Dealers behaving unethically regarding TRD Pro orders/sales

[KWolff]

You know i have been discussing this via PM with a lot of members regarding the new TRD PRO dealer sales.

I want to say that if a dealer is straight forward right off the bat that they want a markup on their allocation there is nothing wrong with that. that is capitalism. I don't care if its 30k over MSRP if that's what they disclose BEFORE taking your deposit and running your credit than more power to them.

My problem is with two major issues:

1. Interest free loans via us the consumers. I am talking about dealers taking a deposit on a car that they can't guarantee the allocation on although wording or making you believe somehow you're the only one that has a deposit on this particular vehicle. I know of a dealer who has 3k plus in deposit on a future allocation on a TRD Pro they have not even got from Toyota...yet.

2. Dealers that tell you MSRP or invoice pricing is good till AFTER your car arrives, they run your credit and have you sitting in the dealership then all of a sudden "Our guy made a mistake in the ad, or general manger says we have to charge over MSRP and our sales guy made a mistake". AKA "Bait and switch". You will even see managers say that in the ad fine print it allows for "a mistake" although they will allow the "mistake" to run for days on the online ad till the vehicle is sold.

Remember you as a consumer can report this to your Attorney General or DA's office in your county/state. Also Yelp/BBB etc...

From what I have heard contacting Toyota corporate seems to fall on deaf ears.

I hope this thread is ok with the mods but I think we should discuss openly dealers and name them, not just the ones that behaved unethically but the ones that were 100% ethical in their words and agreement.

 

[1engineer]

It's fine but it's about dealer ethics, not 5th gen 4Runners.
-mod-

 

[yardsale]

If a consumer wants to put down 3k on a truck a dealer may or may not get, it's between him and the dealer. Not you OP. Why would Toyota Corporate care? The thing is, there are a lot of people in this world who make a lot of money. For them tying up 3K in the hopes of getting a particular vehicle is not even an inconvenience. TRD Pro is a popular model. That's just how it is and complaining on this forum won't change a thing.

 

[yardsale]

And furthermore OP, you live in the Bay Area. You ought to know how things work.

 

[KWolff]

And furthermore OP, you live in the Bay Area. You ought to know how things work.

I'm sorry I'm not sure if you read my OP but I said I have no problem if the dealer and client work out a deal with 30k over MSRP. My issues are with #1 and #2 I listed above.

Like I said I have no problem with capitalism but my issue is with lack of ethics.

Edited to clarify, If a dealer has no allocation or has no intention of filling an allocation for as long as possible by misleading or decieving a customer(for an interest free loan) it is something that should be discussed so others on this forum or the public that reads it don't put up their money for something they will never get.

If someone was scamming your neighbors wouldnt you want to let others know or is it just their own business? You know because that's just how things work wherever you're from?

 

[SlickTRD]

Point 1 - Dealers have no idea if they have allocations or not unless they take deposits and try and order. How do you propose they fix this then?

Point 2 - Get the price in writing. Not sure what you are doing but when I put my deposit on my TRDP, I got the price and options in writing before I put a deposit.

And finally, have patience. The cars are rare but not unobtainable for MSRP. I said it to you before but you need to search outside of your comfort zone and start searching further. I placed an order in January through a local dealership to tell me in March that they may not get one for 6 months. I then put a deposit for dealership outside my state to find me one and I had to wait only two weeks for it but the two weeks felt like forever. Good luck but stop wasting your energy complaining. It really wont get you anywhere.

 

[yardsale]

I'm sorry I'm not sure if you read my OP but I said I have no problem if the dealer and client work out a deal with 30k over MSRP. My issues are with #1 and #2 I listed above.

Like I said I have no problem with capitalism but my issue is with lack of ethics.

Edited to clarify, If a dealer has no allocation or has no intention of filling an allocation for as long as possible by misleading or decieving a customer(for an interest free loan) it is something that should be discussed so others on this forum or the public that reads it don't put up their money for something they will never get.

If someone was scamming your neighbors wouldnt you want to let others know or is it just their own business? You know because that's just how things work wherever you're from?

The reason I made the second comment is because there is an incredible amount of wealth in your neck of the woods and a lot of people who can afford to put down a deposit on a car they will never see. And if you were a car dealer and people were throwing money at you of course you would keep as much of it as you could. Sometimes ethics go out the window with the promise of profit.

 

[KWolff]

The reason I made the second comment is because there is an incredible amount of wealth in your neck of the woods and a lot of people who can afford to put down a deposit on a car they will never see. And if you were a car dealer and people were throwing money at you of course you would keep as much of it as you could. Sometimes ethics go out the window with the promise of profit.

I am somewhat in sales as part of my job. I am not a car dealer but maybe my ethics or way of thinking is old school but once I enter into a business agreement or contract with someone I don't change the terms of the transaction or back out, let alone lie to get out of the transaction if I get a better offer.

Sure I may lose money short term as I too, sell a product that is in high demand but long term I am rewarded with a loyal customer.

I have also seen that recently this type of behavior is viewed as acceptable. Where I'm from your word is your bond or contract. In fact the state of California honors verbal contracts. The fact I have to request a transaction/price in writing is kind of alien to me.

I actually have been involved with car shopping for many years, I got a 07 GT500 when they first came out and dealt with MSRP and dealer mark up madness. I am just appalled by the unethical TRD Pro Toyota antics and just had to post about it.

 

[mrblah]

ethics...welcome to the real world. Anytime money exchanges hands, its a good idea to get everything in writing.

It's pretty much common sense.

BTW, when you buy a car that is made in low production or has high demand, prepare for some dealer shinanigans... It's not a "TRD PRO TOYOTA antics" whatever that means. If you don't like one dealer, go find another dealer......like what the rest of us do when we want something bad.

 

[KWolff]

Point 1 - Dealers have no idea if they have allocations or not unless they take deposits and try and order. How do you propose they fix this then?

Point 2 - Get the price in writing. Not sure what you are doing but when I put my deposit on my TRDP, I got the price and options in writing before I put a deposit.

And finally, have patience. The cars are rare but not unobtainable for MSRP. I said it to you before but you need to search outside of your comfort zone and start searching further. I placed an order in January through a local dealership to tell me in March that they may not get one for 6 months. I then put a deposit for dealership outside my state to find me one and I had to wait only two weeks for it but the two weeks felt like forever. Good luck but stop wasting your energy complaining. It really wont get you anywhere.

The problem is we as consumers have no idea if the dealer will be getting a new allocation or not. What the dealer knows or not doesn't matter. They should not be taking on deposits of something they can't promise.

I too sell a product that is in incredibly high demand but because of production issues I won't take deposits from an ethical standpoint because I have no idea when those customers would be receiving their products.

Maybe I'm just getting old but I come from a time when someone gives you their word I could rely on it instead of requesting things like a price of a new car in writing. I get it, if you finance or are in the process of purchasing a vehicle that has to be documented but we're talking about just requesting or asking about a car being in stock and its pricing.

 

[KWolff]

ethics...welcome to the real world. Anytime money exchanges hands, its a good idea to get everything in writing.

It's pretty much common sense.

BTW, when you buy a car that is made in low production or has high demand, prepare for some dealer shinanigans... It's not a "TRD PRO TOYOTA antics" whatever that means. If you don't like one dealer, go find another dealer......like what the rest of us do when we want something bad.

That's what I did, I should be getting my TRD Pro in the next few days.

I thought that maybe exchanging info in this thread could be productive so people don't have money tied up or their FICO dinged because of shady/unethical dealers.

I mean if this behavior from dealers is acceptable then we may as well lock or delete this thread. I was just hoping this thread could benefit the community, you guys are awesome and I don't want to piss anyone off here. You guys have a wealth of info and I hope I did'nt come off in the wrong way.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist through and through and like I said if a dealer can sell one for 30k over markup, more power to them.

 

[fayewong]

Is there such thing as an ethical dealership in the first place?

 

[JimPA]

I have no need or enough coin for a TRD Pro. KWolff, I think an answer to the issues you presented would be for anyone seeking to buy a TRD Pro to become a more educated buyer. There and many threads where the community shared their TRD Pro dealer experiences with details.

I think I being Captain Obvious and the OP was just trying to expand on this. Not sure why all the resistance.

 

[gundrted+t4r]

Is there such thing as an ethical dealership in the first place?

Yes there is .... its called an auto broker.

The auto broker works for you and has partnerships with dealership's fleet sales devisions. The broker builds the relationship with fleet sales at different dealers. All fleet sales care about is volume. If a dealer screws an auto broker they are not just screwing one deal. They could be loosing hundreds of sales. They are not tied to a dealer or a finance option. The broker finds the best deal and passes it to you. Everyone wins ... yes everyone.

When we got our '15 Limited we test drove both the 4Runner and Grand Cherokee at our auto broker. The had both cars delivered to their location. We did a back to back test drive and went over pros/cons of both. We called him a few days later saying we would go with the 4Runner. A few days later we discussed the options he had found. Limiteds were well below MSRP and had rebates. The TRDP was MSRP. The next day he asked me to stop by. He had a Limited that was still in plastic wrap. It was black with red-ish brown leather ... amazing. He handed me the pricing sheet with a number circled and that was it. We came back a few days later and picked it up.

I just got a '17 TRDORP to replace my '08 Wrangler Rubicon. Same deal, but no test drive needed. A few trips to this office to look at pricing sheets and that was it. He found one in coming from Japan and attached his name to it. He also took my Wrangler in 'trade'. It was complete seporate deal. He brokered it out locally and we took the highest offer. 4-ish weeks later I was picking up my TRDORP and a very nice check for my Jeep.

Both of our 4Runners are leased and neither is with Toyota financing. Dealerships are often locked into who they can use for financing. Never mind the BS they pull to make deals 'look' better. Our broker found the best lease a local Colorado credit union. We saved about $80 per month on the '15 and $50-ish per month by not using Toyota Financing. Keep in mind the price of the care doesn't change. The difference in cost is all in the effective interest rate.

Both times we could have got TRDP for MSRP both times we passed. My girlfriend liked the Limited styling better for her. For me the TRDP is not a good value, but I won't go down that road.

I will say Toyota did an amazing job of tapping into the market trend of: offer less, limit production to make it exclusive and charge more for it.

As for buying a car from an ethical dealer, go to an auto broker. I'm sure there are brokers out there that are just as bad as dealers, but do the homework. A good broker works for you. Your happiness will pay huge dividends in referrals. The broker we use doesn't even advertise. Everything is word of mouth. A really good broker will also take care of you after the sale. Windshields and tires can often be had at dealer cost.

In short ... give the dealership the finger, let someone else deal with them and go find an auto broker.

 

[Bob22222]

You know i have been discussing this via PM with a lot of members regarding the new TRD PRO dealer sales.

I want to say that if a dealer is straight forward right off the bat that they want a markup on their allocation there is nothing wrong with that. that is capitalism. I don't care if its 30k over MSRP if that's what they disclose BEFORE taking your deposit and running your credit than more power to them.

My problem is with two major issues:

1. Interest free loans via us the consumers. I am talking about dealers taking a deposit on a car that they can't guarantee the allocation on although wording or making you believe somehow you're the only one that has a deposit on this particular vehicle. I know of a dealer who has 3k plus in deposit on a future allocation on a TRD Pro they have not even got from Toyota...yet.

2. Dealers that tell you MSRP or invoice pricing is good till AFTER your car arrives, they run your credit and have you sitting in the dealership then all of a sudden "Our guy made a mistake in the ad, or general manger says we have to charge over MSRP and our sales guy made a mistake". AKA "Bait and switch". You will even see managers say that in the ad fine print it allows for "a mistake" although they will allow the "mistake" to run for days on the online ad till the vehicle is sold.

Remember you as a consumer can report this to your Attorney General or DA's office in your county/state. Also Yelp/BBB etc...

From what I have heard contacting Toyota corporate seems to fall on deaf ears.

I hope this thread is ok with the mods but I think we should discuss openly dealers and name them, not just the ones that behaved unethically but the ones that were 100% ethical in their words and agreement.

Come to Colorado and get this one?
https://www.libertytoyotacoloradosp...-springs-dac2254b0a0e0adf12abe617bf81ac32.htm

 

[CO-Cygnus]

Come to Colorado and get this one?
https://www.libertytoyotacoloradosp...-springs-dac2254b0a0e0adf12abe617bf81ac32.htm

$50K with 20,000mi on the clock? Wow.

 

[Bob22222]

It ain't cheap to be cool. I wonder how upside down you'd be in 14 months?

 

[gundrted+t4r]

I'm still shocked by that price and surprised that people are whiling to pay it.

For that price you could by a new '17 TRDORP with a full warranty, get more options and still have money left over to add the TRDP shocks, skid plate and rim/tires. Even if you did aftermarket you would spend similar and get better equipment.

I know its a personal choice, but I just don't get it.

 

[CO-Cygnus]

It ain't cheap to be cool. I wonder how upside down you'd be in 14 months?

You'd already be $8K in the hole if you were buying it new.

 

[Bob22222]

You'd already be $8K in the hole if you were buying it new.

I know scarry isn't it. But, I think the OP said he doesn't care how much the dealership makes if theiy are upfront about it. Good time of year to drive through the Southwest as well.
A bit more seriously, I wonder what some lunnies are paying for these things? Any reports?