Crawford Eco Block

[diverscale]

A provisional "patent" is nothing more than a registration system--all you do is submit whatever it is that you want and use that as a place holder while the non-provisional patent application is being drafted and filed. One would eventually claim priority to this provisional application, so that your non-provisional application can have the benefit of an earlier filing date.

What you actually have is nothing more than provisional application filed, certainly not a granted patent. There is no granting process for the provisional application as there is no actual examination being conducted. It is simply an invention registration system, like in the olden days before the creation of the patent system. Anyone can file a provisional application with absolutely any disclosure they want, and they would have in their possession a provisional application, simple as that.

Same thing goes for the PCT, it is merely an international place holder. There is no examination process for this PCT, nor a granting process. What you filed is what is published.

What perplexes me is why you claim your patent attorney advises you not to share the patent application number and such. By the mere fact that you have filed a PCT means that your US non-provisional application must be rescinded from non-publication, if you had opted to keep it unpublished at the time of filing. This means that your entire disclosure is public knowledge as it would be published in a pre-grant publication by the us patent office.

Same goes for that PCT, it is eventually published by the wipo, so I don't see why your attorney advises you to remain so secretive. Sooner or later, it's going to get published, if not already published, depending on when you filed them.

I do not mean to come off confrontational, but please stop using the term "patented" as it is extremely misleading and borderline false advertising.

About this post precisely (which I think was rude, sorry in the name of the forum, Quirt)

it is just that we've got no definitive answer to this... and I'll admit that I know so little in the field that I can't even pin-point the problem there...

My point is that it is a sub-discussion that began, and was never closed here, unlike all the other ''sub-discussions'' that this thread got and that all kinda got an answer. Again, I don't even KNOW if there is a problem here. Pretty sure that even other members of this forum have enough knowledge to close-up this subject.

And anyway for me it does not change a thing, since I already made the payment. it was 49.xx$ shipped to canada (montreal) with the code FYI you canadians. :canada:

 

[Quirt]

About this post precisely (which I think was rude, sorry in the name of the forum, Quirt)

it is just that we've got no definitive answer to this... and I'll admit that I know so little in the field that I can't even pin-point the problem there...

My point is that it is a sub-discussion that began, and was never closed here, unlike all the other ''sub-discussions'' that this thread got and that all kinda got an answer. Again, I don't even KNOW if there is a problem here. Pretty sure that even other members of this forum have enough knowledge to close-up this subject.

And anyway for me it does not change a thing, since I already made the payment. it was 49.xx$ shipped to canada (montreal) with the code FYI you canadians. :canada:

Well, I cannot answer that personal rant because it's just that

I did post that we have a Provisional patent and a PCT, or at least that's what our patent attorney called it. And we have applied for the Utility patent.

I am far from an expert on the patent process... all I know is we spent a grip of money on the process and it has taken over two years.

We have nothing to hide from our customers, but someone that wants to copy our product could be a different story. You could call me paranoid... but calling me a lair is a huge stretch of the imagination.

 

[mo_mo]

1) I brought up he patent issue because I wanted to know the claims, and I wanted to know how the claims applied to this component. Sometimes claims might be about packaging or something silly that doesn’t really matter, and stating there is a patent or a pending patent implies some level of governmental buy-in that the product will perform as advertised. Patents actually don’t determine if a component will do what it claims as a performance design point. For example the patent office doesn’t care if a Chevy 350 makes 10 hp or 1000 hp. What would be patented on the Chevy 350 might be some features of a valve train that are unique. What those unique features do and why you would use them are irrelevant for the most part to the patent office. If you are the patent holder you might be able to make your part less costly with more ‘whatever your part really does’ so yay! Also upon application the claims are made public such that others don’t infringe and now you get a monopoly once granted. The alternative is a trade secret that is easier (but still challenging) to pull off with things like famous soft drinks. I’m not an attorney or involved with patents, so I may be slightly off with some items and verbiage here. At this point I think we accept that the part is a spacer as explained. There are lots of applications where items are shimmed to obtain the appropriate design points and perhaps there is something unique that we are unaware of with regards to the eco block.
2) TheWraith had some problems running his on the dyno. Perhaps something can be gleaned there. I wonder if pulling an ABS fuse or the like would kill the ‘electrical smarts’ of the VSC.
3) Can someone explain to me why the gear needs to be maintained when running? Why doesn’t it just downshift and then run through? If it is an inertia wheel you measure the time rate of change of the drum wheel rpm and calculate the power. Obviously at low speeds (1st gear slow inertia wheel) you’re going to rip through pretty quickly but won’t it upshift to the next gear? If it’s a water dyno it’s just flow rate * pressure so you might have to open / close an orifice upon a shift to prevent bogging down the engine but you can still measure flow and pressure. This has been an informative thread!
4) Does this transmission have a ‘limp’ mode that locks in say 3rd or 4th gear? I searched for the transmission manual that someone posted maybe a week or so ago but failed. I believe there is a ’manual shifting test’ that by “disconnecting the connector of the transmission wire” one will have access to:
P=P
R=R
D=4
I didn’t dig into the torque converter lock-up issue but there may be something else useful in the repair manual.
5) I did some rough calcs on the flow through our 4Rs intakes today. My estimates show that the flow is way past laminar (that pretty parabolic flow velocity profile) and is well into turbulent flow (small boundary layer with a fairly flat flow velocity profile). YMMV

Looking forward to some quantifiable results.

 

[Jetcycles]

1)

5) I did some rough calcs on the flow through our 4Rs intakes today. My estimates show that the flow is way past laminar (that pretty parabolic flow velocity profile) and is well into turbulent flow (small boundary layer with a fairly flat flow velocity profile). YMMV



Looking forward to some quantifiable results.

I've stayed out of this thread since I was so kindly referred to as a troll that lacked basic engine understanding, but you're speaking my language here, so I hope my post can help not only interested consumers, but Quirt as well. For background, I study flow profiles (both liquid and gas) for a living, participating in API and AGA while doing so. In theory, in the presence of laminar flow, this spacer could impact the mass calculation depending on its placement in the intake. If laminar flow profiles were studied at varying flow rates (thinking known flow rates at AVG MPH speeds here), this equipment could theoretically be tuned (spacer height) to adjust ratios to fit the end consumers needs. WOT spacer for race cars, 70 MPH spacer for the highway haulers, 40 MPH spacer for the city cruiser, etc. The reality of the situation, in my humble opinion, is that these air intake tubes rarely see steady flow rates, much less steady laminar flow rates. I can't currently comprehend how these increase fuel economy and horsepower simultaneously, but then again I have been accused of lacking basic engine tuning knowledge. I'd like to see this succeed, but I'd have to see repeatable recordable steady state data gathered through long term continuous testing before I took a drink of the kool aid. As you can tell, I'm skeptical by nature.

 

[Jetboy]

Obviously this is a crude way of leaning the fuel flow - but it may be preferable to electronics for some reason I am unaware of. Any ideas? The way I would lean the fuel map would be electronically. I'd simply buy a few factory plug ends for the O2 sensors, then build a small circuit to add an offset voltage to the signals appropriate to reach the desired a/f mix I wanted. Then I'd know exactly what I was doing to the system and the actual a/f ratio I was inducing. Probably for less than $50 in components, but a lot more time in manufacturing. - this I really don't know and someone who's more knowledgeable could help. I don't know if the signals are clean or do we need some filtering before we start modifying the signal. It could take a few filters first and make the works a bit more complex depending on what it takes. And more $ if you wanted to go ahead and print a circuit board to make it nice and clean. The advantage is of course it would be tunable and push button on/off with a bypass to simply revert back to stock operation. But that's another project for another day. And they already exist for someone not electronically inclined; http://hydrogengarage.com/DIY/DIYinstructions.html ****Without going through a modeling of what this circuit is doing, I wouldn't want anything to do with it! *** Merely for demonstrative purposes.

We already know this engine is capable of 470hp normally aspirated because Lotus uses one. But, the issue for me is how long it lasts and is producing power at useable rpms? That I do not know. For me 2-4k rpms is where I want my increased power. Beyond that I really don't much care.

 

[Quirt]

I've stayed out of this thread since I was so kindly referred to as a troll that lacked basic engine understanding, but you're speaking my language here, so I hope my post can help not only interested consumers, but Quirt as well. For background, I study flow profiles (both liquid and gas) for a living, participating in API and AGA while doing so. In theory, in the presence of laminar flow, this spacer could impact the mass calculation depending on its placement in the intake. If laminar flow profiles were studied at varying flow rates (thinking known flow rates at AVG MPH speeds here), this equipment could theoretically be tuned (spacer height) to adjust ratios to fit the end consumers needs. WOT spacer for race cars, 70 MPH spacer for the highway haulers, 40 MPH spacer for the city cruiser, etc. The reality of the situation, in my humble opinion, is that these air intake tubes rarely see steady flow rates, much less steady laminar flow rates. I can't currently comprehend how these increase fuel economy and horsepower simultaneously, but then again I have been accused of lacking basic engine tuning knowledge. I'd like to see this succeed, but I'd have to see repeatable recordable steady state data gathered through long term continuous testing before I took a drink of the kool aid. As you can tell, I'm skeptical by nature.

This thread has been a learning tool for many of the members and I hope you have learned from it as well. Like you, I enjoy sharing my knowledge

 

[m85476585]

We already know this engine is capable of 470hp normally aspirated because Lotus uses one. But, the issue for me is how long it lasts and is producing power at useable rpms? That I do not know. For me 2-4k rpms is where I want my increased power. Beyond that I really don't much care.

Without changing the shift mapping will you be able to use more power at 2-4k RPM much? If you go to WOT in that range, won't it just downshift?

I'd rather have more power higher in the RPM range. Once the transmission downshifts as much as it can, it feels like there isn't as much power left (though the VVT-i engines seem to have a relatively flat power curve from dyno graphs I've seen).

Higher power rated versions of the engines spec 91 octane according to an uncited sentence on wikipedia. The 470hp version was "modified" so it may have stronger parts, and it might run on race fuel.

 

[Jetboy]

Without changing the shift mapping will you be able to use more power at 2-4k RPM much? If you go to WOT in that range, won't it just downshift?

I'd rather have more power higher in the RPM range. Once the transmission downshifts as much as it can, it feels like there isn't as much power left (though the VVT-i engines seem to have a relatively flat power curve from dyno graphs I've seen).

Higher power rated versions of the engines spec 91 octane according to an uncited sentence on wikipedia. The 470hp version was "modified" so it may have stronger parts, and it might run on race fuel.

I don't race my 4runner. A 4runner IMO is a silly vehicle choice if racing is something you're wanting to do. Additional power at the mid band rpm range is where 99% of driving happens. And if you have greater power in that range, it won't need to down shift. If you want to do something like tow a trailer, turn larger tires, haul more weight, climb large mountain passes, - things that 4runners are actually a good vehicle choice for doing - the mid range rpms are where it would be useful to have additional power. I rarely find that I've got the pedal to the floor and lack power. I find that I require downshifts more than I want.

And yes, the Lotus version is probably very special. And likely only lasts for one racing season. It's not something I want in my 4runner.

 

[m85476585]

I don't race my 4runner. A 4runner IMO is a silly vehicle choice if racing is something you're wanting to do. Additional power at the mid band rpm range is where 99% of driving happens. And if you have greater power in that range, it won't need to down shift. If you want to do something like tow a trailer, turn larger tires, haul more weight, climb large mountain passes, - things that 4runners are actually a good vehicle choice for doing - the mid range rpms are where it would be useful to have additional power. I rarely find that I've got the pedal to the floor and lack power. I find that I require downshifts more than I want.

And yes, the Lotus version is probably very special. And likely only lasts for one racing season. It's not something I want in my 4runner.

Yes, it won't need to downshift, but it might not know that. It will downshift anyway, because that's what it's programmed to do. If it gives you more power with the throttle part way open, then yes you will have more power. But it sounds like this device gives you the most gain at WOT. If the gas pedal position is directly proportional to the throttle position (it isn't because of drive by wire) then it you press the gas more to use the extra power that's available, the transmission will think you want to go faster than you normally could in that gear (if the transmission shifts based on pedal position), so it will shift.

That's kind of a simplistic explanation, and when I think about it there's a lot of input that goes into deciding shift points. I don't know if it considers things like the MAF reading which could let it estimate how much power the engine is putting out. It might do that to correct for altitude, or maybe no adjustment for altitude is needed in the transmission? I'll have to think about it some more, and maybe see if I can tell a difference at 11-14 thousand feet vs 5,000 feet next time I get a chance to drive really high. If there's about 3% power loss per thousand feet of altitude, at 14,000 feet there 42% less power than at sea level! Any change should be noticeable up there, and in Colorado we have a couple (paved) roads that go up to 14,000 feet that I want to drive this summer.

If this device makes the engine think that there's less air flowing in, it might make the computer think the engine is putting out less power than it really is, so it might shift more frequently to try to compensate. I don't know, just speculating.

There's also grade logic (or whatever Toyota calls it, maybe just "with intelligence" as in "Electronically Controlled Automatic Transmission With Intelligence") that holds lower gears if it senses that it's on a hill or pulling a load. I don't think it uses angle to do that, but something about the speed versus output of the engine. Depending on how it measures engine output, this device could confuse it and make it upshift when it's normally programmed to hold a lower gear. You could easily override that selecting a lower gear with the shifter.

The increase in power is relatively small, so if there is any effect on when the transmission shifts, it might not be very noticeable. It might not matter.

 

[Quirt]

Yes, it won't need to downshift, but it might not know that. It will downshift anyway, because that's what it's programmed to do. If it gives you more power with the throttle part way open, then yes you will have more power. But it sounds like this device gives you the most gain at WOT. If the gas pedal position is directly proportional to the throttle position (it isn't because of drive by wire) then it you press the gas more to use the extra power that's available, the transmission will think you want to go faster than you normally could in that gear (if the transmission shifts based on pedal position), so it will shift.

That's kind of a simplistic explanation, and when I think about it there's a lot of input that goes into deciding shift points. I don't know if it considers things like the MAF reading which could let it estimate how much power the engine is putting out. It might do that to correct for altitude, or maybe no adjustment for altitude is needed in the transmission? I'll have to think about it some more, and maybe see if I can tell a difference at 11-14 thousand feet vs 5,000 feet next time I get a chance to drive really high. If there's about 3% power loss per thousand feet of altitude, at 14,000 feet there 42% less power than at sea level! Any change should be noticeable up there, and in Colorado we have a couple (paved) roads that go up to 14,000 feet that I want to drive this summer.

If this device makes the engine think that there's less air flowing in, it might make the computer think the engine is putting out less power than it really is, so it might shift more frequently to try to compensate. I don't know, just speculating.

There's also grade logic (or whatever Toyota calls it, maybe just "with intelligence" as in "Electronically Controlled Automatic Transmission With Intelligence") that holds lower gears if it senses that it's on a hill or pulling a load. I don't think it uses angle to do that, but something about the speed versus output of the engine. Depending on how it measures engine output, this device could confuse it and make it upshift when it's normally programmed to hold a lower gear. You could easily override that selecting a lower gear with the shifter.

The increase in power is relatively small, so if there is any effect on when the transmission shifts, it might not be very noticeable. It might not matter.

A very large percentage of our customers say that their vehicle downshifts less when on an incline than it used to. Not sure if that is from the power increase or different shift points or a combination of both. Either way they like the change after the install.

So far we have not gotten one complaint.

 

[Jetboy]

An increase in mid-band power will require less throttle. How often are you actually using WOT? .0001%? I use 20% throttle all the time. That's where I want more power. For the same reason diesel power is so desirable for trucks. If we had 200hp at 2500rpms and peak at 250hp no one would ever complain about the power.

 

[Darryle]

2nd tank update here. I only use Super Unleaded also. 20.349 mpg and probably 90% short trips with a lot of stop lights and less than 20 miles, most less than 10 miles.

266.6 miles on 13.101 gallons

 

[RedSled]

A very large percentage of our customers say that their vehicle downshifts less when on an incline than it used to. Not sure if that is from the power increase or different shift points or a combination of both. Either way they like the change after the install.

So far we have not gotten one complaint.

I have one complaint so far.........................Why didn't i put this on sooner. :driving:

 

[Formidable]

2nd tank update here. I only use Super Unleaded also. 20.349 mpg and probably 90% short trips with a lot of stop lights and less than 20 miles, most less than 10 miles.

266.6 miles on 13.101 gallons

Thank you for posting your results. I have been following your results on tacoma world. They are consistent with other members claims. This is all I needed to know before ordering mine a few days ago.

 

[Darryle]

This tank I didn't drive it easy or attempt to skew the results, I basically drove it like I stole it.

 

[be77solo]

Hey Quirt, I give you props for your participation and professionalism during this and the TW thread... I do like the idea/concept, and realize it's a broader application than being simply made and optimized for one type engine/brand. I've been tinkering with this stuff for two decades as a hobby, and have don't more than my fair share of MAF resistor mods/screen removals/polishing/CAI/plug in tricks etc always aiming for the low hanging fruit the manufacturer must leave in the tuning. Ultimately, I wish Toyota wasn't so silly and we could simply custom tune our own vehicles, but this is a crude yet simple (and cheap) step up!

Of course I don't expect this to be a magic bullet nor do I expect this to work for every single use case for every single human on this planet like some are looking for.... but, your product and your knowledge along with the results some are reporting is sure enough for me to try it. I'll send you a PM now for the discount code if still available.

Additionally, and you can respond in the same PM, but do you have an application for a 2.0 Turbocharged Cadillac ATS? None was listed on the website. While I'm ordering, I'd love to get one for the wife's car as well to try too.

Thanks to the original poster as well!

 

[Saker]

Thank you for posting your results. I have been following your results on tacoma world. They are consistent with other members claims. This is all I needed to know before ordering mine a few days ago.

Please be sure to post your results.
It's always good to have more data!

A repeat route and as close to the same conditions report would be fantastic.

This is where scangauges or ultragauges would be very helpful for data.

 

[Formidable]

Please be sure to post your results.
It's always good to have more data!

A repeat route and as close to the same conditions report would be fantastic.

This is where scangauges or ultragauges would be very helpful for data.

Installed this product tonight on my 2014 limited. The important thing to mention is that there were no issues encountered with the two minute installation and NO mechanical issues whatsoever. Meaning there is no audible detonation or ping, no check engine light, and no issues with start up and idle. The screws provided are the correct thread and length.

Impression: In terms of performance gain, I had absolutely no expectations prior to installation and this $45 product lives up to that expectation. Immediately before installation, I was sure to drive the vehicle multiple times full throttle from a dead stop and from a roll onto the freeway. Following installation there was no noticeable difference in full throttle or partial throttle performance. As I mentioned, this was expected as the manufacturer states this will at most boost hp by 8%. Most people can't feel a 10-20hp gain. The only performance mod I felt on both my 3rd gen 4Runner and 07 FJ was following the TRD supercharger installations. The only definitive way to answer the question of whether this product actually boosts power is to have a 1GR run on a Dyno prior to installation and after, (multiple runs pre and post installation on the same day, same Dyno, warmed up, etc).

I will post my MPG in the following weeks. I get consistently 15.3 MPG pre-installation with a mix of city, highway and traffic. I drive the exact same route on a daily basis to and from work.

 

[Canazes9]

I ordered 3 eco blocks, 1 for each of my Tacomas and 1 for my wife's 4Runner. I can't install on the 4Runner right now (long story, it's at the body shop - grrrr!). I did install the eco block on my '12 Tacoma today. I drove about 25 miles and I could really feel the modest boost in hp. The fuel economy is difficult to judge in such a short amount of miles driven, but it appears as if the guage didn't move as much as expected, so I think I'm probably getting 2-3mpg more than before installation.






Just kidding! I can't feel any difference in power and obviously I can't tell you anything about mileage either. The only thing I noticed different is that when driving the highway into town with cruise control on the truck didn't downshift like it normally wants to when traversing overpasses. No codes, no knocking etc.

David

 

[1engineer]

I ordered 3 eco blocks, 1 for each of my Tacomas and 1 for my wife's 4Runner. I can't install on the 4Runner right now (long story, it's at the body shop - grrrr!). I did install the eco block on my '12 Tacoma today. I drove about 25 miles and I could really feel the modest boost in hp. The fuel economy is difficult to judge in such a short amount of miles driven, but it appears as if the guage didn't move as much as expected, so I think I'm probably getting 2-3mpg more than before installation.






Just kidding! I can't feel any difference in power and obviously I can't tell you anything about mileage either. The only thing I noticed different is that when driving the highway into town with cruise control on the truck didn't downshift like it normally wants to when traversing overpasses. No codes, no knocking etc.

David

Lol keep us updated. I like the posts that can feel the difference after filling up with 91 octane gas...