Crazy Idea, belly wheel?

[wfo9]

First off. let me preface this by stating the fact that I'm a bit of an outside the box thinker.. I pretty much do everything on my vehicles a bit differently. Some of my one off ideas work. some don't and I only follow through on about 50% of them... So read on with that in mind.

Each time I take out my 5th gen I'm both impressed and frustrated all at the same time.

I'm impressed by what it can do for such a big pig, but at the same time frustrated by the the belly height and break over. Specifically the gas tank and the rear LCA mounts. This stops the truck in so many situations that it should be able to easily overcome. It's got the traction and stability.. just not the clearance.

Sometimes you can work around it by picking the right line and changing angle of attack to shorten the effective wheelbase, but when you are on something narrow or simply too steep to not line up your wheelbase with the fall line.. It's a no go and the limited clearance there is a really frustrating problem. I typically feel like just 1" of tuck is all that is needed.

For those that have a decent amount of experiencing wheeling in rocks/ledges.. you know that feeling when you are hung up on a break over/high centered... Bad things can happen really fast if you try to push over it (you will spin like a top...), since the vehicle has major resistance to going forward.

Anyway. I've been trying to come up with a solution. Moving the gas tank or tucking the LCAa mounts are both extremely difficult and the juice just does not feel worth the squeeze.

But somehow the idea of a belly/slider wheels popped into my head. I've seen something like this done once before a long time ago on a thing called the top truck challenge. If I remember correctly, they had a crazy off camber canyon wall section where the trucks would often hang on the roll cage. So, the next year.. a few guys added a small pneumatic wheel to the cage and it worked amazingly well.

Looking at it.. It looks like it would be possible to mount some type of pneumatic wheel in the spot I'm talking about. I'll attach a picture to give a general idea of the concept.

Anyway, just in the brainstorming phase of this idea and would appreciate any thoughts or experiences with something similar.

I'm picturing something like the wheel on a dolly or wheel barrow. it would not really need to support the full weight of the truck. Just enough to gain an inch or two of additional lift.... the rear wheels would still be taking the majority of the load still. This would just give them a chance to start climbing...

I know it is a pretty crazy idea....

 

[Vinsil]

Why not do sliders to carry the edge of it over to the arms and then it would be a smooth transition. I'd much rather have something like uhmw that is simple, cheap and pretty easy to help with the transition.

My first gen needed to be on 37"-39" tires to work well with the wheelbase which is similar to what we deal with on the 5th gens. My Jeep buddies hated my wheelbase and the ease it makes most obstacles but when it was stock....I hated those 94" WB Jeeps!:mad2:

 

[JSparky]

Relocate your lca's outboard instead of underneath? I had a Rubicon express long arm system on my Rubicon and loved it for that fact, rear lca's where up high on the side of the frame, fronts where tucked up inside a crossmember, so the lca's essentially became sliders (they were huge).

 

[wfo9]

Why not do sliders to carry the edge of it over to the arms and then it would be a smooth transition. I'd much rather have something like uhmw that is simple, cheap and pretty easy to help with the transition.

My first gen needed to be on 37"-39" tires to work well with the wheelbase which is similar to what we deal with on the 5th gens. My Jeep buddies hated my wheelbase and the ease it makes most obstacles but when it was stock....I hated those 94" WB Jeeps!:mad2:

Because sliders don't really slide going up.... Would be a little better, but nothing like a wheel that rolls.

 

[wfo9]

Relocate your lca's outboard instead of underneath? I had a Rubicon express long arm system on my Rubicon and loved it for that fact, rear lca's where up high on the side of the frame, fronts where tucked up inside a crossmember, so the lca's essentially became sliders (they were huge).

If it was just the LCAs... I would very much consider that, but the gas tank is the Royal PITA. And yes... 37 would be magic... but that is not going to happen.

 

[Vinsil]

Because sliders don't really slide going up.... Would be a little better, but nothing like a wheel that rolls.

True but have have worked with uhmw before? It's pretty slick (pun intended). If designed correctly it would be simple and less chance to fail and bash up into your body...causing more problems in the end.

 

[1engineer]

True but have have worked with uhmw before? It's pretty slick (pun intended). If designed correctly it would be simple and less chance to fail and bash up into your body...causing more problems in the end.

This. We use that stuff as a liner to move some of the most abrasive rock on earth. Trona.

 

[wfo9]

True but have have worked with uhmw before? It's pretty slick (pun intended). If designed correctly it would be simple and less chance to fail and bash up into your body...causing more problems in the end.

Oh. I read HREW... yea the uhmw is an idea worth considering.... Still think the good old wheel might be the best answer. I have it as skids on some of my bikes and motos...

 

[Vinsil]

I've got a sheet of the stuff I'd be willing to cut you off some if you want to go that route. I made a table for my boat for cutting bait on it, it's awesome and damn near indestructible. Greg knows...

 

[007Tacoma]

...I finally found a thread with acronyms that made me scratch my head to the point it was impossible for me to "Google" the answer...

:faint2:

 

[honda250xtitan]

...I finally found a thread with acronyms that made me scratch my head to the point it was impossible for me to "Google" the answer...

:faint2:

yea well it took me all the way to the pic of lower arm mount to realize OP was talking about the rear of the truck LCA's, not the LCA's on the front. He's mentioned it in another thread, that thread I also thought he meant the rear camber bolts on the LCA's. I'm like how is that a spot that you get hung up on???? lololololol

 

[Simpleman74]

...I finally found a thread with acronyms that made me scratch my head to the point it was impossible for me to "Google" the answer...

:faint2:

I was just gonna create another thread to ask what it was lol

 

[jwkilgore]

Oh. I read HREW... yea the uhmw is an idea worth considering.... Still think the good old wheel might be the best answer. I have it as skids on some of my bikes and motos...

Now that's a thought... instead of heavy steel skids and sliders, use thinner/lighter metal lined with replaceable UHMW sheets. I have a relative with access to odd-shaped scrap sheets from a coal mine... too bad they're this ugly orange color.

 

[1engineer]

Now that's a thought... instead of heavy steel skids and sliders, use thinner/lighter metal lined with replaceable UHMW sheets. I have a relative with access to odd-shaped scrap sheets from a coal mine... too bad they're this ugly orange color.

Yeah it's probably our scraps lol. It comes in all colors as long as its orange. That stuff is amazing and I'll tell you why nobody offers a skid lined with it... It is really, really expensive...

 

[007Tacoma]

Now that's a thought... instead of heavy steel skids and sliders, use thinner/lighter metal lined with replaceable UHMW sheets. I have a relative with access to odd-shaped scrap sheets from a coal mine... too bad they're this ugly orange color.

Having grown up around my dad's business which had tons of aluminum parts and scraps laying around, I hold on to just about anything I think I can use. I just wish I had a plasma cutter and a welder...

 

[JimPA]

... I'd much rather have something like uhmw that is simple, cheap and pretty easy to help with the transition...

I like Vinsil idea. UHMW is pretty slippery.
I would also consider heavy duty rollers instead of the wheels.

https://www.curbellplastics.com/Research-Solutions/Materials/UHMW
"Tech Tip– Ultra high molecular weight polyethylene has a relatively high coefficient of thermal expansion. This may make it difficult to hold tight tolerances on UHMW parts that will be exposed to changing temperatures"

UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene) | Poly-Tech Industrial
"UHMW is an acromym for Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. Most commonly reffered to as UHMW. It is famous for its abrasive resistance, toughness, and low cost. It is also FDA and NSF compliant. It’s natural color is white, but is available in black and other colors at special request. Typical applications include sleeve and flanged bearings for high wear industrial and manufacturing bearing applications. Custom and standard profiles exist for conveying environments. UHMW is easily machined into custom components. Though it is easily machined with standard metal working equipment, UHMW has a very high coefficient of thermal expansion making it difficult to hold close tolerance dimensions. Its main attributes are impact and abrasion resistance. Its self-lubrication properties and low cost makes UHMW a great choice for many demanding bearing and wear applications.
UHMW is available in many filled varieties, including glass, oil, MS02, thereby enhancing its bearing and wear properties to extreme levels."

 

[e60ral]

UHMW is incredibly soft though, you will just gouge it. The other problem is keeping it in place. Which much less force in industrial applications a lot of times the entire UHMW plate will shift against the bolts, just mushrooming over the bolt heads as the bolts just mush into it. I think UHMW is a good idea, but it's not perfect.

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[Saker]

Digging up bones.....lol

Ok, @wfo9, did you shelf this idea or just do something else?
Seems if a roller of high impact wheel was tucked up enough, but low enough to meet the need, it should work providing there is more than ample support for the system. Thinking 3 in total spaced across the bottom barely visible unless you are kneeling down looking underneath....

 

[007Tacoma]

Digging up bones.....lol

Ok, @wfo9, did you shelf this idea or just do something else?
Seems if a roller of high impact wheel was tucked up enough, but low enough to meet the need, it should work providing there is more than ample support for the system. Thinking 3 in total spaced across the bottom barely visible unless you are kneeling down looking underneath....

You busted out the big shovel for this one... LOL