CreepCatchers
- Thread starter -JD-
- Start date
-JD-
New member
In a perfect world....
In the real world not all parents are protecting their kids from this type of thing. As is evident from the number of kids that still fall victim.
I also don't think it's a coincidence that a disproportionate number of people who are abused as kids go on to become addicts or abusers themselves. Further perpetuating the cycle.
Obviously I don't disagree that their parents are responsible, but whether they aren't doing their job right or simply can't control their kids 100%, kids are still being abused today.
In the real world not all parents are protecting their kids from this type of thing. As is evident from the number of kids that still fall victim.
I also don't think it's a coincidence that a disproportionate number of people who are abused as kids go on to become addicts or abusers themselves. Further perpetuating the cycle.
Obviously I don't disagree that their parents are responsible, but whether they aren't doing their job right or simply can't control their kids 100%, kids are still being abused today.
1engineer
Moderator
Do you have kids?
In all situations except something like kidnapping, the environment (friends, peers, parents, siblings, family) is what sets up the abuse.
It does not take a perfect world. As a matter of fact we have about 330M people down here and very few vigilante groups roaming the country looking for bad guys. Pretty sure if that dude started parent education groups in churches and shelters he would do a bigger service than what he is doing now. But wait, there is no recognition or notoriety doing that...
Good point, if you are gonna be a vigilante don't tell no one, "just do it"!
Thai
Elite Member
Confronting a mentally unstable person with unknown weapon load in a public setting will go real well...it always does, right?
And don't forget, if this confrontation goes wrong, then this guy/group will be in a world of trouble with nothing to protect them.
Whenever this guy or group do this, please do it far far away from where my family is....
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-JD-
New member
Nope, no kids.
Don't need to have kids to know that this type of thing is happening all the time though. I'm not sure of your point on this. The environment is what sets up the abuse? Ok.... Thats good to know but not going to do anything to help the kids who are currently in a bad environment. It does not take a perfect world?...because you have 330M people and very few vigilante groups?? Not even sure what you are trying to say here. You also have more children being abused daily, and most likely more vigilante groups too.
I'm not denying the recognition/notoriety aspect of it. I'm not even really a supporter of this idea. I am merely playing devil's advocate for the purpose of this debate. Honestly this is the first forum that I have seen mostly negative feedback. It has mostly been a huge out pouring of support. These guys have done two or three TV interviews now and were on the news last night. While the story was warning of the risks of this type of vigilante justice, the comments section shows overwhelming support for what they are doing.
As I said I thought this was an interesting subject as I can really see both sides of the issue.
Confronting a mentally unstable person with unknown weapon load in a public setting will go real well...it always does, right?
No doubt. There is certainly risk involved, but these guys are aware of it.
If one of these creeps attacks one of the catchers then they now have a good reason to lock him up, right? Another creep off the streets and I've heard prison life isn't so great for pedophiles.
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jwkilgore
New member
I have two kids (11 and 6). I believe pedophiles to be the lowest of the lowest scum on the planet.
So my opinions on this issue:
So my opinions on this issue:
- Vigilante "justice" is wrong. We have due process laws in this country for a reason. I can't count the number of social media lynch mobs I've witnessed that ultimately turned out to be in the wrong.
- Vigilante justice is dangerous. If you try to "detain" someone they could shoot you and justifiably claim self defense. By definition you assaulted them first. They may still be arrested for their other crimes, but you'd still be dead.
- There's a small but very real possibility that your target could himself be working for the police and you become the one in jail.
- About the only way to make this work would be to do it in cooperation with a legitimate police agency. Preferably as a sworn deputy. You would have to observe strict evidence gathering protocols, and you would not confront the perp yourself. You would pass along what you find to the real police and they would arrange the meet/arrest.
Thai
Elite Member
These guys are aware of the risks...i doubt it because they would think twice before doing this dumb stuff...
Let's play devil's advocate as you say...they are aware of risks, but is the public surrounding the confrontation area aware of the risks? These vigilantes are putting the public in harm's way by confronting these mentally unstable individuals without proper training and no support from proper authorities.
How about this...an off-duty officer (or conceal carry) sees a bunch of folks beating on a guy who is screaming for help...he/she then pulls his firearm to defend the "victim". That little no harm confrontation just escalated to high tension confrontation that is about to explode in bloodshed. That officer will not have the time to take notes and deciding who is the victim and who is right or wrong.
More that i think about this...the more that i think that these "creepcatchers" are a bunch of dumbasses. :redbrick:
Thai
Elite Member
Maybe because we're educated and use common sense, which is surprisingly lacking in today's society....
-JD-
New member
"beating on a guy"? Who is getting beat up in this hypothetical scenario?
This group, CreepCatchers, actually sets up rules for these guys to follow in how they go about this based off of advice from their attorney. They absolutely never engage physically.
Also, I'm not sure you understand 'playing devil's advocate' as all the points you made after were just continuation of your existing position...
This is similar to my personal position on this. However, I can also see the argument that even preventing just one of these guys from abusing a child is a win. People now know who these guys are if they are even seen around any local schools or other places were children are they are more likely to be spotted and reported. Not to mention the obvious social stigma that may make them think twice about trying something like this again.
I live in a fairly small town and honestly didnt' think this was as big of a problem as it seems to be. These guys have caught three of these creeps in three days.
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Thai
Elite Member
NEVER engage physically??
Look at the video on their website...these guys were pushing around the accused perp!!!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/B92FCQmidrI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
WTF are you talking about??!!
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-JD-
New member
I'm talking about the legal disclaimer displayed prominently on their homepage as well as the 'rules' given to the guys I know locally.
As I've said. I'm not denying the risk involved.
Thai
Elite Member
I guess that there are few guys NOT paying attention to the rules?? :redbrick:
Thai
Elite Member
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KKVZ0jhGSlY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Risk to who??!! I don't give a shit about the catchers OR the creep. If these catchers put my family in harm's way, then i will be extremely upset to say the least.
1engineer
Moderator
You need to have kids to truly understand the importance of being a good parent and teaching them right. Being a good parent is the most important thing a person will ever do. Ever.
What I'm saying is that you teach parents to be better parents. That will save a lot more kids than going after the bad guys but it's not flashy doing it that way.
Why you see a different response here than elsewhere is conservative bias and education. Most of us believe in teaching to take care of family instead of just taking care of them. This is a fundamental difference between the left and right. It might not help immediately but it will help the future.
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-JD-
New member
Riiiight, but dont you think that these predators on the loose looking for children to victimize are already putting children at risk?
As their website clearly states: " WE SHARE YOUR DISGUST but violence won’t help! It’ll just let the haters have something to pick apart at!"
Thai
Elite Member
Shake my head. OK dude. Creepcatchers is a GREAT idea. :redbrick:
Keep that shit in Canada...good luck.
-JD-
New member
Sarcasm AND a personal attack. Always helpful in a debate (he says sarcastically)
Never said that. Not even close. All I'm saying is that I can see both sides. You honestly can't?
You see no benefit whatsoever to what they are doing?
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Thai
Elite Member
Personal attack? Huh? Grow thicker skin dude.
The risks outweigh the benefits...and the risks can be deadly, not just to the creep or catcher, but to the public. Please try and understand what i am saying. :thumb3:
-JD-
New member
You are saying that you prefer children be put at risk of being molested than the risk to the public of these people being confronted by ordinary citizens?
