Crawling Springs vs Daily/Normal Rates

[snivilous]

Does anyone do this or thought about it? Taking the coilovers apart is a pretty quick and easy process, especially if you're gonna go on a multi-day trip to somewhere like Moab. Seems like it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a set of springs for crawling, low spring rates so the IFS can actually fully use its travel and get all the way to the bump stop (if all the weight is on that one corner). Just been toying with the idea for a few weeks. Thoughts?

 

[D Farms]

Im thinking about putting my stock springs on my tundra 5100s, the only problem is you dont get as much lift, so you need to have longer springs, preload it a bunch, or use top plate spacers.

 

[TCMach]

Taking the coilovers apart is a pretty quick and easy process

I have to disagree on this part, atleast for my situation. On my Kings I can't use a rented spring compressor because it sits far enough in that it'll smash into the coilover body/threads (ask me how I know). So that becomes me taking the coilovers off, running to the 4wd shop, hoping they can get my stuff done that day, and then going home and putting them back on and adjusting them to where I like it.

I can flex my front end with 700lb coils to bumpstops as it is so for me it's a no go. But if you have the ability to change coils at your home/work I would be all for it.

 

[JayRolla]

I don't know about this. All my coils hit bump stops no issue.

 

[snivilous]

I can flex my front end with 700lb coils to bumpstops as it is so for me it's a no go. But if you have the ability to change coils at your home/work I would be all for it.

I don't know about this. All my coils hit bump stops no issue.

Really? I don't think my 620 eibachs ever hit the bump stops when fully flexed which is why I was thinking about running a lower rate/longer spring sometimes.

 

[Jedrattle]

Aren't you setup with LT? I have a Camburg LT set up. It flexes great and rides pretty nice but my problem is the body roll. I live in the mountains and the drive on the fast side. I need a better alignment and a front sway bar along with a better rear sway bar. I had a set of Donauhoes and Camburg uppers before this setup. It never flexed or ride like it I felt it should have. My thoughts now, at least with the stock lower arm setup is this...lighter spring rate with heavier valving and a hydro bump for the bigger hits.

 

[Dephcon]

Instead of changing coils, can't you adjust the rebound\compression rates on the shock. My buddy had Rancho RS9000's on his Samurai and he would adjust the air in the shocks. Stiff onroad, super soft offroad. He had the compressor so it was just a flick of the switch inside the cab.

 

[snivilous]

Aren't you setup with LT? I have a Camburg LT set up. It flexes great and rides pretty nice but my problem is the body roll. I live in the mountains and the drive on the fast side. I need a better alignment and a front sway bar along with a better rear sway bar. I had a set of Donauhoes and Camburg uppers before this setup. It never flexed or ride like it I felt it should have. My thoughts now, at least with the stock lower arm setup is this...lighter spring rate with heavier valving and a hydro bump for the bigger hits.

Yea, I'm buying new coils so got thinking about how to utilize all my travel assuming my new spring rates won't fully compress when flexed. I plan to make some custom sway bars for at least the rear, hopefully this summer when I LT the back.

Instead of changing coils, can't you adjust the rebound\compression rates on the shock. My buddy had Rancho RS9000's on his Samurai and he would adjust the air in the shocks. Stiff onroad, super soft offroad. He had the compressor so it was just a flick of the switch inside the cab.

Yea, but I'm talking about how much suspension travel is used when just flexing which doesn't have to do with the valving.

 

[BrandonF]

Yea, I'm buying new coils so got thinking about how to utilize all my travel assuming my new spring rates won't fully compress when flexed. I plan to make some custom sway bars for at least the rear, hopefully this summer when I LT the back.



Yea, but I'm talking about how much suspension travel is used when just flexing which doesn't have to do with the valving.

Adding air to a coil shock with air assist will definitely affect how much travel is used when flexing. This has nothing to do with valving.

And, the valving of any given shock WILL have an effect on flex. Stiffer compression damping will require more force to compress the suspension. It will add to the spring rate in a sense.

 

[SCRunner12]

Theoretically yes it would be nice, but the amount of time to remove the CO, compress the springs, reinstall the CO and realign (should be done) is way more the trouble than what I gain.

 

[snivilous]

Adding air to a coil shock with air assist will definitely affect how much travel is used when flexing. This has nothing to do with valving.

And, the valving of any given shock WILL have an effect on flex. Stiffer compression damping will require more force to compress the suspension. It will add to the spring rate in a sense.

I agree that adding air will change suspension travel, I don't see that as being a drastic change--at least in comparison to the spring rates. And valving is used to absorb energy, it doesn't affect spring rate at all.

Theoretically yes it would be nice, but the amount of time to remove the CO, compress the springs, reinstall the CO and realign (should be done) is way more the trouble than what I gain.

Like I said, just throwing the idea around. It takes me maybe 5 minutes to remove my coilovers and easy to change the springs out. I would maintain the same ride height nominally so wouldn't need aligning.

 

[D Farms]

while I dont have an awesome lt setup that allows quick removal of my coilovers, I can remove my second shock pretty quickly.

 

[TCMach]

Yea I can hit bumps. I don't remember if I was technically on bumps in this pic but I was close and its the best one I got at the moment.

IMG_6283 by Tyler Carvell, on Flickr

IMG_6285 by Tyler Carvell, on Flickr

The one thing that I keep thinking is how much of a difference is it going to make. Like how low would you want to go? Your running a 600 so would you go to 550 or 500? Your at the rate of your tender spring at that point (if I remember correctly). At that point I feel like you might be riding bumps a lot more than you want to be.

 

[BrandonF]

I don't mean to sound argumentative, but the amount that the air effects the total spring rate is completely dependent on the shock. There are suspension systems (i.e. mountain bikes) that rely solely on an air spring to provide the spring rate. There is no coil at all. The in between would be a coil system that is augmented by an air spring to allow easy adjustment, which sounds like what the other poster was talking about with the rancho's.

Valving does not effect spring rate directly. But a stiffly valved shock will require more force to compress a given amount than a lightly valved shock with the same spring. Coil springs are linear by nature. This isn't typically desirable. To change this, suspension linkage geometry and/or shock valving are used to modify the spring rate curve of the suspension. So although the spring is doing most of the "work", the compression damping may be used to ramp up the suspension stiffness at the end of the stroke to prevent bottoming, for example. Heck, you can even hydraulically lock a shock out altogether.

At the end of the day, changing springs, adjusting damping and adding air (if applicable) are all great ways to change the characteristics of your suspension. It all comes down to what you feel works best in your own application.

I agree that adding air will change suspension travel, I don't see that as being a drastic change--at least in comparison to the spring rates. And valving is used to absorb energy, it doesn't affect spring rate at all.



Like I said, just throwing the idea around. It takes me maybe 5 minutes to remove my coilovers and easy to change the springs out. I would maintain the same ride height nominally so wouldn't need aligning.