Crawford Eco Block

[viking-777]

Viking-777, I just had both my Tacoma and the daughter's 4Runner inspected and both passed with flying colors. I have the emissions report if you want me to post them.

Excellent, thanks Darryle. It would be interesting to review the numbers & would give legitimacy to others out there who may be on the fence, but no worries if you are too busy. I'm not stressing about it. You have already given me the kind of feedback I was looking for.

Thanks!

 

[Quirt]

will do, but I'm afraid I won't have an apples to apples comparison. my last 1,300 miles averaged 18.1 mpg, but that was 90% highway 10% city, while my next tanks will be about 100% city. i'll still post the updates though, when I have them. on another note, I didn't see anywhere on this or the TW thread any emissions testing (plenty of dyno concern though). without that info it would seem safest to remove the eco-block before my next emissions test, just because I'm really not sure what the test results would be, and would not want to log an emissions failure to my VIN. do I have any cause for concern or are there any pre - post emissions test results? thanks :car:

I would not worry about the emissions test at all. If they still do it the old school way then the AFR will be stoic as it runs in closed loop during the test. And if they just plug into the OBD2 port then it will not have any issues either.

 

[eauxneaux]

I would not worry about the emissions...

Would it make sense that since installation I've noticed less exhaust...scents?

 

[Quirt]

Would it make sense that since installation I've noticed less exhaust...scents?

The exhaust is burning cleaner so yes, that makes sense.

 

[Greenamphibious]

18 pages of snake oil. Pair it with a TRD intake and let's get crazy!

 

[Quirt]

Do you have any codes pretty interested.

The code for March is 2479

 

[Quirt]

Any new updates or info to share?

 

[Jetboy]

The exhaust is burning cleaner so yes, that makes sense.

This claim is unsupported and probably not accurate. You should not spread unknown and very likely untrue "facts" to customers. Leaner burn is generally does NOT produce cleaner tail pipe emissions. Specifically the oxidization of nitrous oxides requires some unburned fuel to reach the catalytic converters. There's a reason lean-burn engines cannot comply with EPA tail pipe emissions standards - probably the same reason you won't ever be able to get these spacers EPA certified. It's probably making smog forming emissions worse not better.

This is something that is measurable and you could actually provide facts. Do a tail pipe emissions nox and so2 test and compare the results.

 

[Quirt]

This claim is unsupported and probably not accurate. You should not spread unknown and very likely untrue "facts" to customers. Leaner burn is generally does NOT produce cleaner tail pipe emissions. Specifically the oxidization of nitrous oxides requires some unburned fuel to reach the catalytic converters. There's a reason lean-burn engines cannot comply with EPA tail pipe emissions standards - probably the same reason you won't ever be able to get these spacers EPA certified. It's probably making smog forming emissions worse not better.

This is something that is measurable and you could actually provide facts. Do a tail pipe emissions nox and so2 test and compare the results.

This ^ claim is unsupported and totally inaccurate... Who besides you have said that we are creating a lean-burn engine here? You should stop spreading untrue accusations disguised as facts.

Please quantify what the AFR is of your "lean-burn engine" so we can all learn from your knowledge instead of making open-ended statements designed to scare us.

 

[Jetboy]

This ^ claim is unsupported and totally inaccurate... Who besides you have said that we are creating a lean-burn engine here? You should stop spreading untrue accusations disguised as facts.

Please quantify what the AFR is of your "lean-burn engine" so we can all learn from your knowledge instead of making open-ended statements designed to scare us.

Snake oil salesmen are often nervous of facts...

A three-way catalytic converter has three simultaneous functions:
1. Reduction of nitrogen oxides into elemental nitrogen and oxygen:
NOx→Nx+Ox
2. Oxidation of carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide:
CO+O2→CO2
3. Oxidation of hydrocarbons into carbon dioxide and water:
CxH4x+2xO2→xCO2+2xH2O
With too much oxygen (lean engine state) the first reaction to break up NOx is inhibited and the NOx emissions go up. NOT DOWN. This isn't hard to understand. It is counter-intuitive. But not complicated.


Where is your EPA certification?
Put your money where your mouth is. Have the EPA evaluate your device.

 

[mo_mo]

Don't worry about emissions. This device does nothing. Your Toyota ECU is more than smart enough to correct for this as designed. If it wasn't smart enough, then it will throw a CEL as an operating parameter will be out of bounds.

 

[Quirt]

Don't worry about emissions. This device does nothing. Your Toyota ECU is more than smart enough to correct for this as designed. If it wasn't smart enough, then it will throw a CEL as an operating parameter will be out of bounds.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion... 90+% of them read similar to this though;

I've had the Eco Block on my 13 BRZ for a few months now. I've seen a fairly consistent 2-3 MPG increase since I installed it, although with temperature fluctuations every week this year it was hard to be certain. Recently I took a 200 mile (each way) trip and saw 35 MPG. :notbadobama:

Power wise the increase is subtle. On the BRZ it felt about the same as doing a panel filter change.

 

[viking-777]

This claim is unsupported and probably not accurate. You should not spread unknown and very likely untrue "facts" to customers. Leaner burn is generally does NOT produce cleaner tail pipe emissions. Specifically the oxidization of nitrous oxides requires some unburned fuel to reach the catalytic converters. There's a reason lean-burn engines cannot comply with EPA tail pipe emissions standards - probably the same reason you won't ever be able to get these spacers EPA certified. It's probably making smog forming emissions worse not better.

This is something that is measurable and you could actually provide facts. Do a tail pipe emissions nox and so2 test and compare the results.

jetboy......so I'm pretty sure your claims are unsupported as well, as you neither cited nor uploaded documentation supporting your view :fencing: I'm not going out of my way to prove anyone's point here but in two years' time when I do another emissions test, I may be able to provide side by side results that differ by two years...others are passing emissions tests anyway, so I'm not sure if that will accomplish anything.

as far as I am concerned, this product may not be proven to your satisfaction, but it has similarly not been disproven by you (or anyone else here), so how can you make any claims against it? I'm fine being a guinea pig. it's really pretty easy for me.....my car = my mods = my fun. your car = your mods = your fun. :banana:

 

[Greenamphibious]

 

[Quirt]

jetboy......so I'm pretty sure your claims are unsupported as well, as you neither cited nor uploaded documentation supporting your view :fencing: I'm not going out of my way to prove anyone's point here but in two years' time when I do another emissions test, I may be able to provide side by side results that differ by two years...others are passing emissions tests anyway, so I'm not sure if that will accomplish anything.

as far as I am concerned, this product may not be proven to your satisfaction, but it has similarly not been disproven by you (or anyone else here), so how can you make any claims against it? I'm fine being a guinea pig. it's really pretty easy for me.....my car = my mods = my fun. your car = your mods = your fun. :banana:

Thanks, good to see that you are using your common sense here.

I feel bad for guys that are so negative that it affects their everyday life... life is too short to have your panties in a bunch all the time. Not to mention how unhealthy it is.

 

[viking-777]

greenamphibious - and your proof is what exactly??? easy to say, much harder to prove...

I do like the pic though!

 

[mtomaro]

This is fluid mechanics 101. Plug into your OBD2 and you'll see reduced airflow readings and thus a lower fuel flow rate - AKA leaner and more mpg.

 

[Engineer]

Someone should forward this thread to Toyota for comment! No need for me or anyone else to restate their opinions and as said before to each his own :rockon:

 

[Jetboy]

jetboy......so I'm pretty sure your claims are unsupported as well, as you neither cited nor uploaded documentation supporting your view :fencing: I'm not going out of my way to prove anyone's point here but in two years' time when I do another emissions test, I may be able to provide side by side results that differ by two years...others are passing emissions tests anyway, so I'm not sure if that will accomplish anything.

as far as I am concerned, this product may not be proven to your satisfaction, but it has similarly not been disproven by you (or anyone else here), so how can you make any claims against it? I'm fine being a guinea pig. it's really pretty easy for me.....my car = my mods = my fun. your car = your mods = your fun. :banana:

The truth is we don't know. I find it very dubious to make a claim that the emissions are reduced when chemistry predicts otherwise. The nice thing about chemistry is that laws of physics remain constant and therefore the reactions are very predictable. The reactions that occur in various states happen whether you believe it or not. However it would be reasonable to test this in a lab to confirm which of us is in fact correct.

Passing emissions with OBD2 means you computer doesn't "think" it's failing. Unless your emissions test measures exhaust pipe emissions it means nothing.

The EPA has a voluntary review program for emission devices that claim to improve emissions over what the factory EPA approved levels are. Possibly I should buy one and send it in? Might be worth testing just to see how it shakes out. Of course if it makes it worse it's likely to be labeled "tampering." It is my understanding that generally the EPA frowns upon selling devices that "tamper" with emissions systems.

 

[mo_mo]

First step is to google Air Fuel Ratios (AFR). You’ll find plenty of charts that will show you AFR or Fuel Air Ratios (FAR) and the impact on power, economy, and emissions. If you goggle enough, you can find some Toyota Motor Sales literature on the topic (but what do those guys know).

Then one needs to investigate how a modern engine is controlled. You’ll learn all about short term and long term trims. Specifically the long term trims will compensate for wear and tear of the system under transient conditions that force open loop based upon O2 sensor readings during closed loop operation. If the engine controller sees values that are outside of the originally programmed limits then it might throw a code. If not, then it is fully compensating and has no problem negating the impacts of this type of device. Yes Toyota and every other auto manufacturer got way past fluids 101. The MAF doesn’t directly measure air flow. The ECU takes the value and compensates it into a useable function. Yes you can even find information from say 2004 on Toyota ECUs that do the above!

It is a logical fallacy to believe that anyone on this forum has the duty to prove or disprove this device. The obligation to prove the devices functionality lies with the seller making the claim. If this thing worked then Shark Tank would be all over it.

There may be some that come out and claim they’ve gotten 10% improvement in MPG and the butt dyno is off the charts. There is nothing wrong with that. Just recognize that MPG is not the easiest thing to measure. I’ve gotten 18.6, 19.5, 19.7, 17.5, 18.4 and 19.6 MPG in that order on the same commute all with over 300 miles on a tank. That’s significant variation with what I thought was pretty consistent driving, environments, and gas pumps. Those are odometer distance and pump volume calculated values. If this device works, and if it is patented (I understand it is ‘pending’ but cannot verify either claim), then these will be worth way more. Of course you could just 3d print your own and find yourself an o-ring or other sealant mechanism.