deposit down for 2015 model, now dealer says can't find one, needs more $

[kapp_badbloodz]

The OP seems to have signed a document stating that they'll deliver what he asked within 120 days or they'll order one optioned the way he asked for without any option to cancel the deal and keep his deposit.

OP seems to be up the creek sans paddle given the document. Is it normal to be so locked in when putting a deposit towards a new vehicle?

They can't force you to pay more than you agreed to. If they fail to find a vehicle or fail to order a 2016 at the price you agreed to, then they're likely breaching the contract on their end, and you're entitled to your deposit back (obviously I can't tell you for sure since I haven't looked at the contract). You'd probably have to wait the 120 day period before it's considered a breach on the dealer's part.

But [MENTION=126544]kapp_badbloodz[/MENTION] is right, there is no such thing as an (enforceable) contract that locks you into paying some undeterminable amount of money sometime in the future, at the whim of the dealer.

The contract has to be specific.

I agree to pay this amount of money for this specific thing for this amount of time with this added/subtracted from the vehicle. A deposit guarantees the buyer a spot for the next available model + specifics or a deposit is collateral to be seized in the event a buyer backs out of a specific vehicle ordered.

I would have been very very hesitant about signing a document that LOCKS ME IN to anything the dealer wants. What was described above sounds like "eh we couldn't find you what you wanted in what we believe is a reasonable amount of time so we ordered you a VW bug"...

OP... do you have copies of what you signed with verbiage you can redact PII from and we can read? Normally, you sign a deposit slip stating that states how much you paid toward a specific item (ie Red SR5 with black interior). They cannot deviate and deliver what you don't want. They cannot voluntarily alter what you want unless you waived that right in writing even then if they did do that there would be a shit storm from social media and fans of the brand.


Go back and get your money. Run away. I'm telling you. Go with someone else.

What was the timeline for this? When are they supposed to deliver? I'd call them every day and *****. This is exactly why I only buy or fork over money for shit I've seen in person (minus small things... sub 3k investments like gun/gun parts, car parts, etc). Everything north of that I need to see and inspect the goods... period.

 

[kapp_badbloodz]

that's if there is that option in the contract. know the car dealer lawyer, they probably still keep all his money even if they broke all the rules, that's why I never sign anything unless its a loan paperwork at the time of pickup.

****ing this. OP my heart goes out to you. Prepare to fight to get your monies back.


Brace yourself.jpg

 

[DesertCanyons]

Available today or not at all

Been reading up on your posts. I'm going to "let them keep looking and working with dealers" the sales rep told me today when I called that he will call me back within a few days with an update on what's going on.

When I was signing the purchase order and doing the deposit, we went over a 120 day policy that if they can't give me that particular car, they have to build one. Otherwise, there is a "no refund on of deposit" next to the $1000 dollar deposit number I gave them.

Obviously I don't want to wait four months for a car, but if that's what it takes to get a 2016, oh well. (I doubt it will take that long)

That being said, I don't know if I can just walk in and say "gimme my money back"

... Thank you all for your help.

[MENTION=124560]alext72888[/MENTION]
I think part of the problem is you paid a deposit before they had the car to sell you. They hadn't secured the car yet so they couldn't really enter into the deal in good faith. Buyer beware. Get the deal secured before making a deposit. Get the VIN # in writing and a promise to get the actual vehicle they based the price on before making a deposit or signing a contract. In your OP you said,

"I negotiated for a 2015 Toyota 4runner Trail Premium with KDSS and no other non standard options for 38500 and put down a deposit for this vehicle. They told me they will find one."

They potentially could hold your deposit for 120 days and then order a 2016 for you, for the agreed upon price. With a 12 week delivery time that could be 7 months before you get anything for your deposit. That's not really in their best interest but it would be much worse for you.

The 120 day time period only makes sense during the first half or 3/4 of the model year. The reality is, if they can't find the 2015 model today, they won't be able to find it in the foreseeable future. They have access to a list of every car currently being shipped, or due for delivery, to your area. The list is issued monthly for cars coming into their network and they have the option to "buy" or commit to sell any of those that are not already spoken for by other dealers. They can tell in a few minutes whether the 2015 model you agreed to buy is going to be available. That is, ever, this year, before the 2016 models begin production.

So ask them to do their homework now, this week. Ask them to search all the dealerships they are willing to trade with and search their list of incoming vehicles for the vehicle you want. Mention the list if you need to verify they have the list and let them know you know about it. Ask them when the list is issued for your area and when those cars are delivered. Ask to see the list with them on their computer screen. You can do all of this in a calm, professional, informed manner without putting them on the defensive.

If they find out the vehicle you agreed to is not available now, or within 30 days from the list, ask them to order a 2016 for the same price. Because if they can't find the 2015 vehicle now, it's not going to be available in the future. Ask them to make the deal happen now or refund your deposit. You can ask for your deposit back. If you don't ask for it, you can't get it. They aren't going to offer.

You always have the option to renegotiate another vehicle with more options for a fair price. You have the option to negotiate a 2016 model when they know what the MSRP is. Or you can both agree to tear up the agreement and wait for a firm deal on another vehicle. Make them feel like you want to do business with them, but you want a firm deal at a fair price for a vehicle they know they can sell you.

 

[philsey]

[MENTION=124560]alext72888[/MENTION]
I think part of the problem is you paid a deposit before they had the car to sell you. They hadn't secured the car yet so they couldn't really enter into the deal in good faith. Buyer beware. Get the deal secured before making a deposit. Get the VIN # in writing and a promise to get the actual vehicle they based the price on before making a deposit or signing a contract. In your OP you said,


They potentially could hold your deposit for 120 days and then order a 2016 for you, for the agreed upon price. With a 12 week delivery time that could be 7 months before you get anything for your deposit. That's not really in their best interest but it would be much worse for you.

The 120 day time period only makes sense during the first half or 3/4 of the model year. The reality is, if they can't find the 2015 model today, they won't be able to find it in the foreseeable future. They have access to a list of every car currently being shipped, or due for delivery, to your area. The list is issued monthly for cars coming into their network and they have the option to "buy" or commit to sell any of those that are not already spoken for by other dealers. They can tell in a few minutes whether the 2015 model you agreed to buy is going to be available. That is, ever, this year, before the 2016 models begin production.

So ask them to do their homework now, this week. Ask them to search all the dealerships they are willing to trade with and search their list of incoming vehicles for the vehicle you want. Mention the list if you need to verify they have the list and let them know you know about it. Ask them when the list is issued for your area and when those cars are delivered. Ask to see the list with them on their computer screen. You can do all of this in a calm, professional, informed manner without putting them on the defensive.

If they find out the vehicle you agreed to is not available now, or within 30 days from the list, ask them to order a 2016 for the same price. Because if they can't find the 2015 vehicle now, it's not going to be available in the future. Ask them to make the deal happen now or refund your deposit. You can ask for your deposit back. If you don't ask for it, you can't get it. They aren't going to offer.

You always have the option to renegotiate another vehicle with more options for a fair price. You have the option to negotiate a 2016 model when they know what the MSRP is. Or you can both agree to tear up the agreement and wait for a firm deal on another vehicle. Make them feel like you want to do business with them, but you want a firm deal at a fair price for a vehicle they know they can sell you.

^^ Good info. @OP Here's what I opine: - They are stalling you, and the purpose of that totally one-sided agreement you signed is to keep you hooked. The goal I see is to wear you down, keep you feeling trapped, until you relent to buying something they have or can get vs what you really want.

I have a really bad feeling about a dealer with these (obvious) tactics. Many states have XX days to back out of ANY contract. Me, I'd be inclined to spend an hour's worth on an attorney at this point. I cannot imagine ANY ongoing relationship with these shylocks would be good.

 

[alext72888]

Thank you everyone for the fantastic feed back. I love to hear your responses and wisdom as I have non when it comes to buying a car.

I also made the same post on reddit via the "ask a car sales" thread. Here is the link to the discussion if anyone wants to see.

https://www.reddit.com/r/askcarsale..._down_deposit_for_2015_model_now_dealer_says/

My plan going forward is just go give them some time. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and next week take action if things aren't moving along.

Thank you all again for your help.

 

[BobsTrail]

That's a nice approach. I would be more like a drawing I used to have at work that shows 2 buzzards sitting on a fence.

"Patience my ass, I'm going to kill something".


(Not suggesting any violence, just go back and get your money, they do not deserve to get any profit from a sale from you. Let a good dealer get that.)

_______________________________________

 

[Panzerpatty]

That's shady. I would bail and go to another dealership if possible.

They like to grab deposits without even an idea where to get your truck because then they have you on the hook and they can start to talk about other crap. "Have you ever considered a Camry? They are so cool!"

It happened to me a few months ago on my TEP. Twice I had to get a refund on my deposit and go elsewhere. However, everything worked out in the end so don't lose hope!

Toyota USA national would also prob be interested in your story. They take feedback very seriously.

I negotiated for a 2015 Toyota 4runner Trail Premium with KDSS and no other non standard options for 38500 and put down a deposit for this vehicle. They told me they will find one.

Now they are saying that the one they had an eye on has a deposit on it somewhere else, but there are other 2015 models with more options on it, which will be more expensive they say

another option they said would be for them to build me a new 2016 model with the options I want, which would also be more expensive. Their "well it has more resale value" advice doesn't apply because I plan on keeping this car for it's entire lifespan.

I'm kind of aggravated at the situation, and I signed an agreement with a deposit for the car I want at the price that was negotiated... but I understand if that car simply doesn't exist, I can't get it either way.

From this point, I feel like my options are:

1. Pay more for 2015 model with more options (that I don't want)
2. Pay more for a 2016 model

or

3. Figure out a negotiating tactic to get either option 1 or 2 at the price I already agreed on (best case scenario if I can't get the vehicle I want).

I know there is more pressure at the end of the month to make a sale, and I know they really don't want to let go of that deposit.

I'm in no rush to get this car so I can wait a month no problem. They said they will keep looking and call me back next week.

I haven't spoken to them about me knowing about the hold back of the vehicle so I can use this as a negotiation tactic.

Some other Ideas I have

1. Wait till end of the month
2. Threaten to write bad reviews everywhere if deal falls through OR write good reviews if they accept my deal
3. Something else I missed?


I could be wrong on most aspects but that's why I'm asking you guys! Thanks again.

 

[Jeremy556]

Unless you are placing an order to have one built (which you can't for 2015's any more).

You never could. Toyota doesn't take orders. Your dealer can request allocation from their distributor for what you want, or trade with other dealers.

 

[bythehour]

You never could. Toyota doesn't take orders. Your dealer can request allocation from their distributor for what you want, or trade with other dealers.

That depends on region. I was in a similar circumstance as the OP late last year (timing being the material difference). They took my deposit in early-october and then told me in mid-November that they couldn't find/trade the car I wanted. I said I can wait. So I did until the dealership got its next allocation of 4runner production at Tahara and they put in the specs I wanted. I got my truck exactly four months less two days from signing the contract.

Read the contract carefully - on the Canadian form, it says that if the vehicle specified is not delivered within 90 days of the contract date, either party has the option of cancelling it without penalty. If there are no more '15s to be had, the OP is just giving the dealer a free 90 day loan.

I'd ask to break the contract and get a refund. If the dealer balks, the them to give you a '16 for the same or better deal....

 

[Jernik]

Thank you everyone for the fantastic feed back. I love to hear your responses and wisdom as I have non when it comes to buying a car.

I also made the same post on reddit via the "ask a car sales" thread. Here is the link to the discussion if anyone wants to see.

https://www.reddit.com/r/askcarsale..._down_deposit_for_2015_model_now_dealer_says/

My plan going forward is just go give them some time. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and next week take action if things aren't moving along.

Thank you all again for your help.

Why are you not on Cars.com and/or checking the website of every Toyota dealer in the area to see if one is out there? IMO you are placing WAY too much trust in the dealer. At least get online and see if they're telling you the truth that there aren't any out there. Then, if you find they're being honest and there really isn't any available, at least you'll know that your wait will be longer for a 2016 - and you'll feel better knowing that they weren't lying to you.

If you find one (or three, four, whatever) you can call that dealer to make sure they still have it. Then, print it out (they usually have VIN#'s online) and have your dealer go get it for you. In this situation, you will then know this dealer cannot be trusted, and you should think and review very carefully anything you sign/agree to from here on out.

Good luck. I don't like the sound of how this is going down, but I do hope in the end you wind up with the 4Runner you want and a deal that doesn't make you resent it every time you look at it.

 

[alext72888]

Okay, so I wanted to post an update. I made a mistake, and at least I can have other readers learn from my mistake.

So they looked and looked around and couldn't get me the 4runner I wanted (2015 black TEP with kdss and NOTHING else) and they couldn't even find me one with a few other options or a little more.

Now the 2016's aren't released yet at all.

I went in to get my 1000 dollar deposit back, and they said I can't have it until 120 days goes by. I signed an agreement for a 2015 tep black with kdss and put down 1000 dollars and they can't find one. Here is what's on the back of the agreement

"If this order is for a new vehicle which you do not have in stock when the order is placed, and you are not able to provide it within 120 days of the specified delivery date, then I may cancel this order at any time after I give you 10 days notice (during which you may still deliver the vehicle). If I do cancel the order as above, I shall be entitled to the return of any deposit in cash which I have made"

I placed this order the 10th of Aug, so I'm not sure if I can cancel now since it hasn't been 10 days, or only November 10th I can cancel it then get my money back.

The PLUS side of getting my money back is that they will likely never find the specific model I want since the new 2015 model with the specific options and color I want (rare and end of the year)

The downside is I have to WAIT FOUR MONTHS.

I also really want to buy a new car, and I can't just go somewhere else and get one because of the off chance they DO find the car, and I will then have two cars I have to pay for....

 

[mtomaro]

I read it as you can submit your written notification at anytime (but preferably before November 1st) and get your deposit back on November 10th so long as they don't find one by then.

You could always just grow a pair and tell them to stop being dicks and give you your money back. Or try to find one yourself for that matter. I'd quit pu*syfootin around with them. Negative publicity is not worth the $1000 deposit to them.

 

[HerT4R]

Here is what's on the back of the agreement

"If this order is for a new vehicle which you (The dealer?) do not have in stock when the order is placed, and you (The dealer?) are not able to provide it within 120 days of the specified delivery date, then I (The buyer?) may cancel this order at any time after I (The buyer?) give you 10 days notice (during which you may still deliver the vehicle). If I do cancel the order as above, I shall be entitled to the return of any deposit in cash which I have made"

I placed this order the 10th of Aug

what was the "specified delivery date" listed on this form? Nov. 10th? Aug. 10th?

 

[alext72888]

what was the "specified delivery date" listed on this form? Nov. 10th? Aug. 10th?

"I", "me," "Consumer" and "Buyer" refer to the Purchaser. "You" "your" and "dealer" refer to the seller. That line is stated at the top of the page.


The delivery date was never set. The location. Of the vehicle was "LOC/TBA"

 

[CoastieRon]

[MENTION=124560]alext72888[/MENTION], I would give your 10 day notice as soon as possible, then collect on Nov 10 EDIT: After re-reading, you may only be able to collect as soon as Nov 20 (120 days go by, give notice, then have to wait 10 days).

You could always demand your money back, and even say you're taking this to the media (social/news) as [MENTION=120116]mtomaro[/MENTION] is right, $1000 isn't worth the bad publicity and the media is always looking for a juicy story.

Buying a car is very exciting, gets your adrenaline pumping, and sometimes good judgment goes out the window. In the future, as others have said, do not sign anything unless it's the paperwork you're signing to buy the car. Maybe even take someone with you to hold you accountable if you know you can be impulsive (I'm very impulsive).

There is one dealership here (Ourisman) who has two locations (Fairfax/Chantilly). I went to one location for lunch one day (Fairfax), test drove a few of their Trails, and started talking price but I had just started the search and didn't do my due diligence to commit to anything yet. They wanted to sign something to "hold the vehicle, hold the price we negotiated" but didn't need a deposit (they were VERY persistent about me signing this form). I didn't read it as thoroughly but I told them to go pound sand as the only thing I'm signing is when I know I'm walking out. Went to the other location (Chantilly) after work the next day, negotiated a better deal, didn't have to sign anything, they weren't pushy, we didn't agree on the price, walked out and the sales rep called me back a few days later caving in on the price point that I was good with, and I bought the car.

Good luck with your search, take this as a lesson learned, and post the pics of your 15 or 16 ride when you get it!

 

[Scott@Hightech]

I read it as you can submit your written notification at anytime (but preferably before November 1st) and get your deposit back on November 10th so long as they don't find one by then.

Or does it mean that he can give them a 10 day notice at any point and get his money back after that 10 day period if they don't find a truck?

Its worth having a lawyer take a look at it to see what your options are. And as someone else said go find the truck you want and then make the dealer get it for you, that's the easiest solution. worst case is you cancel the order and forfeit the 1k bucks.

 

[DesertCanyons]

Bait and switch or 120 days

Okay, so I wanted to post an update. ... Here is what's on the back of the agreement

"If this order is for a new vehicle which you do not have in stock when the order is placed, and you are not able to provide it within 120 days of the specified delivery date, then I may cancel this order at any time after I give you 10 days notice (during which you may still deliver the vehicle). If I do cancel the order as above, I shall be entitled to the return of any deposit in cash which I have made"
....

If you read my posts you know they can't find the vehicle you want. The TEP always comes with lots of extra accessories. The last of the 2015 are arriving this month (actual date may vary by location) so if they can't find it this week, they won't be able to get it. Toyota has supposedly already started building the first 2016 models, according to one dealer I spoke to this week.

Try searching for yourself on Cars.com, Edmunds or any other website that lists all the cars within, let's say, 500 miles. Look at any TEP in any color with the options you want - or without the accessories you don't want. See if any are available. Call any dealership that has the car you want and verify it's still available. If you do find one you want, go back to your dealer and tell him to try and get that T4R, but to get it on the lot this week, not in 120 days. Ask to view the list of all 4Runners being delivered this month and ask them which ones they can get for you. Ask them if Toyota is going to deliver more 4Runners next month or if this is the last shipment. Ask other dealers the same questions and compare answers.

Also go to the Toyota 4Runner "Build" page and see if the model you want is available. I see some colors are no longer available, according to Toyota.
Give them 10 days written notice today. Let the clock start ticking on them. There's also small claims court to get your money back. You'll have to show the dealer and any court that the 2015 you agreed to is no longer available and the 2016 model won't hit the showrooms until mid to late October.

I guess you realize now that it's your own fault for signing anything. The 120 day time limit should have been a red flag. The car they offered was not available. I think that's your out. And you can blame the dealer for not getting the vehicle when it was available.

 

[kapp_badbloodz]

It says if they cannot deliver said vehicle in 120 days; you may take tour money back at any time as long as you give written notice of 10 days time.

After the 10 days has past you may collect your money. Since they cannot forecast 120 days you are entitled to your money after the 10 days notice. Go get your money.

 

[Jernik]

I see two TEP w/KDSS in Black within 500 miles of Hartford. Better hurry!

2015 Toyota 4Runner Trail Premium, $41,165 - Cars.com

2015 Toyota 4Runner Trail Premium, $41,310 - Cars.com

 

[alext72888]

I see two TEP w/KDSS in Black within 500 miles of Hartford. Better hurry!

2015 Toyota 4Runner Trail Premium, $41,165 - Cars.com

2015 Toyota 4Runner Trail Premium, $41,310 - Cars.com

My dealer says the one in PA isn't in the system yet, so the cars.com website must be not up to date, and he IS however, waiting for the Atlantic toyota in MA to give him a call back on the availability the car. Hopefully they call back! Or maybe should I call that dealer directly and tell them to call my dealer?