Discussion: how to make 4wd more reliable in the 5th gen

[nb rob]

I had a Nissan where you could clear codes and CEL by performing a rigamarole of tasks;
Turn key to "on" position, wait 5 seconds, push and release gas pedal 10 times within 10 seconds, wait 5 more seconds..,, etc. You could then retrieve codes through a series of flashes, and choose to clear them afterward

Is there a procedure for the 4Runner to do this as well? I've never seen it mentioned in this forum

In the Nissan, I had a scrap of paper with the instructions in the centre console. Sadly, I had to clear a lot of codes with that POS. I had a hell of a time with the evap system in that truck

 

[e60ral]

I had a Nissan where you could clear codes and CEL by performing a rigamarole of tasks;
Turn key to "on" position, wait 5 seconds, push and release gas pedal 10 times within 10 seconds, wait 5 more seconds..,, etc. You could then retrieve codes through a series of flashes, and choose to clear them afterward

Is there a procedure for the 4Runner to do this as well? I've never seen it mentioned in this forum

In the Nissan, I had a scrap of paper with the instructions in the centre console. Sadly, I had to clear a lot of codes with that POS. I had a hell of a time with the evap system in that truck

how old was the nissan? clearing OBDI codes was easier

 

[wfo9]

I had a Nissan where you could clear codes and CEL by performing a rigamarole of tasks;
Turn key to "on" position, wait 5 seconds, push and release gas pedal 10 times within 10 seconds, wait 5 more seconds..,, etc. You could then retrieve codes through a series of flashes, and choose to clear them afterward

Is there a procedure for the 4Runner to do this as well? I've never seen it mentioned in this forum

In the Nissan, I had a scrap of paper with the instructions in the centre console. Sadly, I had to clear a lot of codes with that POS. I had a hell of a time with the evap system in that truck

I've had many GM vehicles with secret diagnostic sequences that then expose a menu system on the driver information display.. It usually involves pushing two buttons while turning on the ignition. Some are really good and are full on code readers that even expose mfg specific codes... and scanners that let you display real time information. They also allow you to do re-learn for tire pressure sensors... and program special features like auto locking doors... Unfortunately.. Toyota does not provide anything like this.

 

[wfo9]

Supporting ^^^this with a true story:

Once upon a time an idiot was off-roading in the middle of the desert and got a CEL. 4wd was already and still on, but limp mode rendered the truck as good as a legless goat..

Normally he would call a tow truck.. but lack of road signs and 100+ ft dunes surrounding him proved this to be impractical..

Cursing his lack of electronic knowledge, he turned to his trusty $20 eBay OBD reader to clear the code, twice, and get himself and his $40k truck home

Did the idiot cause any more damage than what had already happened by doing what he did? He is yet to find out.. Given the circumstance, he knows he'd even press the big red 'void warranty and turn off all electronics' button had that been an option. Either way, the idiot is just glad he did one thing right by having that OBD reader at hand as a last resort..

THE END

Good story.. can you provide more details on what the code was that caused limp mode. Just curious how serious it needs to be to behave that way in 4wd...

 

[Leucifer]

Since in my experience most triggers of the check engine light are from intermittent issues my first course of action would be to take a code reader that is capable of clearing the DTC. If the issue is intermittent it may not ever happen again ( for example a bug or a piece of debris gets caught on the hotwire of your mass airflow sensor setting a trouble code) and clearing the DTC will get you home. Worst-case scenario you have to clear it a couple of times on your way out. I would like to revert to this strategy rather than hacking into the factory wiring and changing things that may cause significant other issues.

Paraphrasing for the sake of brevity.
This seems like a sensible compromise position. Would it be a pain to have to clear it multiple times? Yes. But as long as it can get me out of the poop and moving towards a definitive answer, I'd say this is a good intermediate step. It might not work for all... someone on an extended trip in a remote location (Alaska anyone?) might not find this suitable.

Again, it's a matter of ... what kind of user are we looking at? Soccer mom? Enthusiast doing short runs? Or someone trying to run the Dakar? lol

I will admit, that for the upper-end enthusiast... the situation probably leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Myself, I like SATSTRAIL's idea, and am going to investigate their suggestion for my own bit of "insurance policy".

EDIT: This thread has been a good read. Just want to thank those contributing experience and technical expertise for the educational value here.

 

[4RunnerAquasport]

^^^ Yes This, Thank You Gentlemen!

 

[fattire]

For those posting "buy a limited"...that *might* get you part of the way at best...

4HF (aka unlocked center diff) can still leave you with wheels spinning on both axles. It's effectively triple-open with a torque split of something like 40/60 front/rear.

4HL (locked center diff) gets you power to two wheels max; one front, one rear.

L4L (locked diff, low range) gets low range with two wheels spinning max.

We are at a distinct DIS-advantage here since the entire system is electronic with no way to do any sort of mechanical override. To put it another way, it's highly likely we will not be able to lock the center diff with a CEL/MIL.

Unless you've spent way too much fscking money like me and installed lockers, you're most likely SOL like anyone else.


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[Ray Dunakin]

Thanks very much for the helpful info! Please bear with me while I ask a possibly dumb question or two...

As someone who is not a mechanic and has never even seen an OBD reader, is there anything I need to know about using it? Also can anyone recommend a specific type/brand?

 

[Vinsil]

If you can check email on a smart phone Ray..you can use a obd2 code reader. It's a simple tool.

 

[borfoo3]

Good story.. can you provide more details on what the code was that caused limp mode. Just curious how serious it needs to be to behave that way in 4wd...

P2111 OBD-II Trouble Code: Throttle Actuator Control System - Stuck Open

 

[Salvo Jimmy]

Thanks very much for the helpful info! Please bear with me while I ask a possibly dumb question or two...

As someone who is not a mechanic and has never even seen an OBD reader, is there anything I need to know about using it? Also can anyone recommend a specific type/brand?

Quick look shows lots of OBD2 readers out there going for as low as about $15 to about $70.

I too would be interested in thoughts on a good cost effective one.

 

[1engineer]

Damn, just figured out what the title for this thread should be @wfo9, "Discussion How To Make Going OFF ROAD More Reliable 5th Gen." Sorry, tough week.

 

[willie2323]

Which proves my original point. Because there's little redundancy built into the average vehicle it's even more important to have well thought out failure modes. Simply shutting off unrelated systems leads to unnecessary and potentially dangerous loss of functionality.

And just a friendly observation - insulting my intelligence rather than focusing on the technical merit of my observation isn't very conducive to a friendly conversation.

Done with this thread, and now I miss my 3rd gen even more.

AMEN, especially on the 3rd gen!

 

[wfo9]

P2111 OBD-II Trouble Code: Throttle Actuator Control System - Stuck Open

OK, that one makes sense... I would expect limp mode with a throttle position sensor error. I would not expect limp mode with any of the very common intermittent codes like EVAP, cat efficiency....

 

[wfo9]

Quick look shows lots of OBD2 readers out there going for as low as about $15 to about $70.

I too would be interested in thoughts on a good cost effective one.

They are all very simple.... I personally like the wired ones that are also gauges for monitoring things like trans temp, coolant, fuel trims..... you can also display speed adjusted for tire size changes...

I have the ultragauge installed in my truck. I really like it and it was 79$ or so. Here is a link to when I installed it http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/209008-ultragauge.html

I checked their website and it is currently out of stock with no indication of when they will have them again... Odd

Scangauge is another similar product and may people have installed it in their 5th gens.

You can also do the bluetooth/wifi ones that work with phone apps. Just check amazon and search for "ELM327". Many people run the torque app, carista..... They do the same basic stuff, just have to fiddle with the phone and don't get the wired in behavior.

 

[Jhalko]

For those posting "buy a limited"...that *might* get you part of the way at best...

4HF (aka unlocked center diff) can still leave you with wheels spinning on both axles. It's effectively triple-open with a torque split of something like 40/60 front/rear.

4HL (locked center diff) gets you power to two wheels max; one front, one rear.

L4L (locked diff, low range) gets low range with two wheels spinning max.

We are at a distinct DIS-advantage here since the entire system is electronic with no way to do any sort of mechanical override. To put it another way, it's highly likely we will not be able to lock the center diff with a CEL/MIL.

Unless you've spent way too much fscking money like me and installed lockers, you're most likely SOL like anyone else.


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I should have used green font apparently. :beer:

Everyone knows a Limited would only be found at the mall anyway!

 

[changingtime]

For those posting "buy a limited"...that *might* get you part of the way at best...

4HF (aka unlocked center diff) can still leave you with wheels spinning on both axles. It's effectively triple-open with a torque split of something like 40/60 front/rear.

4HL (locked center diff) gets you power to two wheels max; one front, one rear.

L4L (locked diff, low range) gets low range with two wheels spinning max.

We are at a distinct DIS-advantage here since the entire system is electronic with no way to do any sort of mechanical override. To put it another way, it's highly likely we will not be able to lock the center diff with a CEL/MIL.

Unless you've spent way too much fscking money like me and installed lockers, you're most likely SOL like anyone else.


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So, the limited would go into a limp mode and the all time 4wd would go to 1 wheel drive. Seems odd...That the vehicle would be designed this way.


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[fattire]

I should have used green font apparently. :beer:

Everyone knows a Limited would only be found at the mall anyway!

LMAO!!! Totally green font!!

....but seriously....I can totally see one of the eleventy thousand newbs on here reading this thread, freaking out, and starting 100 useless threads on why the limited is "better".

See you at the mall [emoji41]


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[fattire]

So, the limited would go into a limp mode and the all time 4wd would go to 1 wheel drive. Seems odd...That the vehicle would be designed this way.


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The center diff in the limited is functionally no different from the front or rear diffs when it's not locked. It MUST allow for slip to account for the differing arcs the front and rear wheels take though a corner.

I'll state that I have not personally experienced the issue described here. However, going from H4F to H4L is exactly the same (functionally, not in implementation) as engaging 4WD on non-limited models. I'd expect Toyota would "protect" them in the same way.


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[Ron4RNevada]

Can anyone on here actually confirm that any code actually disables 4wd?

WHAT CODE? WHAT SENSOR? WHAT DID I MISS?

I do know that a code created by a wheel speed sensor can mess with anti lock brakes, downhill assist and traction control - BUT, until somebody shows me what code thrown by some sensor will actually disable the mechanical four wheel drive system - I don't believe it.