Discussion for those that wrench on other people's rigs

[mtbtim]

Hey Dudes,

Over the last 2 1/2 years, I've wrenched on a lot of people's rigs. For those that are familiar with the YouTube channel [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I started, we will do work for people for the low, low cost of lunch and beers if it means we get to make a new video to share with the world. When somebody hits me up for help for something that we've made a video of, my policy changes a little. If I know you and like you, I'll help you out for free. If I don't know you, I may turn you down or I might offer my services for a much lower rate than shops charge. What I've found with having this YouTube channel and being active on forums is I get hit up for help quite a bit. At first, I was helping pretty much everyone who contacted me but this led to me feeling burnt out because I was spending way too much of my free time wrenching.

Somebody on another forum recently hit me up for help with a rear axle seal job. I've now performed this repair around 9 times, 2 times to make videos, 1 time on my 98 3rd Gen and another 6 times for a bunch of other dudes. I decided that $200 was a very fair labor charge for my time, expertise and tools. The $200 includes renewing the rear brakes. Even though I'm very familiar with this repair, it still takes me on average 4-5 hours to complete because I'm not the fastest mechanic. When I offered this guy my services for $200, I got no reply. Did this guy really think I'm going to burn one of my days off wrenching on his vehicle for free? What this guy doesn't know is if I did this repair for him for a seriously reduced rate, and I like him, he'd be in the club and I'd probably do future work for him for free. Guys like [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION], [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION], [MENTION=169810]calnhob[/MENTION], [MENTION=144752]MarkamisPrime[/MENTION] and others know this about me.

What has been your guy's experience with doing wrenching for people? Overall, it's been a very positive experience for me and I've met some really cool people. But, there has been a few people that have left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Novashards]

Hey Dudes,

Over the last 2 1/2 years, I've wrenched on a lot of people's rigs. For those that are familiar with the YouTube channel [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I started, we will do work for people for the low, low cost of lunch and beers if it means we get to make a new video to share with the world. When somebody hits me up for help for something that we've made a video of, my policy changes a little. If I know you and like you, I'll help you out for free. If I don't know you, I may turn you down or I might offer my services for a much lower rate than shops charge. What I've found with having this YouTube channel and being active on forums is I get hit up for help quite a bit. At first, I was helping pretty much everyone who contacted me but this led to me feeling burnt out because I was spending way too much of my free time wrenching.

Somebody on another forum recently hit me up for help with a rear axle seal job. I've now performed this repair around 9 times, 2 times to make videos, 1 time on my 98 3rd Gen and another 6 times for a bunch of other dudes. I decided that $200 was a very fair labor charge for my time, expertise and tools. The $200 includes renewing the rear brakes. Even though I'm very familiar with this repair, it still takes me on average 4-5 hours to complete because I'm not the fastest mechanic. When I offered this guy my services for $200, I got no reply. Did this guy really think I'm going to burn one of my days off wrenching on his vehicle for free? What this guy doesn't know is if I did this repair for him for a seriously reduced rate, and I like him, he'd be in the club and I'd probably do future work for him for free. Guys like [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION], [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION], [MENTION=169810]calnhob[/MENTION], [MENTION=144752]MarkamisPrime[/MENTION] and others know this about me.

What has been your guy's experience with doing wrenching for people? Overall, it's been a very positive experience for me and I've met some really cool people. But, there has been a few people that have left a bad taste in my mouth.

My experience has been that most people will take as much as possible from you for as little as possible and then leave when asked to compensate fairly. You are wasting your time with these types of people anyway. They will never "pay it forward" and help others. I think your price was more than fair even without knowing about possible future benefits. Keep helping those that will let you and don't let the leeches depress you.

 

[thegipper]

Unfortunately, there will always be a few bad apples and the old saying "no good deed goes unpunished" often rings true.

Keep doing your thing Tim. The $200 you charge for the axle seal repair is beyond fair and no reasonable person would deny that.

I've been helping my friends, family and neighbors work on their cars for as long as I've turned a wrench myself. No bad experiences to date. I just make it clear, I will do my best to help you but I make no guarantees and in the event something happens, it is what it is (accept my help at your own risk essentially). Thankfully I've never had any issues.

My mom helps me out a lot watching my kids, especially this time of the year when I'm often up north hunting. She tries to pay me to change her oil and I of course, never accept a dime from her. I helped my neighbor completely redo his brakes on his Sequoia which turned out to be a nightmare (everything was frozen and he bought the wrong pads...lol). I gladly did this because he helped me a few times when I was swapping transmissions and when I had to swap engines. He doesn't know much about cars but often just having an extra hand is priceless.

Just make the "rules" clear when offering your help and if anyone gives you a hard time, tell em to pound sand.

Good luck

 

[spartacus]

You were trying to help him out and for cheapp.That guy should have jumped on the oppurtunity handed you the money and would have had the job done right. Forget that guy. I am sure most people understand that your time is worth money and not try and take advantage of you.Case and point I have a friend of mine that is certified suburu mechanic and works at their dealer ship has helped me out a lot but I always pay him when we are doing major jobs. He doesn't want the money but for me it is a way of telling him I appreciate his help and frendship and I value his times, also I don't want him to cringe when he gets a phone call from me.

 

[Soneill]

My experience has been that most people will take as much as possible from you for as little as possible and then leave when asked to compensate fairly. You are wasting your time with these types of people anyway. They will never "pay it forward" and help others. I think your price was more than fair even without knowing about possible future benefits. Keep helping those that will let you and don't let the leeches depress you.

I have to second this. As a mechanic I have alot of family and friends(and others) ask for help. But seem to want me to do it on my day off for nothing but their company. Just because I do it for a living doesn't mean I want to spend all my free time working on their stuff. Hell even my own(but I love it). I'm done with all their sob stories. We all deserve to be compensated for what we do, especially if I'm giving a bad ass discounted rate.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Don’t take it personally, such comes with the territory. The older the auto the worse the problems can be because, let’s face it, crap breaks, and the bigger the job the more likely such will happen. The worst customers are those who will call six months down the road and say you broke their car because now it isn’t running right.

I still help neighbors out, but some I have dropped some like 3rd period French. The amount of moochers out there is staggering. Ineptness can wear many hats as well. I have learned to lend a hand but never take the lead on a big repair due to varying degrees of the responsibilities of the job at hand.

And as a tool junkie, NEVER lend out tools that you can’t afford to watch grow legs and never return again.

 

[Hepar]

I think no matter what your expertise is, there will be those that try to get something for nothing. And that definitely includes friends and family. Those that are more than willing to help out at every available instance are are usually the ones that get stepped over.

My best personal example is a friend of mine who owned a small bar. When he did I would drop in occasionally for a drink and to mainly see how he was doing. He would sometimes not charge me for drinks, but it wasn't every time. I was more than happy when he would, but would never expect him to do so when I went in. I think that was a good way to go. Avoids many people coming in expecting something for free.

I wish you lived closer. I'd gladly pay for someone who knows what they're doing to help me with some more involved maintenance.

 

[97t4r81]

Keep your chin up Tim, that person passed on a great deal. I help out people with all kinds of work and charge different rates for different folks, but mostly for the satisfaction of helping them out. I'm careful what projects I take and from who,because of liability concerns. Can I wire/plumb/roof/your house ,yes, will I ,no. I always try to stop to help folks on the roadside.your videos are great, very detailed and informative ..

 

[TrexRunnerGirl]

Tim you and [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and the youtube stuff , and this forum, have helped me do alot of things I wouldn't have tried before. I appreciate guys and gals that can help someone out on the side.
I want someone to help me but I want to hover so I know what they are doing so I can learn and pay it forward some time. I'm such a noob at this learning is key.
And Tim...this balances out my truck...

 

[TonyB66]

Tim, we have had some PM's somewhat recently, and from someone who pounded himself in the ground to where I found myself in the back of an ambulance one morning, don't let your kindness and/or drive get the better of you. Given that it has gotten to the point that you recognize it, then talk about it, that's all you really need to know.

Not sure if you are married, have kids, but if anyone loves you in this world, depends upon you, and I imagine there are at least a few, take heed. Our bodies are constantly providing feedback, and it's just not aches and pains, something us older folks know.

Born and raised in Santa Clara, undergad and grad schools here in the Bay Area, now in Morgan Hill, it was mighty cool to learn that "Timmy the Toolman" is in San Jose. I'm generally a pretty handy guy and enjoy wrenching when I don't have other pressing priorities, which has been the case since I bought my 4Runner. To have someone knowledgeable on the 4Runner, and passionate about it, help physically with mods beyond already super helpful videos is amazing. Honestly though, being an empathetic guy, I decided against asking for your services. You seemed or seem like the type of person that might feel compelled to say "yes", likely with reservations though. Just didn't want to put you in that predicament... Not everyone is likely to think that way though, as some have commented.

When you read that I was on the brink of installing ITRs and other goodies, you commented that you didn't have such a video yet and that we can make it happen. Cool, finally a chance to meet Tim. Just doing the ITRs at your place, and then me the OTRs, LBJs and various bushings in my yard, didn't sound like effective use of time. You got that. We got it sorted-out as we each understood and appreciated the other's position.

If me, I'd draw a line as to how much I wrench on other people's rides. Every weekend, no. Every Saturday, no. Again, if me. First Sat every month, sure, minus vacation, travel and holidays that conflict. If you do indeed want to keep wrenching for others, I'd try to figure-out such a schedule, make it well-known, along with your pricing.

I was no "Timmy the Toolman" in the MINI community, but I had a decent following given some things I did to my car. The amount of PMs was just too much. The inbox always full. It consumed me. I had just gotten married and my wife was like WTF.

Find that space for you and loved ones, draw a circle around it and defend it like your life depends upon it. While that might be extreme, it might not be. Regardless, your health and happiness are dang important too.

So, that all said, still want to see me on Sat?

 

[Joelzy]

I used to help a friend on the side at his custom shop and he probably wasted more time bidding work than anything else. As soon as people saw the prices they went and got bids elsewhere from guys who weren't going to do it right. Always a little satisfying to show up on a weekend and one of the cars that he lost the bid on would be there so he could fix a botched "cheaper" job.

I've also helped out friends with illustrations, logos and photoshop before as they all know thats my day job but once i start noticing that i only hear from those people when they need something like that, i stop responding.

Hate that its like that but a lot of people are only out to get what's in it for them.

 

[96RedRunner]

Tim, You and infamous have paid it forward 100 fold to DIY'ers, since your asking if the price you quoted was fair shows your real good people. We all know it was damn fair and the job would have been done perfectly.
Have been in all the situations others have mentioned, no need to repeat them.
Think nomore about the fool that passed up a good deal, one born every day.

 

[phattyduck]

I specifically don't charge for any work I do with/for other people. My BIL's VW 1.8T timing belt? Buy the parts and we will do it together. MIL's old Mazda ignition system refresh? Pay for the parts and I'll do it next time I visit. Friend pulling a Subaru motor? I'll bring my own beer and have some fun getting dirty. Random dude on the internet needs help? Eh, sorry, I don't have time.

As soon as money is involved, it becomes a business and there can be expectations beyond what they should be. It should be an all-in or all-out thing - stay safely on the shore or go out past the breakers.

Don't feel bad saying no...

A good friend of mine has owned a Subaru shop for many years - it took him a while, but he did finally figure out that most of the new 'friends' he made after he opened it were just looking for cheap parts/labor. He was very sad when he figured it out, but he has bounced back now knowing who his real friends are - and charging the rest a rate closer to the going rate.

-Charlie

PS. Thanks for doing my rear axle seals! :wave:

 

[nevada]

I can understand, and appreciate you wanting to help people. that said, raise your prices, and you will attract a different type of person.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I really only work on family and close friend's vehicles. My neighbors know I work on cars but don't ask me to work on theirs, mostly because they see me doing insane things like pulling engines, hacking up frames, and ripping my engine to pieces lol. I've never asked for money though so that's unknown territory for me.

There are PLENTY of freeloaders in the world and just use their connections to get deals and free stuff. Once the free part ends, they end the friendship and move on to the next. Then they brag about it to their friends how they "know a guy who does this thing for me for free".

 

[Tyler James Inc]

I can understand, and appreciate you wanting to help people. that said, raise your prices, and you will attract a different type of person.

This.
From my experience- you'll get taken advantage of more than you'll be appreciated; the more generous you are, the more people will use and abuse you.
50% of shop rate is more than reasonable for a garage mechanic.

 

[mtbtim]

I specifically don't charge for any work I do with/for other people. My BIL's VW 1.8T timing belt? Buy the parts and we will do it together. MIL's old Mazda ignition system refresh? Pay for the parts and I'll do it next time I visit. Friend pulling a Subaru motor? I'll bring my own beer and have some fun getting dirty. Random dude on the internet needs help? Eh, sorry, I don't have time.

As soon as money is involved, it becomes a business and there can be expectations beyond what they should be. It should be an all-in or all-out thing - stay safely on the shore or go out past the breakers.

Don't feel bad saying no...

A good friend of mine has owned a Subaru shop for many years - it took him a while, but he did finally figure out that most of the new 'friends' he made after he opened it were just looking for cheap parts/labor. He was very sad when he figured it out, but he has bounced back now knowing who his real friends are - and charging the rest a rate closer to the going rate.

-Charlie

PS. Thanks for doing my rear axle seals! :wave:

After I started getting burnt out from wrenching too much, I told Sean I was going to pretty much turn people down if they were asking for help for something we've already made a video of unless they were friends of ours. But, after taking a break, I decided I would from time to time help people out for a very fair price. The reason why I wanted to still be open to helping random people is I feel I might be missing out on meeting somebody really cool. Some of the people I've helped out are now my friends.

[MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I pretty much fell into this gig of running a YouTube automotive channel and helping people with their rigs. Our time is best spent making new videos because that generates help for anyone with an internet connection. Helping out individual people and charging for my time feels odd but it's sort of necessary to filter out those that are just looking to take advantage of my generosity. So far, all the money generated has been put to good use like helping Sean purchase his remanufactured transmission and funding our parties. By the way, our next party is Nov 3rd.

Like I said, my experience has been overwhelmingly positive with the people I've met. I like to surround myself with generous, giving types of folks and I've met lots of very cool people through this forum and our channel.

Happy Wrenching Fellers and Gals!

p.s. Charlie, you should make our next party. I'll put you up for a night at my place if you make the drive.

 

[mtbtim]

Tim, we have had some PM's somewhat recently, and from someone who pounded himself in the ground to where I found myself in the back of an ambulance one morning, don't let your kindness and/or drive get the better of you. Given that it has gotten to the point that you recognize it, then talk about it, that's all you really need to know.

Not sure if you are married, have kids, but if anyone loves you in this world, depends upon you, and I imagine there are at least a few, take heed. Our bodies are constantly providing feedback, and it's just not aches and pains, something us older folks know.

Born and raised in Santa Clara, undergad and grad schools here in the Bay Area, now in Morgan Hill, it was mighty cool to learn that "Timmy the Toolman" is in San Jose. I'm generally a pretty handy guy and enjoy wrenching when I don't have other pressing priorities, which has been the case since I bought my 4Runner. To have someone knowledgeable on the 4Runner, and passionate about it, help physically with mods beyond already super helpful videos is amazing. Honestly though, being an empathetic guy, I decided against asking for your services. You seemed or seem like the type of person that might feel compelled to say "yes", likely with reservations though. Just didn't want to put you in that predicament... Not everyone is likely to think that way though, as some have commented.

When you read that I was on the brink of installing ITRs and other goodies, you commented that you didn't have such a video yet and that we can make it happen. Cool, finally a chance to meet Tim. Just doing the ITRs at your place, and then me the OTRs, LBJs and various bushings in my yard, didn't sound like effective use of time. You got that. We got it sorted-out as we each understood and appreciated the other's position.

If me, I'd draw a line as to how much I wrench on other people's rides. Every weekend, no. Every Saturday, no. Again, if me. First Sat every month, sure, minus vacation, travel and holidays that conflict. If you do indeed want to keep wrenching for others, I'd try to figure-out such a schedule, make it well-known, along with your pricing.

I was no "Timmy the Toolman" in the MINI community, but I had a decent following given some things I did to my car. The amount of PMs was just too much. The inbox always full. It consumed me. I had just gotten married and my wife was like WTF.

Find that space for you and loved ones, draw a circle around it and defend it like your life depends upon it. While that might be extreme, it might not be. Regardless, your health and happiness are dang important too.

So, that all said, still want to see me on Sat?

I think I have a pretty good balance in my life but my girlfriend does give me grief. She always says to me, "Truck, Trucks, Trucks, Trucks" because I put so much time into it and I talk about it a lot. Oh well, before this my life was Bicycles and Bicycle Racing. I need something that challenges me and gives me a sense of accomplishment. Also, it's a really cool feeling knowing Sean and I are helping out so many people. We get some really nice comments on our channel almost on a daily basis. We do make money from our channel but the real payment for the both of us is knowing we're empowering people to handle their own automotive work. Automotive work can be intimidating for a lot of people and I think our videos have shown people that they can absolutely tackle this sort of work if they are armed with the Right Information, the Right Tools and they have the Right Level of Patience.

Of course we're still on for Saturday. We'll shoot the video for the inner and outer tie rods and get your LCA and steering rack bushings renewed too. Sean's not available to film so I think you'll be the "Guest Wrencher" for the video and I'll be the cameraman. When it comes time for the bushings, I'll take the lead wrenching unless you really want to.

 

[T4topher]

After I started getting burnt out from wrenching too much, I told Sean I was going to pretty much turn people down if they were asking for help for something we've already made a video of unless they were friends of ours. But, after taking a break, I decided I would from time to time help people out for a very fair price. The reason why I wanted to still be open to helping random people is I feel I might be missing out on meeting somebody really cool. Some of the people I've helped out are now my friends.

[MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I pretty fell into this gig of running a YouTube automotive channel and helping people with their rigs. Our time is best spent making new videos because that generates help for anyone with an internet connection. Helping out individual people and charging for my time feels odd but it's sort of necessary to filter out those that are just looking to take advantage of my generosity. So far, all the money generated has been put to good use like helping Sean purchase his remanufactured transmission and funding our parties. By the way, our next party is Nov 3rd.

Like I said, my experience has been overwhelmingly positive with the people I've met. I like to surround myself with generous, giving types of folks and I've met lots of very cool people through this forum and our channel.

Happy Wrenching Fellers and Gals!

p.s. Charlie, you should make our next party. I'll put you up for a night at my place if you make the drive.

It would be one thing if there wasn’t only 24hours in each day.. everyone has jobs and only has a limited amount of free time, 200$ seems way more than fair to me. like you said it helps weed out the people that are just trying to take advantage. I signed up for your party btw, been watching your videos for a while.

 

[firemanj92]

Hey Dudes,

Over the last 2 1/2 years, I've wrenched on a lot of people's rigs. For those that are familiar with the YouTube channel [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I started, we will do work for people for the low, low cost of lunch and beers if it means we get to make a new video to share with the world. When somebody hits me up for help for something that we've made a video of, my policy changes a little. If I know you and like you, I'll help you out for free. If I don't know you, I may turn you down or I might offer my services for a much lower rate than shops charge. What I've found with having this YouTube channel and being active on forums is I get hit up for help quite a bit. At first, I was helping pretty much everyone who contacted me but this led to me feeling burnt out because I was spending way too much of my free time wrenching.

Somebody on another forum recently hit me up for help with a rear axle seal job. I've now performed this repair around 9 times, 2 times to make videos, 1 time on my 98 3rd Gen and another 6 times for a bunch of other dudes. I decided that $200 was a very fair labor charge for my time, expertise and tools. The $200 includes renewing the rear brakes. Even though I'm very familiar with this repair, it still takes me on average 4-5 hours to complete because I'm not the fastest mechanic. When I offered this guy my services for $200, I got no reply. Did this guy really think I'm going to burn one of my days off wrenching on his vehicle for free? What this guy doesn't know is if I did this repair for him for a seriously reduced rate, and I like him, he'd be in the club and I'd probably do future work for him for free. Guys like [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION], [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION], [MENTION=169810]calnhob[/MENTION], [MENTION=144752]MarkamisPrime[/MENTION] and others know this about me.

What has been your guy's experience with doing wrenching for people? Overall, it's been a very positive experience for me and I've met some really cool people. But, there has been a few people that have left a bad taste in my mouth.

Like a lot of folks on this forum, we support the work you guys have done/do. I think your request of $200 is more than fair. I only hope it covers both beer/food, tool money for the video's you have invested helping people. Several years ago I had the stealership do the same job at over 5 times that amount. Back to the point though, as you know the amount of people that want a lot for nothing. I'm trusting that there are fewer of those folks in the world than not, but they do leave a bitter after-taste.

Keep up the good work, helping others both here and at your day job because in the end "it's the right thing to do" and Karma knows!! :cheers: