Discussion for those that wrench on other people's rigs

[rkntoy]

This.
From my experience- you'll get taken advantage of more than you'll be appreciated; the more generous you are, the more people will use and abuse you.
50% of shop rate is more than reasonable for a garage mechanic.

Does this mean I can't abuse you anymore?

Someone else said something similar. There are givers and there are takers. The takers usually have limited understanding of what the costs are when they take something from someone else. Givers on the other hand understand the cost and are willing to either pay up or at least reciprocate.

Most givers need to understand when to say no - especially to takers. Thanks for all the videos. If you ever need my help, you got it.

 

[2ndhandyotaman]

I'm always picky about doing work for people that are "friends of friends" ( and those jobs are charged a very reasonably price). I don't mind helping a few friends that are great human beings, just not good mechanics and literally can't afford to have a shop do simple things like brakes or exhaust work. Those jobs are easy for me so I'll help and never ask for anything. My one friend wants to learn and help, which is great but it adds at least 150% more time to the job, lol.

Another buddy that I tried to help by doing brakes on his jeep TJ just wanted to question everything I was doing because he saw a YT video that did it differently...:der: and b*tched about the price of the parts list that I gave him to order from rock auto. Apparently after he got the parts a few days before I did the work, he called one of the big parts chains and priced out their private label sh*t quality parts. I tried to explain to him the difference in the quality but it was useless, he was an instant know-it-all after watching one video of a hack job. I won't ever do anything again for that guy, not worth the aggravation.

I can't imagine the extra effort that you go through to video the process of the jobs that you do. You have my respect for going through all of that.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

One thing I didn't see mentioned by others is the potential liability you incur when you spin wrenches for someone else for money.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think that if you accept money for a job, then if anything happens to the truck and causes an accident or worse, you may be liable, no matter what verbal agreements you made ahead of time. So I'd want to have insurance and/or an ironclad release form.

Again, I am not a lawyer, and for all I know, you could face similar liability if you do repairs for someone as a favor, but I expect you open yourself up to more risk by accepting payment, as now it becomes a business of sorts.

I know that the majority of people would never come after you if you make a mistake, but things change very quickly if you have a bad day and forget to fully tighten some critical nut which causes an accident or injury.

For that reason I've never done repairs for people for money, only as a favor.

I had a somewhat similar experience as you when I frequented the local junkyards and started taking "orders" from forum members for things they might need. I usually made a few bucks on each item, but really after all the hassle of making contacts, looking for the items, pulling them, packing and shipping, it made no sense. I don't need the money, and I was doing it for fun and to help out the community. But after countless cases of people who asked for something then never paid for it, or just disappeared, I stopped doing this. The only good thing to come out of the experience was that I came across some really cool people like [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION] and [MENTION=139000]phattyduck[/MENTION]. That definitely made it all worth it!

 

[TonyB66]

One thing I didn't see mentioned by others is the potential liability you incur when you spin wrenches for someone else for money.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think that if you accept money for a job, then if anything happens to the truck and causes an accident or worse, you may be liable, no matter what verbal agreements you made ahead of time. So I'd want to have insurance and/or an ironclad release form.

Again, I am not a lawyer, and for all I know, you could face similar liability if you do repairs for someone as a favor, but I expect you open yourself up to more risk by accepting payment, as now it becomes a business of sorts.

I know that the majority of people would never come after you if you make a mistake, but things change very quickly if you have a bad day and forget to fully tighten some critical nut which causes an accident or injury.

For that reason I've never done repairs for people for money, only as a favor.

I had a somewhat similar experience as you when I frequented the local junkyards and started taking "orders" from forum members for things they might need. I usually made a few bucks on each item, but really after all the hassle of making contacts, looking for the items, pulling them, packing and shipping, it made no sense. I don't need the money, and I was doing it for fun and to help out the community. But after countless cases of people who asked for something then never paid for it, or just disappeared, I stopped doing this. The only good thing to come out of the experience was that I came across some really cool people like [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION] and [MENTION=139000]phattyduck[/MENTION]. That definitely made it all worth it!

Leon, that is a valid concern and some research would seem prudent. I would guess that Tim has given this some thought. I imagine there are measures that he can take to prevent or limit such liability exposure. Possibly one, instead of payment for work or services rendered, he can ask for a donation to the party fund. I believe he provides all of the dead animals, related supplies and works the grill, among other expenses I'm sure...

 

[thezentree]

Tim I don't know that I would work on a stranger's rig for money at all unless I really needed to. I get that the income is helpful for "the cause" but like a couple of guys have already said it invites potentially unreasonable expectations and might be a serious liability. Then there's the whole thing about it being "work" instead of "fun" that you've touched on.

T4R member that needs a fix you haven't documented yet? Buddy needs a hand doing a timing belt? Sure.

Random dude on the internet who wants you to do 10hrs of work for pennies? HELL no.

 

[Scramble]

Is the $200 for one side or 2? :hippie:

 

[TonyB66]

I think I have a pretty good balance in my life but my girlfriend does give me grief. She always says to me, "Truck, Trucks, Trucks, Trucks" because I put so much time into it and I talk about it a lot. Oh well, before this my life was Bicycles and Bicycle Racing. I need something that challenges me and gives me a sense of accomplishment. Also, it's a really cool feeling knowing Sean and I are helping out so many people. We get some really nice comments on our channel almost on a daily basis. We do make money from our channel but the real payment for the both of us is knowing we're empowering people to handle their own automotive work. Automotive work can be intimidating for a lot of people and I think our videos have shown people that they can absolutely tackle this sort of work if they are armed with the Right Information, the Right Tools and they have the Right Level of Patience.

Of course we're still on for Saturday. We'll shoot the video for the inner and outer tie rods and get your LCA and steering rack bushings renewed too. Sean's not available to film so I think you'll be the "Guest Wrencher" for the video and I'll be the cameraman. When it comes time for the bushings, I'll take the lead wrenching unless you really want to.

The Camelback box is in the back of the 4Runner, along with a couple pairs of Nitrile gloves. Ready to help Tim. Even have my fabric roll-up creeper that I really like in the back...

 

[S1996R]

I did a lot of side jobs when I was a mechanic. I usually charged half of what the shop labor was. I also got burnt out, changed careers completely and got a government job. Still do some stuff for close friends that offroad, everyone else I give my opinion on what it could be and a reputable shop to take it to. I still have all my tools from when I was wrenching, comes in handy working on the t4r.

 

[snivilous]

I wrote a bunch of stuff, but I'll keep it short to what recently happened to me: What has really pushed me from helping people, is a few weeks ago I had some guys I know who I've gone camping with and offroading with plenty drive a few hours to come use my shop to install a long travel setup. Long story short, they ended up with the truck in my shop for 3 days and needing a lot of my help and every tool I own since it didn't bolt in like it should and needed a lot of additional fab work. These guys literally slept at my shop, used my electricity, plasma tips, welding gas, wire, etc. all weekend plus me helping them until late at night, and at the end of it all I got was a quick hand shake and "thanks" and they left. Somehow my band saw was broken and no one put it back together, stuff wasn't cleaned or put back, the towel hanger in the bathroom was broken off, spare fluids and grease was used, etc. and I didn't even get lunch out of it----from people who I thought were my friends. The whole thing really really disappointed me, and makes me never want to help anyone again--which is sad because younger me would've been the most grateful and happy person if someone did that for me, and I would try to pay them back as much as possible and would probably become good friends with them.

Somehow there's never anyone to help me or hang out and wrench when I need it, but everyone is available when they need help or want to hang out. So as time goes on I help people less and less, which sucks because I like helping people and wrenching with others, but until I find ONE person who doesn't try to use me, I'll just hang out with my puppy and tell people to go somewhere else for mechanic and fab work.

 

[spartacus]

I am not a lawyer but as i understand it. Anyone can sue anyone else for anything. if you work for free as a favor you are liable. if you ask for money for your time, tools garage etc you are liable. So basically it comes down to trusting the people who you are helping and doing the best you can and them understanding that. Heck you can sue your mom for moving a couch for her and hurting your back in the process and claiming she offered to pay you by making dinner which has monetary value and she knew that you are not a licenced mover. I for one do not want to go through life on egg shells thinking of liability. I like to believe that I can trust the circle of my friends and family and they can trust me to help them the best of my ability. que sera sera.

 

[mtbtim]

Is the $200 for one side or 2? :hippie:

Both sides including doing the brakes too.

 

[Scramble]

Both sides including doing the brakes too.

It'd be cheaper for me to drive across country to you than to bring it to my local dealer. :loco:

 

[calicojax]

I hope this doesn't hurt but, in my book, just because you are "very" handy with a wrench. Doesn't make you a "mechanic". A "mechanic" works on other people's crap for money. You seem to be a friend. A good dude helping other forum members learn to keep their own crap runnin! Besides I wouldn't rent my custom rear axle tool to a " stranger " for less than $200. Let alone do it all for him. F'n whiney b*tch*es. walk the plank! You and the fellas keep up the good work. And thanks for what you do!
SO SAYS "THE BLACK"! :bigok:

 

[mtbtim]

One thing I didn't see mentioned by others is the potential liability you incur when you spin wrenches for someone else for money.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think that if you accept money for a job, then if anything happens to the truck and causes an accident or worse, you may be liable, no matter what verbal agreements you made ahead of time. So I'd want to have insurance and/or an ironclad release form.

Again, I am not a lawyer, and for all I know, you could face similar liability if you do repairs for someone as a favor, but I expect you open yourself up to more risk by accepting payment, as now it becomes a business of sorts.

I know that the majority of people would never come after you if you make a mistake, but things change very quickly if you have a bad day and forget to fully tighten some critical nut which causes an accident or injury.

For that reason I've never done repairs for people for money, only as a favor.

I had a somewhat similar experience as you when I frequented the local junkyards and started taking "orders" from forum members for things they might need. I usually made a few bucks on each item, but really after all the hassle of making contacts, looking for the items, pulling them, packing and shipping, it made no sense. I don't need the money, and I was doing it for fun and to help out the community. But after countless cases of people who asked for something then never paid for it, or just disappeared, I stopped doing this. The only good thing to come out of the experience was that I came across some really cool people like [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION] and [MENTION=139000]phattyduck[/MENTION]. That definitely made it all worth it!

When Sean and I first got started, I was worried about the liability with working on people's rigs. I do call the $200 a donation for our party fund, but like somebody mentioned above, it doesn't matter if I charge or not. If somebody wants to sue me, they can. The safe way to go is to not do this YouTube gig and work on people's vehicles. But, I do enjoy helping people out so I'm rolling the dice people aren't going to try to take me to the cleaners. There really is a need to wrench on total strangers rigs because it gives us more to work with to make new videos. And, by willing to take a chance on a total stranger, we gain friends to hang out and go on wheeling trip with.

For the parties Sean and I throw, complete strangers are invited over to my house. It's a risk I'm taking, but I think it's worth it. We do have a litigious society so I should be more worried than I am. I guess if I ever get sued, that will be the day I quit, which will be a sad day.

 

[MarkamisPrime]

Sounds like we were all in the same boat with cheap whining customers at one point or another.
Where I’m at with it now, business is business and if you want me to do something for you with you just standing there watching, or just dropping off your car. your getting charged full price.
If you have no knowledge but willing to lend a hand, a discount is in order.
If you just need me to give you a hand and some insight than I’ll help you for some beers and conversation. I did this just recently with A A Ron idk his screen name but Timmy knows who I speak of.
Not to say that I haven’t helped others completely for free like [MENTION=94292]Patriot12[/MENTION]. He posted he needed help and was willing to drive 100+ miles to my garage. I of course assessed the situation and Paul seemed cool so we did his kdss lift and to this day we still keep in touch.
And this is also how I meet [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION]
And on the other hand both Tim, Sean and i have been used like a dirty dish rag by the same person on the same job BUT
The good outweighs the bad and we live to wrench another day.

 

[4Runner4Leon]

If somebody wants to sue me, they can. The safe way to go is to not do this YouTube gig and work on people's vehicles.

Folks are mixing "suing" and "liability". Anyone can sue anyone for anything, that is true. But that does not mean they have any grounds on which to win.

Liability means that there is a good chance that you'll lose the lawsuit - two different things.

I see a big difference between helping out a friend with his repairs and charging strangers for such repairs, while also running a money-making Youtube business using videos of these repairs. You're running a business, and I expect your exposure to be higher than if you truly were just doing this as a favor to friends.

Don't get me wrong, I love your videos and am extremely grateful for them. Which is why I'd hate to see you get hurt in the process of trying to help others. A Good Samaritan has some liability protection, but being a wrencher for folks, especially for a fee, negates that protection.

 

[mtbtim]

Folks are mixing "suing" and "liability". Anyone can sue anyone for anything, that is true. But that does not mean they have any grounds on which to win.

Liability means that there is a good chance that you'll lose the lawsuit - two different things.

I see a big difference between helping out a friend with his repairs and charging strangers for such repairs, while also running a money-making Youtube business using videos of these repairs. You're running a business, and I expect your exposure to be higher than if you truly were just doing this as a favor to friends.

Don't get me wrong, I love your videos and am extremely grateful for them. Which is why I'd hate to see you get hurt in the process of trying to help others. A Good Samaritan has some liability protection, but being a wrencher for folks, especially for a fee, negates that protection.

There's no doubt I'm taking a risk. Will I get burned trying to help people out? I hope not.

 

[draymondgreen69]

you're just way too nice. by taking the time to shoot and edit videos, you've already provided hundreds if not thousands of hours of free labor. people who document their work on forums and share graciously and generously are 1 in a million.

don't let people take advantage of you. you said you like making friends and meeting cool people but some people just aren't that cool. this guy sucks. i paid 320 for my rear axle seal i thought that was fair.

 

[smokeatrr]

Dont let a bad experience sour your opinion of people. This type of person is not someone you want to do work for and be glad he did not pay you.Two years from now he will want to sue you because there something else broken on his car. In the future just be clear about costs up front. It might be likely you made the repair look too easy and he felt he was not getting his moneys worth. I try to help others whenever I can and usually dont charge. Its amazing how people attitudes change when you ask for a few bucks.

 

[nchacon1984]

Like most have said, dont let one bad apple keep you from doing what you do. You and Sean have acquired a big following on here and on your channel. For $200, I wouldve made the long drive out to you in a heartbeat and made the most of the weekend afterwards before driving home. Looking forward to meeting you in November.