Dealer can't align after 5100s?

[xnodesirex]

Just got a call from my dealer, and trying to make sure I'm not taking crazy pills.

Installed 5100s on all four corners, SAW rears, and Toytec fronts.

4runner drives like shit right now. Steering feels super sloppy, and any bump moves the steering wheel, which makes it feel like you constantly have to be steering. Feels very sketchy to be honest and definitely needs to be aligned.

Seems to be a little play in the steering bushings, but I may be finding a problem where there isn't one.

Took it to the dealer for alignment and to check the bushings. Got a call FINALLY after they've had it for two days saying they can't put it on the machine for alignment. The aftermarket stuff means that they can't "read it" and the lift kit means the "numbers won't make sense." Finally tells me to take it to a "Tire Discounters or something because they have the equipment."

5100s are at 0.00. No lift. It's a 2012 TE. I've seen dozens (hundreds) of guys on here have their dealer do alignment with 5100s. What the deuce am I missing?

 

[derryck]

I've had issues with dealers not wanting to do alignments in the past with any aftermarket suspension. It might be less headache to just take it to someone that specializes.

 

[Runn4est]

Just got a call from my dealer, and trying to make sure I'm not taking crazy pills.

Installed 5100s on all four corners, SAW rears, and Toytec fronts.

4runner drives like shit right now. Steering feels super sloppy, and any bump moves the steering wheel, which makes it feel like you constantly have to be steering. Feels very sketchy to be honest and definitely needs to be aligned.

Seems to be a little play in the steering bushings, but I may be finding a problem where there isn't one.

Took it to the dealer for alignment and to check the bushings. Got a call FINALLY after they've had it for two days saying they can't put it on the machine for alignment. The aftermarket stuff means that they can't "read it" and the lift kit means the "numbers won't make sense." Finally tells me to take it to a "Tire Discounters or something because they have the equipment."

5100s are at 0.00. No lift. It's a 2012 TE. I've seen dozens (hundreds) of guys on here have their dealer do alignment with 5100s. What the deuce am I missing?

My assumption is that the ToyTec fronts added between 2-2.5 inches of lift in the front. That means you're going to lose a lot of Caster on stock UCAs. My 5th Gen with 2.5 inch spacers was able to get a little more than 2.0 caster and my 4th gen with a 3 inch lift was able to get 1.7 deg of caster -- both out of spec. I told them to ensure camber was on point still since caster will not wear your tires out. The consequences are twitchy steering at higher speeds.

I would tell whoever is doing it to get caster as high as they can while keeping Camber as close to 0 as possible.

I will likely get UCAs in the near future when I upsize tires again so I can push them forward more for clearance and better high speed stability.

 

[xnodesirex]

My assumption is that the ToyTec fronts added between 2-2.5 inches of lift in the front. That means you're going to lose a lot of Caster on stock UCAs. My 5th Gen with 2.5 inch spacers was able to get a little more than 2.0 caster and my 4th gen with a 3 inch lift was able to get 1.7 deg of caster -- both out of spec. I told them to ensure camber was on point still since caster will not wear your tires out. The consequences are twitchy steering at higher speeds.

I would tell whoever is doing it to get caster as high as they can while keeping Camber as close to 0 as possible.

I will likely get UCAs in the near future when I upsize tires again so I can push them forward more for clearance and better high speed stability.

Really didn't add that much on my TE.

Previous owner had 1" spacers on the front, so with 0.0 on the 5100s it works out to a pretty small lift (if any). I forgot to take pre-/post- measurements like a dummy.

It still has about a 2" rake to it.

 

[pipo6007]

Do you have spacers installed with the 5100's? Which package did you buy from toytec? I used the 2.5/1.5 daystar kit for many years on my 4 runner and it took the tech a little time to get it aligned within spec but he did.
No reason you shouldn't be aligned correctly with no lift.

 

[nb rob]

Just got a call from my dealer, and trying to make sure I'm not taking crazy pills.

Installed 5100s on all four corners, SAW rears, and Toytec fronts.

4runner drives like shit right now. Steering feels super sloppy, and any bump moves the steering wheel, which makes it feel like you constantly have to be steering. Feels very sketchy to be honest and definitely needs to be aligned.

Seems to be a little play in the steering bushings, but I may be finding a problem where there isn't one.

Took it to the dealer for alignment and to check the bushings. Got a call FINALLY after they've had it for two days saying they can't put it on the machine for alignment. The aftermarket stuff means that they can't "read it" and the lift kit means the "numbers won't make sense." Finally tells me to take it to a "Tire Discounters or something because they have the equipment."

5100s are at 0.00. No lift. It's a 2012 TE. I've seen dozens (hundreds) of guys on here have their dealer do alignment with 5100s. What the deuce am I missing?

It's not you.
It needs a good alignment, and I'm guessing the caster is not ideal.

My toyota dealer had no issue putting mine on the rack. I have aftermarket UCAs, but with 0" of lift, you should be all set ?!

If they say they can't align it, then definitely go somewhere else. Once they throw their hands in the air, that's that.

 

[xnodesirex]

Do you have spacers installed with the 5100's? Which package did you buy from toytec? I used the 2.5/1.5 daystar kit for many years on my 4 runner and it took the tech a little time to get it aligned within spec but he did.
No reason you shouldn't be aligned correctly with no lift.

Nope. No spacers.
The Eibach/Toytec springs (112-620s).

Listed as adding 1.6", so without the old spacers its a net of <1"?

Yeah, totally jacked my 4runner up like whoa... They didn't even try to put it on the rig, just said the big lift on it meant the "numbers wouldn't make sense."

I said "there's no lift" and he replied "I know what I saw." Yeah, okay dude...

 

[xnodesirex]

It's not you.
It needs a good alignment, and I'm guessing the caster is not ideal.

My toyota dealer had no issue putting mine on the rack. I have aftermarket UCAs, but with 0" of lift, you should be all set ?!

If they say they can't align it, then definitely go somewhere else. Once they throw their hands in the air, that's that.

That's one sweet lookin rig.

Waiting a bit on the UCAs for now. Seems like more than a few guys have had balljoint issues, which makes me a bit worried. Then I may go to .85 or 1.75" and even it out a bit.

Caster is probably way off. Hopefully that's it (and not steering bushings, being a $1k+ fix). It drives like a drunk fish right now, and bumps deflect the steering wheel. Feels like the car is driving you more than anything.

 

[wfo9]

No special equipment needed to align (beyond an alignment rack). Just sounds like they are totally inept. All alignment machines read in the exact same way, it has nothing to do with a lift. The machine simple measure angles of the wheels.

The lift will tend to minimize caster, but they should still be able to align it to max caster allowed with proper camber and toe. It may still drive shitty... at that point you might need aftermarket UCAs....

 

[dawudih]

Firestone spent over 2 hours & 3 techs just to get caster from low 2's to almost 3 today. Camber is close to zero too. I have bilsteins set to 1.75 and a 1" rear spacer. Mine was fairly squirrelly at speed too. Don't expect too much from them; they don't want to do it unless it's easy.

 

[TfourR]

Nope. No spacers.
The Eibach/Toytec springs (112-620s).

Listed as adding 1.6", so without the old spacers its a net of <1"?

Yeah, totally jacked my 4runner up like whoa... They didn't even try to put it on the rig, just said the big lift on it meant the "numbers wouldn't make sense."

I said "there's no lift" and he replied "I know what I saw." Yeah, okay dude...

I have the same coils with Bilsteins set at 0 and it gave me 2-2.25 inches of lift. I'm assuming you received the same height.

 

[TEujunga]

Firestone spent over 2 hours & 3 techs just to get caster from low 2's to almost 3 today. Camber is close to zero too. I have bilsteins set to 1.75 and a 1" rear spacer. Mine was fairly squirrelly at speed too. Don't expect too much from them; they don't want to do it unless it's easy.

I keep seeing stories like this, and I just don't get it. Whether you have any lift or not, there's really no horribly complex "secret" alignment procedure for the T4R, and there shouldn't be any need for a Super Duper Expert Master Alignment Tech to do it.

There are only 3 adjustment points for alignment on the T4R. The rear cam bolt on the lower control arm adjusts caster. The front cam bolt adjusts camber. The alignment tech might need to juggle between them a time or two to optimize the settings since adjusting one setting will affect the other, but 2 hours to "get" a degree of caster? Absurdity. Unless I'm missing something, maximizing the caster is a simple matter of turning the cam bolt until the adjustment arrow is pointing sideways. That's it :shrug:

The 3rd adjustment point is toe, which is adjusted at the tie rods after the caster and camber are set.

My first post-lift alignment took about 20 minutes once the skid plate was off. I swear, I wonder if most of these stories of "difficult" alignments are based on the tech being too lazy to remove the skid plate to gain access to the cam bolts.

Mind you, I'm no expert, and If I'm wrong about this, I hope some alignment maven will come along to set me straight. Otherwise, it seems to me that what I'm reading is mostly voodoo. As I said in another thread, it ain't rocket surgery.

 

[Trixx]

I took mine to a Midas. Once they got it on the platform, it literally took one tech all of 30-45 minutes to get the alignment on both sides to basically 100% dead center of the ranges required.. I had a 3"/2" lift as well..

After the BS my Toyota dealer pulled on me today about my Camry I'm unsure if I'll ever be back and I might be revising the "great" review I left them after I bought my 4Runner..

 

[Simpleman74]

NEVER go to a dealer if you have modified your vehicle.... they are a bunch of clowns! find a reputable off road shop that speaks MODineese and get it done right. You should be able to get with in spec with what you have installed. Easiest way is to have them max out the caster FIRST and then dial everything back into spec AFTER.

 

[wfo9]

I keep seeing stories like this, and I just don't get it. Whether you have any lift or not, there's really no horribly complex "secret" alignment procedure for the T4R, and there shouldn't be any need for a Super Duper Expert Master Alignment Tech to do it.

There are only 3 adjustment points for alignment on the T4R. The rear cam bolt on the lower control arm adjusts caster. The front cam bolt adjusts camber. The alignment tech might need to juggle between them a time or two to optimize the settings since adjusting one setting will affect the other, but 2 hours to "get" a degree of caster? Absurdity. Unless I'm missing something, maximizing the caster is a simple matter of turning the cam bolt until the adjustment arrow is pointing sideways. That's it :shrug:

The 3rd adjustment point is toe, which is adjusted at the tie rods after the caster and camber are set.

My first post-lift alignment took about 20 minutes once the skid plate was off. I swear, I wonder if most of these stories of "difficult" alignments are based on the tech being too lazy to remove the skid plate to gain access to the cam bolts.

Mind you, I'm no expert, and If I'm wrong about this, I hope some alignment maven will come along to set me straight. Otherwise, it seems to me that what I'm reading is mostly voodoo. As I said in another thread, it ain't rocket surgery.

It's not that simple but also far from rocket science. The cam bolts work together... one is not caster/camber.... All the adjustments impact each other and you usually have to do multiple steering sweeps to get the machine to actually measure accurately (the math is not always right...) The problem at most shops is pure ignorance or pure laziness. Sometimes you get lucky and find a skilled and motivated tech who cares.. I usually go to a local Firestone (were I purchased a lifetime alignment), but I walk out and work with the tech to dial it in. Most listen to me and I've actually had several thank me for teaching them something. Seems like these guys have had very little training.

 

[Leucifer]

wfo9 is pretty on point.

It's not that the dealer "can't".
That dealer, specifically, doesn't want to.

It's not like the equipment is anything magical. Their techs probably don't know what the correct alignment is for your set-up. They're likely trained to just get the 4Runner with stock gear back to the factory settings. You just threw them a curveball that the techs don't know how to answer.

So, because it's not stock + the tech isn't sure of what they're doing + liability issues if they screw it up = dealer is saying "Nope!".

Just me....
I'd take it to a reputable tire/wheel or off-road shop that can get it set right for you. Even if it costs a little more. Once they hammer out what they think, in their experience, is appropriate.... SAVE THAT INFO. You'll be able to use it later to get stuff back to that point, even if you're on a trip someplace and have to hit up Jiffy-McQuick-Tires for work on the fly.

 

[CRSTX]

They had your truck for two days to not do an alignment? Dealer = warranty work only for me. Firestone lifetime alignment was $149 (prices may very) and you can have it done when you want/need for free at over 2300 locations.