had my 02 4runner towed to dealer bc it would not go into gear. Uts an automatic 4wd, 108,000 miles. started right up would noy move. left at dealer. dealer calls next day and says when they tried to give it some gas while in high, it moved a little, then they heard a loud bang. the service guy told me something went through the engine. vehicle is now not worth the price of repair. Any thoughts?
dealer issue
- Thread starter BobNJ
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BrianSD_42
New member
some suggestions:
1) retrieve your vehicle from the dealership.
be sure to document everything before towing it to your house. take pictures of anything that is visible such as the CEL, engine bay, anything new that ies leaking ect. do this while on their lot.
2) find a good mechanic to look the truck. try to find a shop that focuses on Toyotas and is able to do engine work. you don't want to have to go another shop if it needs new heads or something.
this second point is important. if it was me and I did not know any shops in town I would tow it to my house, rent a car and make some calls until I figure out a good place. if you are talking serious engine work then it is worth it to be diligent.
3) you may have to pay some small inspection fee to get your truck back, sorry.
4) hit the forums with better details. pictures, problem description ect.
5) put your city in your sig. you never know you might live down the street from a great shop. if you are in San Diego let me know.
-sent from my droid
1) retrieve your vehicle from the dealership.
be sure to document everything before towing it to your house. take pictures of anything that is visible such as the CEL, engine bay, anything new that ies leaking ect. do this while on their lot.
2) find a good mechanic to look the truck. try to find a shop that focuses on Toyotas and is able to do engine work. you don't want to have to go another shop if it needs new heads or something.
this second point is important. if it was me and I did not know any shops in town I would tow it to my house, rent a car and make some calls until I figure out a good place. if you are talking serious engine work then it is worth it to be diligent.
3) you may have to pay some small inspection fee to get your truck back, sorry.
4) hit the forums with better details. pictures, problem description ect.
5) put your city in your sig. you never know you might live down the street from a great shop. if you are in San Diego let me know.
-sent from my droid
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Update on BobNJ 4runner: tech at Toyota states that he put the vehicle in drive and reverse and no movement. He noticed the transfer case wasin neutral.(not sure how that happened, but is irrellevent to what happened next.)Tech put transfer case into high gear and put shifter into drive. Vehicle moved 5 feet and a loud bang occurred and engine stopped running. he then founfd that the connecting rod cap went through the side of the engone block. Toyota is taking no responsibility at all. question 1. How did this happen? question 2.shouldn't they be responsible for the engine repair? i took it to them to check the trans, they return it to me with a bloen engine and tell me repair cost not worth the value of the vehicle. question 3. is it worth fixing?
i live in Northern Jersey. Thank you for feedback. For the record, I am not mechanical, I just no that I've maintained the vehicle to the book. I even had the timimg belt changed at 100,000 miles. I appreciate any helpful advise you can offer.
i live in Northern Jersey. Thank you for feedback. For the record, I am not mechanical, I just no that I've maintained the vehicle to the book. I even had the timimg belt changed at 100,000 miles. I appreciate any helpful advise you can offer.
update on BobNJ
Update on BobNJ 4runner: tech at Toyota states that he put the vehicle in drive and reverse and no movement. He noticed the transfer case wasin neutral.(not sure how that happened, but is irrellevent to what happened next.)Tech put transfer case into high gear and put shifter into drive. Vehicle moved 5 feet and a loud bang occurred and engine stopped running. he then founfd that the connecting rod cap went through the side of the engone block. Toyota is taking no responsibility at all. question 1. How did this happen? question 2.shouldn't they be responsible for the engine repair? i took it to them to check the trans, they return it to me with a bloen engine and tell me repair cost not worth the value of the vehicle. question 3. is it worth fixing?
i live in Northern Jersey. Thank you for feedback. For the record, I am not mechanical, I just no that I've maintained the vehicle to the book. I even had the timimg belt changed at 100,000 miles. I appreciate any helpful advise you can offer.
Update on BobNJ 4runner: tech at Toyota states that he put the vehicle in drive and reverse and no movement. He noticed the transfer case wasin neutral.(not sure how that happened, but is irrellevent to what happened next.)Tech put transfer case into high gear and put shifter into drive. Vehicle moved 5 feet and a loud bang occurred and engine stopped running. he then founfd that the connecting rod cap went through the side of the engone block. Toyota is taking no responsibility at all. question 1. How did this happen? question 2.shouldn't they be responsible for the engine repair? i took it to them to check the trans, they return it to me with a bloen engine and tell me repair cost not worth the value of the vehicle. question 3. is it worth fixing?
i live in Northern Jersey. Thank you for feedback. For the record, I am not mechanical, I just no that I've maintained the vehicle to the book. I even had the timimg belt changed at 100,000 miles. I appreciate any helpful advise you can offer.
I would think that they would hold some amount of responsibility for the damages to the motor since the truck was brought in running fine but just having a transmission issue. If they can 100% tell you that the transmission caused the rod failure, then that would be a way out of it for them.
Do you have a friend who might be an attorney? This could get ugly and expensive.
Best of luck.
Do you have a friend who might be an attorney? This could get ugly and expensive.
Best of luck.
Nelsonmd
New member
No, they are not really responsible. If you had brought it to them right away, then you would have shifted into gear and thrown the rod. The bottom line is they did not cause the problem. For them to be responsible, they have to have caused the problem. This sucks for sure, but think about if it was your business, you wouldn't take responsibility for people's repairs who brought you in a vehicle that was a ticking time bomb. Not trying to defend dealers or anything, because I think they are usually crooks anyway, but in this case, it really doesn't sound like they did anything wrong.
Now if they were revving excessively trying to make it force itself forward, then that is improper "troubleshooting" and they should be responsible for that, but that will be very difficult to prove after the fact.
Though it seems odd to me that it RAN fine, then the engine ended up failing. If there was a tranny problem, but no engine problem, could that cause a thrown rod? Like if the tranny was locked up and he forced the engine? Then you might have a case.
Now if they were revving excessively trying to make it force itself forward, then that is improper "troubleshooting" and they should be responsible for that, but that will be very difficult to prove after the fact.
Though it seems odd to me that it RAN fine, then the engine ended up failing. If there was a tranny problem, but no engine problem, could that cause a thrown rod? Like if the tranny was locked up and he forced the engine? Then you might have a case.
TheDurk
Elite Member
Good post, Matt. But I don't think it could happen they way you describe at the end. I wonder if maybe he tried revving the engine up and then, trying to get in gear because of a sloppy linkage, it suddenly popped into gear while he had his foot on the brake. Maybe that could cause a rod to break but I'm surprised that would be the point of fail. I don't know much (anything) about slushboxes, though, never owned one.
However, if that did happen, you would think there would be damage at more than just the one rod that went through the block. THIS would be a dead giveaway that they did something, as opposed to a component whose time had come to fail. But it would take an engine and tranny teardown to find any such evidence. And they would still probably argue that it was collateral from the cap fail, if they could.
Is it Morristown Toyota?--I am not a fan of their service dept., although I haven't been there since my warranty ran out ('03?).
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LittleCaesar
New member
Where I am lost is why they were messing around with the T-case in the first place.
If the engine started fine in the OP's driveway or garage, idled down to ~700 RPMs, but the tranny still would not go into gear, I do not see how he is liable for a replacement engine. If the connecting rod had broken apart while at the OP's residence, it would stand to reason the engine would not have started or it would have sounded like a garbage disposal on steroids for a very short time. But it sounds like the indigents at the dealership failed to check the basics such as checking the linkage, pulling the tranny pan, drive shaft inspection, so instead they just began to force the 4runner to move with dire results.
If the engine started fine in the OP's driveway or garage, idled down to ~700 RPMs, but the tranny still would not go into gear, I do not see how he is liable for a replacement engine. If the connecting rod had broken apart while at the OP's residence, it would stand to reason the engine would not have started or it would have sounded like a garbage disposal on steroids for a very short time. But it sounds like the indigents at the dealership failed to check the basics such as checking the linkage, pulling the tranny pan, drive shaft inspection, so instead they just began to force the 4runner to move with dire results.
I appreciate all of your comments. Unfortunately I don't know enough to challenge them. I like Little Ceasars comments about them going through a proper check list prior to attempting to move the vehivcle from outside into the shop. Is there a standard operating procedure for checking a tranny issue?
LittleCaesar
New member
Bob,
Not to my knowledge. I would bet that each Toy dealership in NJ has its own operating procedures in tackling problems. Durk may know more since it probably varies per each dealership and indys in NJ. When I worked for an Acura dealership in SC during a summer in college, there were standards to follow on each car set by Honda of America but no one followed them and I soon learned depending on the problem of each car which technician should get the problem car or SUV. That did not always happen though. Corners are cut, lots of them, just to get the job done. Time, more than anything else, was the enemy here.
I'd ask the dealership what they did from the time they got your 4runner to the time the engine blew up. Get it in writing. Then go to other Toy dealerships and maybe a couple of independent shops and see if they would have done the same thing.
Not to my knowledge. I would bet that each Toy dealership in NJ has its own operating procedures in tackling problems. Durk may know more since it probably varies per each dealership and indys in NJ. When I worked for an Acura dealership in SC during a summer in college, there were standards to follow on each car set by Honda of America but no one followed them and I soon learned depending on the problem of each car which technician should get the problem car or SUV. That did not always happen though. Corners are cut, lots of them, just to get the job done. Time, more than anything else, was the enemy here.
I'd ask the dealership what they did from the time they got your 4runner to the time the engine blew up. Get it in writing. Then go to other Toy dealerships and maybe a couple of independent shops and see if they would have done the same thing.
value as is
This BobNJ again. frustration with dealer is mounting. does anyone know what the value of my 03 4runner limited Sport edition is? Keep in mind it has a hole in the engine block from the connecting rod cap. iIam looking to use as a trade in, that's why I need the value, or to sell it, as is, to someone who knows how to fix it.
This BobNJ again. frustration with dealer is mounting. does anyone know what the value of my 03 4runner limited Sport edition is? Keep in mind it has a hole in the engine block from the connecting rod cap. iIam looking to use as a trade in, that's why I need the value, or to sell it, as is, to someone who knows how to fix it.
It is an 02. I only know the kelly book it is between 9,600 and 12,300. I understand that is not what someone would pay me. If you deduct the cost of your repairs and even having the vehicle shipped to you from a reasonable total, I believe we have a starting point. Sound fair?
Singtoe
New member
You ultimately have to determine a price. Bluebook and NADA values are only for running cars. If you base the price on Bluebook -minus cost to repair (Motor and transmission), you wouldn't make get much money at all.
Unfortunately, I am like 7 hours away and it would have to be priced really good to ship it down.
May be the other members can help set a price for you to sell. There again, Craigslist or ebay is an easy way to unload it at price you want - Maybe.
Unfortunately, I am like 7 hours away and it would have to be priced really good to ship it down.
May be the other members can help set a price for you to sell. There again, Craigslist or ebay is an easy way to unload it at price you want - Maybe.
techno
New member
From the descriptions of events and damage, here are my thoughts on what possibly occurred.
An unidentified problem has occured in the transmission.
You had it towed and the transfer case was put into neutral for the tow.
The dealer attempts to recreate the issue so they can better diagnose the problem.
Something in the bad transmission locks up (torque conv maybe?) and tries to resist the engines drive force.
One of the cylinders is on it's power stroke at this time which results in power vs immovable transmission.
Something has to give, and the bearing cap for that cylinder volunteers for the job.
In this case, I would be looking for a wrecked donor vehicle with a good engine and tranny and doing a simple swap. I think you could find something easily. There are plenty of guys parting out their rigs right now.
An unidentified problem has occured in the transmission.
You had it towed and the transfer case was put into neutral for the tow.
The dealer attempts to recreate the issue so they can better diagnose the problem.
Something in the bad transmission locks up (torque conv maybe?) and tries to resist the engines drive force.
One of the cylinders is on it's power stroke at this time which results in power vs immovable transmission.
Something has to give, and the bearing cap for that cylinder volunteers for the job.
In this case, I would be looking for a wrecked donor vehicle with a good engine and tranny and doing a simple swap. I think you could find something easily. There are plenty of guys parting out their rigs right now.
