the vehicle unless you plan on getting a used Honda Civic or other compact economical sedan.
- If the decision is solely because of boredom with the 4Runner, just hold out... I used to do the exact same thing and while I love new cars, I hate getting bored of cars after the novelty wears off. The cycle has to stop somewhere, everything will eventually fail to excite you.
- If you're scratching an itch for speed or something new, have you considered getting a lightly used motorcycle? You could ride it a few times per week, save on gas, AND be faster than 99% of vehicles on the road.
- If none of this convinced you, at LEAST make sure you part out the vehicle first. THEN sell the 4Runner Private Party (if possible) so you don't get slammed on a trade, and FINALLY do not pay more than invoice for the Subaru.
 
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Recently got the '16 WRX and still kept the 4Runner.

I find myself driving the Rex as my daily for the 60 mile commute to work.. I wouldn't necessarily call it a better ride. In fact, NVH (i.e. road noise) is almost worse than on my lifted T4R with KO2s and steel bumper! Definitely less insulation in there.. Plus, even on 17" wheels its on the firm side in terms of ride. Not harsh, but not far from it..

IMG_20170825_124436.jpg


I still find myself reaching out to the Rex keys more often as it is simply a blast to drive. Yes it gets better gas mileage in terms of MPGs, but needs fancier gas so the whole savings argument IMO is BS (p.s. whoever tells you to run anything less than the best gas you can find on these new FA20DIT motors doesn't know what they're saying.. pulls timing so bad, simply not worth it at all). The 4Runner is still the better 'cruiser' and is comfier than the Rex for traveling and hauling stuff obviously.

In Summary, get what you want and don't waste time regretting it or trying to justify it.
 
I actually ditched my 2011 WRX Sedan Ltd to get my Pro. I do know have a yearning for a sports sedan or sports car, though. My wife's '16 GSW is getting me by for the time being. The WRX was a great car, and unstoppable on snowy roads when fitted with snow tires.
 
I sold my 2015 WRX Limited 6MT to get into my 2015 TEP. I have zero regrets about it. I've always had Japanese sports cars (RX7s, Evo VIII, 350Z, S2000, etc, etc) so when it was time for a "fun" car to fit a couple car seats in - I started shopping for WRXs. Living in the MidWest, AWD was a must, the sedan seemed roomy enough, and the turbo would keep me happy and give me something to tinker on.

However, I just wasn't really impressed with the car as a whole. On paper, it ticked all the boxes... and even in person, the interior is "nice" (just as nice as my Premium), the car looks "cool", and is pretty "fun" to drive - but it just all doesn't add up somehow. Also, I came to the realization a sedan just doesn't cut it for me anymore. I needed more room. Perhaps a 2008-2014 hatch would have been a tad better, I dunno.

Not to mention, you are now a WRX owner - and most WRX owners (present company excluded) are a specific type of douchebag. The car really just ceased to be fun at some point... even after the COBB and the Android headunit and the new wheels and tires. It was just "blah". After I read the WRX was top 5 in vehicles sold after one year of ownership, I wasn't surprised.

All that said, I was also a lot more concerned with the WRX then I am with the 4Runner. Meaning, if my kids were kicking the seats I'd tell 'em to "quit it" - with the 4Runner - I could care less if they have a fiesta out back. So maybe that also has something to do with it.

All in all, the WRX as a car got a solid "B" from me... but just wasn't fun enough to make up for it's downsides.
 

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