Dealer tried scare tactics to take her to the cleaners

[Dpassmore]

She recently bought an 06 v6 4x4 150k. Very nice truck. She had a great relationship with the dealerships with her last 2 cars. First thing I told her when she bought it was the inner boots were beginning to leak. Shortly after she bought it we installed a daystar leveling kit. Some grease came out during the install. No big deal. I know they are leaking but it's not a big deal. They wanted $1550 for axles.
She took it in for an OLF, and they hammered her saying the lift kit had the driveline at a severe angle and had damaged the axles, saying the frt diff would need to be dropped. Went on to try and sell her frt cover reseal, water pump and a bunch of services. For a total of over 4K. The frt cover and water pump only show seepage from 150k miles. No drips whatsoever. The tech tried to scare her saying that he had a lifted truck and the axle came out blah blah blah. That by the time she visibly saw oil leaking it would be an emergency.
As a tech for 20 years and an advisor for 10 years, kinda makes me mad when people try and "scare" their customers into a big purchase. Especially a first time customer without helping them prioritize their needs first. If I remember right the water pump and frt cover were $2700 alone.
Do they really expect her to come back?

 

[Sungod]

So you think boots are over rated and it is safe to drive around with them leaking? Personally I could really care less about what other people do to themselves, but we all have to drive on the same roads. I wish all states had a safety inspection to keep dangerous junk off the road.

You pretty much supported the dealers findings. Why are you shocked that they suggested replacing the parts? Of course the dealer is always going to be more expensive, but in your 20 years, you should have learned that by now. Yeah, my arm is broken, but it isn't that bad so I don't know why they wanted to put it in a cast.......

 

[who done it]

^^ Calm down there spanky, I think almost everyone here who has lifted their truck found out the had a bit of grease leaking out of the boots and eventually got it fixed. I agree with the OP, dealers have tried taking my female friends for a ride when getting the car fixed. But that's the reason they have us.

 

[preacher35]

Typically, I always go with my wife to the dealer or the mechanic when she needs to as they almost ALWAYS try to take advantage of her. For those of you in Southeast Texas, the worst for us was GAY PONTIAC GMC. These crooked Aholes would always either misdiagnose or try to terrify her with a two foot long list of issues that would turn out to be routine maintenance.

Example: Wife took our Acadia to the dealership to have a transmission issue taken care of under warranty. One week later, upon picking up the vehicle, she complained of a terrible vibration upon acceleration. She turned around and went back to the dealership whom told her that she had an offbalance tire and that they would be happy to balance it for her for a fee, as well as a list of other items (including, if you can believe it or not, transmission fluid replacement, even though they just rebuilt it). However, when I drove it, it was extremely clear that the dealership had broken an engine mount during the tranny repair. I immediately went to the dealer and spoke to the mechanic that worked on our tranny. This ahole sat there with a straight face and said "Yes, I saw the broken engine mount, but I am not allowed to 'upcharge' you for that repair. You have to first tell me that you know about it before I can go about fixing it".... WHAT?!???! Total douche bag. I looked at this wiener with a clenched fist and told him "you're the one that BROKE THE DAMNED MOUNT IN THE FIRST ****ING PLACE!!!!!"

I know that this is not representative of all dealerships. However, if you are female and not familiar with the mechanicals of your vehicle, take someone with who is. You are, unquestionably, a target. Oh, btw, we immediately got rid of the Acadia... That was, hands down THE WORST vehicle that I have ever owned in my entire life. The amount of bizarre problems that came up was mind boggling, but I digress.

 

[nevada]

So you think boots are over rated and it is safe to drive around with them leaking? Personally I could really care less about what other people do to themselves, but we all have to drive on the same roads. I wish all states had a safety inspection to keep dangerous junk off the road.

You pretty much supported the dealers findings. Why are you shocked that they suggested replacing the parts? Of course the dealer is always going to be more expensive, but in your 20 years, you should have learned that by now. Yeah, my arm is broken, but it isn't that bad so I don't know why they wanted to put it in a cast.......

how is a leaking cv axle boot unsafe?

 

[Sungod]

how is a leaking cv axle boot unsafe?

Seriously? You are right, grease is over rated. Nothing could happen if the joint freezes up and grenades. Would you want to be the one behind someone when that happens at 70mph?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Typically, I always go with my wife to the dealer or the mechanic when she needs to as they almost ALWAYS try to take advantage of her. For those of you in Southeast Texas, the worst for us was GAY PONTIAC GMC. These crooked Aholes would always either misdiagnose or try to terrify her with a two foot long list of issues that would turn out to be routine maintenance.

Example: Wife took our Acadia to the dealership to have a transmission issue taken care of under warranty. One week later, upon picking up the vehicle, she complained of a terrible vibration upon acceleration. She turned around and went back to the dealership whom told her that she had an offbalance tire and that they would be happy to balance it for her for a fee, as well as a list of other items (including, if you can believe it or not, transmission fluid replacement, even though they just rebuilt it). However, when I drove it, it was extremely clear that the dealership had broken an engine mount during the tranny repair. I immediately went to the dealer and spoke to the mechanic that worked on our tranny. This ahole sat there with a straight face and said "Yes, I saw the broken engine mount, but I am not allowed to 'upcharge' you for that repair. You have to first tell me that you know about it before I can go about fixing it".... WHAT?!???! Total douche bag. I looked at this wiener with a clenched fist and told him "you're the one that BROKE THE DAMNED MOUNT IN THE FIRST ****ING PLACE!!!!!"

I know that this is not representative of all dealerships. However, if you are female and not familiar with the mechanicals of your vehicle, take someone with who is. You are, unquestionably, a target. Oh, btw, we immediately got rid of the Acadia... That was, hands down THE WORST vehicle that I have ever owned in my entire life. The amount of bizarre problems that came up was mind boggling, but I digress.

Not to justify what the technician did, but rather to play Devil's Advocate to explain something.

For example, Toyota does not want us fixings under warranty unless the customer complains about it. We have tons of TSBs and Recalls that specify they are not applicable until the customer complains of this issue (i.e. driveline clunk.)

You stated that your wife had the transmission repaired under warranty, lets assume that the engine mount was broken before the repair (I can't say either way because I wasn't there, but this is hypothetical.) The technician would get in trouble if he upsold an engine mount under warranty when the customer didn't complain about the issue. This is something we (Toyota Dealerships in this case) ran into when doing things like Water Pumps and Struts. So it is very possible that if he even mentioned it anywhere on the Repair Order for the Warranty work, he could have gotten in trouble by his FST (Factory Service Technician, basically a cross between Toyota Factory Support and Internal Affairs) if the guy was really a jerk.

Now then, she came back with a complaint that fit with a broken engine mount. At that point that technician should have been able to say "hey, yeah engine mount is broken" and while it would have been a bit of a pain because of the repair; it should have been okay to cover under warranty.

Its a really stupid system, but its how Warranty is done these day. Companies don't want to fix stuff under warranty unless they are forced to by the customer. So if the customer doesn't notice and lets it slip out of the warranty period its not the company's problem anymore. But if the dealer tries to do due diligence (or eve make some money off warranty, either way the customer wins in this scenario) they get nailed pretty hard with audits and such. Its part of the reason why warranty work at the dealer is so tricky now and why many dealers would rather deny a warranty claim than go through with it.

Post Note-

In regards to the OP, I can empathize about using scare tactics in general to scare customers into purchasing items/services; but I have to say that sometimes its needed. I've had customers that are so oblivious to the function of their vehicles that they're okay with driving on their tire's belts and letting a broken suspension arm go unrepaired. But usually when I'm asked to explain these things to a customer I do so in a manner that, yes is considered scare tactics, but I try to explain to the customer the very real danger they are putting themselves in and educate them on it.

 

[toyotatech84]

I can side with the advisor and the customer on both ends. The wifey has a Terrain and the GMC dealer sure likes to mess with her vehicle and drives me nuts. I have had to physically show customers how bad stuff is to the point that it would be considered scare tactics. Hell ive even gone as far as to drop the children card. like "do you really want your kids riding in this vehicle with bald tires or no brakes?" Yes its not the best thing to do but some people need to have their eyes opened.

 

[nevada]

I can side with the advisor and the customer on both ends. The wifey has a Terrain and the GMC dealer sure likes to mess with her vehicle and drives me nuts. I have had to physically show customers how bad stuff is to the point that it would be considered scare tactics. Hell ive even gone as far as to drop the children card. like "do you really want your kids riding in this vehicle with bald tires or no brakes?" Yes its not the best thing to do but some people need to have their eyes opened.

yep, ive done the same.

 

[KidVermicious]

Its a really stupid system, but its how Warranty is done these day. Companies don't want to fix stuff under warranty unless they are forced to by the customer. So if the customer doesn't notice and lets it slip out of the warranty period its not the company's problem anymore. But if the dealer tries to do due diligence (or eve make some money off warranty, either way the customer wins in this scenario) they get nailed pretty hard with audits and such. Its part of the reason why warranty work at the dealer is so tricky now and why many dealers would rather deny a warranty claim than go through with it.

Out of curiosity, what if I bring you my truck and say "my warranty expires in a couple of months, please go over my truck top to bottom and make sure there's nothing that needs attention while it still costs me nothing"? How does Toyota instruct you to handle that?

 

[MikeInNH]

Telling/scaring a customer they need a particular service that if not taken care of could lead to personal injury is one thing. And I don't really have a problem with it.

What I do NOT like to see (although I've seen it way too often)..is for a dealer (or an independent) doing scare tactics on service that is NOT needed.

 

[Dpassmore]

If it was the outer boots, I'd be more concerned. Inners are not as much a priority to me. Most of the grease is from prying the lca's down instaling the lift.
They also told her forget anything under warranty since it's lifted. OMG, it has 150k on it. She doesn't expect anything warranty. When she bought it I looked pretty close and didn't see any signs of the frt cover or pump leaking. Even if there is a stain there, I don't think it should be advised as leaking. It's not that I don't think it should've been inspected for needed service. I support that, but when she calls me all freaked out nearly in tears, I think it was presented wrong.

If the brakes were going to the floor about to fail or tires unsafe, that would be different, although even then scare tactics are still not the way to approach it.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Out of curiosity, what if I bring you my truck and say "my warranty expires in a couple of months, please go over my truck top to bottom and make sure there's nothing that needs attention while it still costs me nothing"? How does Toyota instruct you to handle that?

Typically from what I have seen the customer may or may not be charged an inspection fee and (usually this happens when they are getting an oil change done so its rolled into the multi-point inspection line so not to draw attention) usually we have a note on the Repair Order to see the Service Advisor who basically says, "do a really thorough look over of the vehicle for the customer and let me know." Then a good service writer will just change the findings to "Customer states that..." or give a list to the customer and have then reschedule for another appointment (we're not supposed to do warranty work on the same visit regularly as it sends red flags to Warranty apparently?)

It kinda crooked, but that's how its typically done if a customer asks us to basically look for problems to have Toyota foot the bill.

 

[Dpassmore]

Techs and advisors are not allowed to "sell" warranty. As in, if your vehicle is under warranty and they are repairing a water pump under warranty and notice the pwr door lock inop, thay can't add that to the ticket. However if they noticed a brake line leaking, they would since it is considered a safety item. That's the way it was at GM.
Basically this prevents the tech/advisor from "writing their own paycheck"
They can't inspect a vehicle for warranty repairs just because "it's about to go out of warranty". During a repair or routine service is different, but again, they aren't supposed to willingly make warranty repair recommendations.

 

[preacher35]

Not to justify what the technician did, but rather to play Devil's Advocate to explain something.

For example, Toyota does not want us fixings under warranty unless the customer complains about it. We have tons of TSBs and Recalls that specify they are not applicable until the customer complains of this issue (i.e. driveline clunk.)

You stated that your wife had the transmission repaired under warranty, lets assume that the engine mount was broken before the repair (I can't say either way because I wasn't there, but this is hypothetical.) The technician would get in trouble if he upsold an engine mount under warranty when the customer didn't complain about the issue. This is something we (Toyota Dealerships in this case) ran into when doing things like Water Pumps and Struts. So it is very possible that if he even mentioned it anywhere on the Repair Order for the Warranty work, he could have gotten in trouble by his FST (Factory Service Technician, basically a cross between Toyota Factory Support and Internal Affairs) if the guy was really a jerk.

Now then, she came back with a complaint that fit with a broken engine mount. At that point that technician should have been able to say "hey, yeah engine mount is broken" and while it would have been a bit of a pain because of the repair; it should have been okay to cover under warranty.

Its a really stupid system, but its how Warranty is done these day. Companies don't want to fix stuff under warranty unless they are forced to by the customer. So if the customer doesn't notice and lets it slip out of the warranty period its not the company's problem anymore. But if the dealer tries to do due diligence (or eve make some money off warranty, either way the customer wins in this scenario) they get nailed pretty hard with audits and such. Its part of the reason why warranty work at the dealer is so tricky now and why many dealers would rather deny a warranty claim than go through with it.

Post Note-

In regards to the OP, I can empathize about using scare tactics in general to scare customers into purchasing items/services; but I have to say that sometimes its needed. I've had customers that are so oblivious to the function of their vehicles that they're okay with driving on their tire's belts and letting a broken suspension arm go unrepaired. But usually when I'm asked to explain these things to a customer I do so in a manner that, yes is considered scare tactics, but I try to explain to the customer the very real danger they are putting themselves in and educate them on it.

I understand that if there was the possibility that the engine mount had been broken, preceding the tranny repair, that might make A LITTLE SENSE. But no, the engine mount WAS NOT BROKEN before said tranny repair. Our Acadia only had 28k miles on it and I know what a broken engine mount feels and sounds like. This was a front wheel drive vehicle. They had to remove the engine with the trannny. The lag-time-vibration and sound was extremely clear and obvious. He knew they broke it; we knew they broke it. I understand that you are in the biz and I appreciate your devil's advocate stance. But seriously, offering to change the tranny fluid, after they just rebuilt it and charging my wife for that? C'mon! If it had been me, confronting them the first time, none of that would have even been suggested. Women get fleeced and that's all that there is to that.

 

[Dpassmore]

I understand that if there was the possibility that the engine mount had been broken, preceding the tranny repair, that might make A LITTLE SENSE. But no, the engine mount WAS NOT BROKEN before said tranny repair. Our Acadia only had 28k miles on it and I know what a broken engine mount feels and sounds like. This was a front wheel drive vehicle. They had to remove the engine with the trannny. The lag-time-vibration and sound was extremely clear and obvious. He knew they broke it; we knew they broke it. I understand that you are in the biz and I appreciate your devil's advocate stance. But seriously, offering to change the tranny fluid, after they just rebuilt it and charging my wife for that? C'mon! If it had been me, confronting them the first time, none of that would have even been suggested. Women get fleeced and that's all that there is to that.

In your case if it was broken and the tech found it during the repair and was not caused by impact damage, it could've and should've been replaced during the repair since it was a related repair.
In the event the tech damaged it during the repair, the tech should've advised the SM and it should've been charged to internal.

Honestly, a tech/SA that is dishonest and tries to upsell unneeded repairs will not limit their practices to just women, they will try it on anyone. I've witnessed it for years. Most techs and advisors are honest, some just more aggressive than others. However. some write the estimate before the car comes in.......

 

[iBison]

It's really nice to have a son that can repair the vehicle things I can't.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I understand that if there was the possibility that the engine mount had been broken, preceding the tranny repair, that might make A LITTLE SENSE. But no, the engine mount WAS NOT BROKEN before said tranny repair. Our Acadia only had 28k miles on it and I know what a broken engine mount feels and sounds like. This was a front wheel drive vehicle. They had to remove the engine with the trannny. The lag-time-vibration and sound was extremely clear and obvious. He knew they broke it; we knew they broke it. I understand that you are in the biz and I appreciate your devil's advocate stance. But seriously, offering to change the tranny fluid, after they just rebuilt it and charging my wife for that? C'mon! If it had been me, confronting them the first time, none of that would have even been suggested. Women get fleeced and that's all that there is to that.

I was just providing a small window into how Warranty unfortunately works. As I said, I wasn't there so I can't speak to what happened in terms of if the technician broke it or not. But rather that if he did know about it, there's an unfortunately justified reason why he may have not done anything about it from a warranty stand point.

In your case it sounds like crap work, I also agree the tranny fluid flush being suggested just after a new transmission is poor service writing and/or criminal.

 

[preacher35]

In your case if it was broken and the tech found it during the repair and was not caused by impact damage, it could've and should've been replaced during the repair since it was a related repair.
In the event the tech damaged it during the repair, the tech should've advised the SM and it should've been charged to internal.

Honestly, a tech/SA that is dishonest and tries to upsell unneeded repairs will not limit their practices to just women, they will try it on anyone. I've witnessed it for years. Most techs and advisors are honest, some just more aggressive than others. However. some write the estimate before the car comes in.......

Maybe it's just a matter of, proportionally, men, for the most part, seem to be a little more auto/technically savy than most women and thus, do not get fleeced as often. But, your point is well taken.

And, BlackworksInc, your point is well taken. As always, your viewpoint and advice is very much appreciated. I know that not all dealer techs are dishonest or bad. It's just that, on a macro-scale, I think that women have it a little tougher than men, when it comes to auto repair.

 

[Sungod]

Maybe it's just a matter of, proportionally, men, for the most part, seem to be a little more auto/technically savy than most women and thus, do not get fleeced as often. But, your point is well taken.

And, BlackworksInc, your point is well taken. As always, your viewpoint and advice is very much appreciated. I know that not all dealer techs are dishonest or bad. It's just that, on a macro-scale, I think that women have it a little tougher than men, when it comes to auto repair.

In all my years of working in the auto industry, I can count on one hand the number of truly dishonest techs/service writers. Even with those, they were actually more interested in ripping off the company than actual customers. I think a lot of what is confused with taking advantage of people is really stupidity and pure laziness. Having a big fancy tool box doesn't always mean the guy actually knows what he is doing.