Depression

[dapslappy]

vetted

I'm a little intrigued by the brain scan idea, I've read some recent studies on using it as a diagnostic technique but I am not aware of it really being vetted yet. Another issue may be my Asperger's as my brain is fundamentally wired differently than say a normal person's because Autistic Spectrum Disorders aren't just chemical imbalances.

It has been vetted. Very very vetted.
It is, in my opinion, the future of psychiatry. I believe it will become the primary tool in psychiatric diagnostics.
I, both sisters, both brother-in-laws, my niece, and a good family friend have been scanned. There were clearly issues with all of our brains except my sisters'. It has been a game changer for each of us. It is the cornerstone upon which our treatment has been built. By proper treatment I mean the correct meds in the correct combination in the correct doses. Again, my mind worked fine. I was able to think and reason and analyze. But my brain, the organ in my head, was malfunctioning.
Emotionally I was disconnected and flat, I was unable to concentrate and follow through, I was blah. It's not that I felt particularly sad, it's that I just didn't feel much at all. I was emotionally disconnected from myself and the people around me. I had (have) a mood disorder. I was depressed. Some things I did would provide a brief respite from the dullness, but it did not correct the fundamental flaw. One cannot force a vehicle with an empty tank to run through sheer willpower anymore than one can force oneself to feel happy through sheer willpower when clinically depressed.
I am not talking about yay!-everything-is-wonderful-i-am-filled-with-joy-all-the-time happy. I am talking about a normal degree of happiness, a normal degree of sadness, a normal emotional reaction to various events or thoughts.
Anyone reading this, please do not go off on a tangent regarding what is normal happiness, what is a normal emotional reaction. I am not addressing the philosophical meaning of happiness, I am talking about basic human emotions we all have. I am talking about clearly depressed people. I am using a common sense definition of happy and depressed. Clinically Depressed doesn't necessarily mean crying or feeling intensely sad. It can be a general listlessness, being emotionally disconnected, emotionally flat.
About 6 months after I was accurately diagnosed and started taking my daily cocktail of lamictal, wellbutrin and adderal, I had my first real cry in about 20 years. I had myself a good long sob with tears and all. I was feeling so so sad. The irony is that my feeling so sad was a good sign. It was a positive response to the treatment. The point is that I was FEELING. I am not artificially pumped up on happy pills. My brain chemistry is healthy now, so I actually feel happy, or pissed off, or anxious, or satisfied, or proud or whatever. My brain is working properly and I am able to engage in linear thoughts. I am able to maintain concentration on a task or idea. This is a huge difference from when I just could not do this no matter how hard I tried, no matter what I did. I am living a connected life, connected to people, connected to myself, connected to ideas, to feelings. Oh yeah, I started dreaming again. You know, REM sleep dreams. Basic normal human sleep dreams. This and the crying were the first two simple and clear manifestations of the constructive transformation I have experienced in the past 3 years.
Call the Amen Clinic. Get a scan. There is no reason not to do this because there is literally no downside. There is nothing but upside. Proper diagnosis = proper treatment = return to health.

 

[CXS]

Call the Amen Clinic. Get a scan. There is no reason not to do this because there is literally no downside. There is nothing but upside. Proper diagnosis = proper treatment = return to health.

There's your getaway, vacation, change of pace, etc all in one. Nothing to lose but so much to gain.

 

[Thai]

I'm a little intrigued by the brain scan idea

I am not a neuropsychiatrist, not a neurologist, and not a radiologist. But, i am in the medical field and practice evidence-based medicine (at least to the best of my ability).

SPECT scans are good for CNS (brain/neuro system) tumors, lymphoma, neuroblastoma, and seizures. Are there rare indications for other stuff? Maybe, but standard of care in using SPECT is for these indications.

Are there radiation concerns due to SPECT? Yes. How much? Probably close to a CT scan? Again, i am no expert in how much radiation you are exposed to.

BlackWorksInc, if you're elderly, then yeah, knock yourself out with these scans! Go for a scan buffet! My radialogist brother would appreciate your business!

However, if you're young, then i would encourage you to step back and consider the risks. Remember, in all likelihood (if you're young), this SPECT scan won't be your last x-ray in your life. For example, a person who gets a SPECT at age 25. 5 years later, he gets into a motor vehicle accident and gets a full body CT Scan (per ER protocol). More radiation. Later in life, this person broke a few bones...more x-rays...or develop a cough and need a chest x-ray. And then a few years later, this person needs some other x-rays done. You get my point. Radiation adds up in your body over your life.

I have yelled at frequent (dumb) ER patients about telling the truth when they visit or else they get x-ray'ed repeatedly. Over time, they will pay for it with their health/life. I have personally known more than a few of these type of patients who develop cancers (note: plural) as they get older. (Yes, i have been practicing medicine for a while.) Sure, these cancers could be from bad luck, genetics, or radiation exposure...or a little of all three.

Any young patient of mine will get the bare minimum radiation exposure...for their sake. I avoid CT scans unless they failed to respond to initial therapy or their symptoms are complex. And i explain the reason why i am going conservative on them. On elderly folks, i am more open because they will not live long enough to experience the potential harm from radiation.

You decide. Don't read any rinky-dink internet blog/profile/website. Ask a licensed medical person in the field who is not linked to the business that you are interested in. Again, i don't expect you to listen to me...see my disclaimer above...but FOR YOUR SAKE, be careful of what you read on the internet/forum/etc..

I cannot help you with your depression (thus, no comment until now) because it is way above my medical knowledge. But, GOOD LUCK and God speed in getting it worked out.

Happy Turkey Day next week with your father.:thumb3:

EDIT: one more thing...if you eat a balanced diet, then you probably do NOT need a multi-vitamin. I would get a Vit-D level checked because that is one vitamin that is a good one to take IF you are deficient (easy to check at any clinic via blood test).

 

[Pisa 8687]

I'm not entirely sure how to start this thread, this is one of many attempts to actually write up a thread like this (the last step of submitting it seems to prove the most difficult part.) Pretty much no one on this forum save for a couple of people who briefly spoke with me on a trail ride or meet, know me beyond my technical posts and attempts to help members with their vehicles. I'm not entirely sure how much I feel comfortable divulging, so here goes...

I have Severe Clinical Depression and Asperger's Syndrome.

I'm not a stranger to adversity, its been the staple of my life and it will continue to be until I die. I've always managed to somehow survive through most anything, but these past couple of years have hit me harder than most and have proven subsequently more difficult to recover from. It doesn't help that I've basically been beaten down and continued to be kicked while I'm down these past couple of years, for the most part I've just basically been more or less stagnant. I find it more and more difficult to find motivation in anything, honestly I genuinely feel like I have little will to continue living. Not to say I'm suicidal, but I just don't feel like I have the drive to keep trying to live my life if that makes any sense. I find my self more and more struggling with apathy to the point that it tamps out most any other emotion, I end up struggling to wake up in the morning vs. just remaining unconscious. I'm just at a point now where it honestly feels like I should just give up and accept that it'll always get worse and that's just how it is?

I'm not really looking for heartfelt sympathy, hugs, or anything like that to be honest with you; I'm just sort of curious how some of my fellow members continue to find the desire to live their life in the face of such hopelessness. I am sure there are others out there like me that struggle with Depression and other disorders and find themselves in the same difficulty I am in now; so I'm opening the floor to you... I'm not entirely sure what I am looking for in this thread, but maybe it'll at the very least help someone else out?

Hi I just found this thread and read it. You are on the right path my friend with acknowledging your feelings. I do not suffer form this but my youngest daughter feel the way you have been and I can say that all the advise you have been given here is great. I believe that the best is to find a relationship with The Lord God our savior. He is the way I make it thru the worry I have for my daughter. Find a great Bible teaching church. Don't just look for religion it's about knowing God and letting him work in your life. Also I pray everyday for you and all others who suffer from this.

 

[dapslappy]

radiation exposure

Go to the website. Amen Clinics | Brain Imaging, Therapy, and Treatments
Read about the process.
Read the FAQ. Frequently Asked Questions and Answers | Amen Clinics

A couple of relevant excerpts:

"We believe we are the best place in the world to have this study done, because we have a database of over 75,000 scans and have been doing this work for nearly 25 years."

"The typical effective dose of radiation from one SPECT scan (based on patient mass) is on the order or 250-300 mrem (millirem). Two of our SPECT scans are roughly equivalent to, or a bit less than, one CT scan of the abdomen or pelvis (about 0.7 to 1.0 rem, depending on protocol).

This amount of exposure is well below the cut-off level (10.0 rem) for any known potential or observable health risks. For more information on radiation you can visit the Health Physics Society website at www.hps.org"

 

[Thai]

Go to the website. Amen Clinics | Brain Imaging, Therapy, and Treatments
Read about the process.
Read the FAQ. Frequently Asked Questions and Answers | Amen Clinics

A couple of relevant excerpts:

"We believe we are the best place in the world to have this study done, because we have a database of over 75,000 scans and have been doing this work for nearly 25 years."

"The typical effective dose of radiation from one SPECT scan (based on patient mass) is on the order or 250-300 mrem (millirem). Two of our SPECT scans are roughly equivalent to, or a bit less than, one CT scan of the abdomen or pelvis (about 0.7 to 1.0 rem, depending on protocol).

This amount of exposure is well below the cut-off level (10.0 rem) for any known potential or observable health risks. For more information on radiation you can visit the Health Physics Society website at www.hps.org"

Sorry, getting "reliable" information from a website that sells you the very stuff that you're investigating ain't really good info.

dapslappy, honestly, how many SPECT have you had? How old are you?

Dental x-rays are safe too, right? That thing has very little radiation. Yet, Journal of Cancer in 4/2012:

"The researchers found that those diagnosed with meningiomas were more than twice as likely as the comparison group to report ever having had bitewing images taken.

And regardless of the age when the bitewings were taken, those who had them yearly or more frequently were at between 40 percent and 90 percent higher risk at all ages to be diagnosed with a brain tumor.

Panoramic X-rays taken at a young age, especially if done yearly or more often before age 10, also raised the risk of meningiomas by up to five times."
----------------------------------------------------------
A quick X-ray of your ankle bone won't expose you to as much radiation as the more involved imaging required to inspect your internal organs. A bone density scan produces a mere 10 mrem, while a colonography logs a whopping 10,000 mrem — enough to raise your cancer risk by 1%. But if there is a possibility you might have rectal cancer and your doctor recommends a colonography, it is probably worth the 10,000 mrem to have it checked out.
----------------------------------------------------------

Are you guys so sure that you won't need anymore heavy duty scans the rest of your life? How many of us have been in the ER? How many of us have been in a major motor vehicle accident? How many scans did the ER do on you while you're on the board?

Although each scan only has a small impact on a person's long term risk of cancer, that risk can build over time with more scans and more radiation exposure.

Again, if you're old, then go for it! If you're young, then is there any guarantee that you will never have several more CT scan/SPECT/x-ray in your life again? I would not bet on that. Needless to say, i decline dental x-rays...i get them every 4-5 years...but i do have good dental hygiene. Obviously, my dentist is unhappy because that is one way he makes money (of me). Sorry. My life i control.

I am not sure why dapslappy is pushing so much for the AMEN Clinic. AMEN Clinic practices outside the realm of evidence-based medicine and standard of care. It is considered Alternative Medicine, good or bad your call.

Last post...sorry for derailing this thread.

 

[BrianSD_42]

AMEN Clinic practices outside the realm of evidence-based medicine and standard of care.

Well I never heard of them until this thread but that doesn't mean anything.

One thing is for sure, they are not a non-profit and they definitely make money off each scan.

 

[02SE]

Sorry, getting "reliable" information from a website that sells you the very stuff that you're investigating ain't really good info.

dapslappy, honestly, how many SPECT have you had? How old are you?

Dental x-rays are safe too, right? That thing has very little radiation. Yet, Journal of Cancer in 4/2012:

"The researchers found that those diagnosed with meningiomas were more than twice as likely as the comparison group to report ever having had bitewing images taken.

And regardless of the age when the bitewings were taken, those who had them yearly or more frequently were at between 40 percent and 90 percent higher risk at all ages to be diagnosed with a brain tumor.

Panoramic X-rays taken at a young age, especially if done yearly or more often before age 10, also raised the risk of meningiomas by up to five times."
----------------------------------------------------------
A quick X-ray of your ankle bone won't expose you to as much radiation as the more involved imaging required to inspect your internal organs. A bone density scan produces a mere 10 mrem, while a colonography logs a whopping 10,000 mrem — enough to raise your cancer risk by 1%. But if there is a possibility you might have rectal cancer and your doctor recommends a colonography, it is probably worth the 10,000 mrem to have it checked out.
----------------------------------------------------------

Are you guys so sure that you won't need anymore heavy duty scans the rest of your life? How many of us have been in the ER? How many of us have been in a major motor vehicle accident? How many scans did the ER do on you while you're on the board?

Although each scan only has a small impact on a person's long term risk of cancer, that risk can build over time with more scans and more radiation exposure.

Again, if you're old, then go for it! If you're young, then is there any guarantee that you will never have several more CT scan/SPECT/x-ray in your life again? I would not bet on that. Needless to say, i decline dental x-rays...i get them every 4-5 years...but i do have good dental hygiene. Obviously, my dentist is unhappy because that is one way he makes money (of me). Sorry. My life i control.

I am not sure why dapslappy is pushing so much for the AMEN Clinic. AMEN Clinic practices outside the realm of evidence-based medicine and standard of care. It is considered Alternative Medicine, good or bad your call.

Last post...sorry for derailing this thread.

Thai, what is your professional opinion of the TSA body scanners at Airports?

I've heard so much conflicting data, that it's hard to know who to believe. I go through TSA checkpoints sometimes several times a week. So, due to the uncertainty of exactly how unhealthy those scanners may or may not be, I've been opting for the far more intrusive pat down.

Some of the agents at various Airports even know me by name at this point. Thankfully, none of them have asked me what I'm doing later. :hand:

 

[t4r4life]

Thai, what is your professional opinion of the TSA body scanners at Airports?

I've heard so much conflicting data, that it's hard to know who to believe. I go through TSA checkpoints sometimes several times a week. So, due to the uncertainty of exactly how unhealthy those scanners may or may not be, I've been opting for the far more intrusive pat down.

Some of the agents at various Airports even know me by name at this point. Thankfully, none of them have asked me what I'm doing later. :hand:

Im interested as well [MENTION=2]Thai[/MENTION]

 

[Thai]

Thai, what is your professional opinion of the TSA body scanners at Airports?

I've heard so much conflicting data, that it's hard to know who to believe. I go through TSA checkpoints sometimes several times a week. So, due to the uncertainty of exactly how unhealthy those scanners may or may not be, I've been opting for the far more intrusive pat down.

Some of the agents at various Airports even know me by name at this point. Thankfully, none of them have asked me what I'm doing later. :hand:

Im interested as well [MENTION=2]Thai[/MENTION]

I don't travel often...maybe once a year at most. TSA scanner has very low radiation, much much less than SPECT or even chest x-ray. So for me, i am OK with the TSA scanner, but again, i don't travel by plane much. (However, I think that the Europeans are against TSA scanner due to this risk.)

Now, in 02SE case, i would probably favor the pat down most of the time (if time is not an issue).

Again, the CUMULATIVE effect of radiation is more important than radiation per exposure. We have radiation all around us already. As a frequent flyer, you will be expose to tiny radiation from the TSA scanners...and then more radiation in the cabin. If you live in Denver, then that is more radiation to you guys being higher. And if you're ever in an accident, then more radiation. Young folks won't notice anything now or even in the next 15 years...but you may as you age into your "golden" years.

That's my point above. AMEN Clinic is bogus in their claims of low radiation. That may be true per exposure (compared to equivalent scans), but over the long life of a young individual (which is the population that AMEN is aiming for), these relatively high radiation exposures ADD up.

I am not only against AMEN recommendations to SPECT'ing everyone...i am against whole body CT scans that you see advertised. I am against ER or other doctors being so generous with doing CT scans to replace the art of medicine (aka. talking with patients and doing appropriate physical exam). (Note: i am not an old fart physician who is lecturing...i am currently practicing and *****ing!) Again, if you're an old fart, then i am OK with doing scans all day long. I am only talking about the young folks here.

Am i against what AMEN is saying? Of course...they are playing on patient's fear with false propaganda. None of dapslappy's medications (listed by him) are special nor are they aiming for a specific SPECT scan finding, per drug manufacturers themselves! Do they work? I am sure, as dapslappy can testify. But, do you have to go thru radiation to get them? No. Do you need a good psychiatrist? Of course.

YMMV.

 

[Greydog]

Hey guys, I'm certainly no expert on this topic, but thought I would post a few ideas that have helped me navigate through life in the recent past:

- Change your job. When it comes to work, its not just a matter of liking it, its a core need around security (paying bills, eating, modding the 4R, taking care of others, etc). Lots of employers and bosses know this and use it to their advantage/against employees. Don't let it kill your love of life, been there, done that, its sucked hugely...

- Seek help, but don't expect to get an expert. The medical community is great, but only you know you. Make your own path to health solutions that work.

- As a few other have said, write down your thoughts. It sounds kinda lame if you have not tried it, but its another tool you can use to get the stuff our of your head and look at it, figure out that it means, and how you can turn it into better ideas for you. Hey, we're guys afterall, who really wants to talk ALL the time? The goal being, identify what is working and also not working for you personally.

- Find the activities you enjoy, don't get lost in the activity of live (my mistake). You own your life, not ANYONE else... This may be exercise related, faith of some sort, get a dog, volunteer atleast once, etc. Anything counts here.

- On the faith topic, its like doctors, find one who resonates with you. They are somewhat different in their views and approaches. Just listen, let it work its way through you, see if it sticks, otherwise no biggie.

Anyways, just some ideas. What worked best for me was to not over-analyze it at first, just let it roll. you have to just wing it and give it a shot. You never know what is gonna happen, and that is an important part of life sometimes.

Take care and keep the ideas going on this thread !

 

[CXS]

Don't read any rinky-dink internet blog/profile/website.

but FOR YOUR SAKE, be careful of what you read on the internet/forum/etc..

Self-disqualifying statements.

Let's try to help this man without hijacking the thread.

 

[Thai]

Self-disqualifying statements.

Let's try to help this man without hijacking the thread.

I agree...thus, my multiple disclaimers:

I am not a neuropsychiatrist, not a neurologist, and not a radiologist.

I cannot help you with your depression (thus, no comment until now) because it is way above my medical knowledge. But, GOOD LUCK and God speed in getting it worked out.

He should take my advice and anyone else with a grain of salt. Like always, my advice is based on evidence...and i offered an evidence-based view on something that the original poster was seriously (?) considering. Was that wrong, CXS?

 

[Thai]

To the original poster who may be interested in SPECT/AMEN, you can read this. Here is an up to date review of SPECT and other scans in psychiatry: http://www.psych.upenn.edu/~mfarah/pdfs/diagnostic imaging psychiatry proofs - Farah Gillihan.pdf

Read pages 3-4. You can read the whole article too and come to your own conclusion.

In another article, there is this:

"Several years ago, following conversations with Dr. Amen on how to address such concerns, the Brain Imaging Council of the Society of Nuclear Medicine offered Dr. Amen the opportunity to submit his analyses of a blinded set of SPECT scans (to have been prepared by the Brain Imaging Council) to determine how effective his technique is at correctly diagnosing subjects. Although this proposed study could have provided support for his approach, the offer was declined."

 

[dapslappy]

Well I never heard of them until this thread but that doesn't mean anything.

One thing is for sure, they are not a non-profit and they definitely make money off each scan.

Yup. They buy equipment and pay rent and utility bills and employee salaries, including those of the support staff and staff psychiatrists. Others may consider this suspicious. I do not.

 

[zopperman]

To the original poster who may be interested in SPECT/AMEN, you can read this. Here is an up to date review of SPECT and other scans in psychiatry: http://www.psych.upenn.edu/~mfarah/pdfs/diagnostic imaging psychiatry proofs - Farah Gillihan.pdf

Read pages 3-4. You can read the whole article too and come to your own conclusion.

In another article, there is this:

"Several years ago, following conversations with Dr. Amen on how to address such concerns, the Brain Imaging Council of the Society of Nuclear Medicine offered Dr. Amen the opportunity to submit his analyses of a blinded set of SPECT scans (to have been prepared by the Brain Imaging Council) to determine how effective his technique is at correctly diagnosing subjects. Although this proposed study could have provided support for his approach, the offer was declined."

Hey! That's my school! I'm famous

/thread jack

 

[dapslappy]

I am not sure why dapslappy is pushing so much for the AMEN Clinic.

What I DO have is a deep desire to pay forward the gift which was bestowed upon me; the profound good fortune to be where I am today BECAUSE of the diagnostic accuracy provided by the SPECT Scan. I consider the nominal exposure to radiation far far far outweighed by the ACTUAL benefit provided by the SPECT Scan and its proper interpretation.
Nominal radiation exposure OR a lifetime of depression? I chose nominal exposure. I gained life. A real life. A connected life.
Amen Clinic. Amen Clinic. Amen Clinic. I will bang this drum loudly for all of my days. I would happily pay them twice as much. In simple economic terms, I believe one will receive greater utility per dollar spent at the Amen Clinic than for any other service or product, ever.
The Amen Clinic does not treat cancer. It does not do arthroscopic surgery. It does not treat kidney disease. It does ONE thing and ONE thing only. It does brain scans. Over 75,000 since 1989. They are THE experts. They are THE best at what they do.
My experience, my brother in law's experience, my other brother in law's experience, my niece's experience, and a good friend's experience have ALL resulted in accurate diagnoses and the correct combination of meds in the proper proportions. The Amen Clinic is BlackWorksInc's best resource to SIMPLY and ACCURATELY diagnose the cause of his malaise. Simply and Accurately.
THIS is why I am pushing so much for the Amen clinic.

 

[dapslappy]

It is considered Alternative Medicine.

Wrong

AMEN Clinic is bogus in their claims of low radiation.

Wrong

...AMEN recommendations to SPECT'ing everyone...

Wrong

Am i against what AMEN is saying? Of course...they are playing on patient's fear with false propaganda

Good Lord. Get a grip, you reactionary fear mongering hypocrite.

None of dapslappy's medications (listed by him) are special

Correct

Do they work? I am sure, as dapslappy can testify.

Because they are the correct Rx's in the correct combination at the correct doses…

do you have to go thru radiation to get them? No.

Yes, you do. If you want to avoid the trial and error method inherent in the clinical diagnosis model. The trial and error method I used with limited success for the past 20 years.
Yes you do, if you want to get an ACCURATE diagnosis thorough a SIMPLE procedure and be prescribed the correct meds in the correct combination in the correct doses.

Last post

HA!

 

[Thai]

Clinical data (or lack of) says otherwise. When given opportunity to prove himself, Dr. Amen bailed out. FACT. There is no evidence to back up his claims. FACT.

STOP being silly. If you have evidence, then feel free to show them.

 

[the great him]

is it just me or did this thread just turn into a pissing match? no i didnt read the posts but it looked to me like an argument in process -my ADD wouldnt let me read it... i had to say this before it left my head;

regarding the Amen clinic, i for one have been a patient of theirs, and was for many years. if not for them and Dr Amen who personally took time to look into my case hand help with me as well as a couple other Psychs, id probably be either locked up or dead by now...
when i was a teen i had ADD that was unreal along with some other issues -i forget the technical names or big words they used to diagnose/label it, but basically its was small scale neurological seizures that would just shut down my practical thinking and cause/effect, common sense ect part of my brain. it was like a light switch, it would come and go that fast. sometimes it would be little things that would trigger it, and i would go into crazy rages... sometimes it would be bigger more legitimate things but still my reactions were way out of control. i remember kicking down my parents door, throwing things through windows, kicking in fenders on my parents cars and being super self destructive, smashing my things, computers, toys, things i had worked all summer and save for months even years to buy and they would be destroyed in a matter of seconds. i when id come out of it id look at what i had done and just wish i could die, and i tried a couple of times... i was out of control, i didnt know what to do, my parents(God bless them) fought to keep me out of juvi(although i managed a few times to get in despite there attempts) it was bad, and sometimes i still have the self destructive part of me that comes out every now and again, but its nothing like it was back then.

what im getting at here is that this place works, and its not just for the crazy people either. hell it turned me around, and saved me from a life of misery and hard knocks. those guys know their stuff, and have access to some of the best resources and top doctors ect in the world and are leading edge experts on the brain and the way it works and how and why... yes a lot of this stuff is a chemical imbalance in the brain, but once corrected the brain and body can self-right itself. taking meds is not necessarily a forever commitment, i dont take meds anymore... i did for about 3-4 years, and really it only took about 12-28months of the right meds to straighten me out like a wire. i did a complete 180 with in about 6 months, i saw it, my friends(the few that stuck with me) saw it, my teachers saw it ect... im sure God had a lot to do with this as well. and i think had it not been for the Amen clinic(and God, but im not here to push God on anyone so if you believe great, if not. well thats up to you) i probably would have continued down that that path and either be locked up in jail or dead from snapping on the wrong person.

and for those of you who say, yeah well you probably just changed your situation and got away from your old life bla bla bla, yeah well yes and no, my family didnt have a lot of money to just up and move, so no i wasnt able to leave, until i got out of high school and done a few years of college, yeah i moved out and up to portland or from napa valley ca, but got into drinking and parting pretty regularly -wasnt uncommon for me to down a 5th of vodka a night and still be able to function -but without the rage and psychotic behavior. then i saw that i had nothing going for me, yeah i had some job working as a tech but i hated it, so i joined the army... this is where if the change had not truly worked we would have found out. but i keep my cool, and by then i had learn to just let things slide, and not get worked up over things. the Amen clinic did more then just medicate me, they taught me coping skills and other things that would help me through adversities in life. and here almost 15 years later i still use them. and in that time i have dealt with some pretty messed up things, had a girlfriend get an abortion without telling me about any of it, almost had my engagement ended a few times(thats more of me just being an ass though really -but i worked through it) had plenty of chit-heads for bosses, and had to work with some really effed up people and situations but yeah i have never really flipped out like that ever again. sure part of it could be that i have "grown up" but i think a lot of it is what i experienced while under the care of the Amen clinic. so in short, yes give them a try, it might not work for you -as they say, "results may very..." or something like that, but id be willing to bet they could help a lot more than they could hurt.

in closing i have found that my ADD is actually now more a help in life than a hindrance, in my job in the military i am more aware of my surroundings and things going on around me that guys who have been doing my job for over 10 years(im in field reconnaissance without getting to specific) and while working with the SO locally i have picked up on things the veteran deputies even miss out on or dont clue into. its not that they suck or cant do their job, its just that their brain isnt working the same way mine is or able to process as much information simultaneously like mine can. -but it can still slow me down if i dont watch it, as i too can get over loaded

end of speech