"Do I need an Auto tech... or a Priest?"

[bimrunner]

You have no idea as to what level of experience I may or may not be at right now! We have people here who have NEVER worked in the automobile industry 'at any time'... but that doesn't stop them from giving advice or sharing their ideas. "I don't give advice about things that I know nothing about, I leave that to those who may know more than I do; "trick is to know when to Shut-up!" Rgds

That's the point. I (probably more than me) don't know what it means, but i know what I think it implies. Not trying to disparage your talents, I'm sure you have far more experience than me, but it is confusing. You can put anything in your signature you like, but it may raise more questions than answers. I'll probably remember what it means from here on out but trying to help you avoid going through this line of questions in the future. I don't plan to go on and on about what you want your sig line to be, just trying to explain where I find my own confusion. What if you put an annotation to the cert announcement saying something about when you worked in auto? Context is everything! Makes things so much mo betta!

I still sincerely hope you get it resolved quickly and painlessly as I know from personal experience how frustrating strange sensor lights going off are!

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

Just an fyi, I started the Runner last week at around -10 F with no warnings (bit of a short term loud wind up noise tho). In the same temps, my old Subie had the brake warning light stay on (never happened before in 15 years of ownership). After some research, turns out that the main reason this happens is fluid condensing, causing it to drop slightly below normal, setting off the sensor. Are you low on brake fluid or is it compromised? Looks like you have 9k miles so it seems unlikely, but you never know. As others have stated, any malfunction with anything pertaining to the braking system will set off a bunch of warnings. Also, did you buy your 12' used or do you just not drive much - any links to your other issues?

Also forgot to mention, when any issue with the breaking system happens, it will normally set off the BRAKE light. The computer will then automatically disengage ABS (or sometimes pretend to), setting off that light also. One will usually lead to the other (at least, that what I get form the test vehicles) unless your parking brake is stuck on. Why your power steering light is on, I have no idea...but the one in my Pop's 07 GLI has been on for several years without any issue. That said I'm just waiting for the day the the steering goes FUBAR and I fly off the road, while getting blamed for breaking his "new" car.

 

[Ducmonsta]

Just curious, but why are you asking this on an internet forum when your sig says [Certifications: Auto electric, Auto a/c, Steering & suspension.]? Shouldn't someone with those certifications be able to diagnose the issue themselves? I know nothing about these certifications, so maybe they don't mean what I think they mean.

Are you trying to be funny... Hope so! I worked as an auto tech back in the 70's and the 80's but have since joined the steamfitters union as a Comm'l/Indus'l HVAC Building Trades Journeyman w/an electrical & controls specialty... "I have nothing to prove; I'm here to learn"... and to help others. PS: If you really wanted to know, you could have asked in a PM!

rigtec

Doubt he meant harm. Many of us probably were wondering. It makes more sense now. It's just that when we see stuff in a signature, we lack context so we fill in the blanks and sometimes are left scratching out heads. Hope you get it sorted out. Let us know what the outcome is.

You know...

You do what you can do to give back to others! I have been EXTREMELY Blessed with a long technical/trouble-shooting career, almost forty yrs (1976 until now). And I enjoy seeing younger folks grab hold of how to approach their technical problems. Now with a problem like I'm having, you really cannot guess at it... you need to have the right equipment. So I'm at a disadvantage at this point. I'll just take it in on monday and they'll tell me the story; but I know how to spot a bullshi**er's BS! Rgds

rig

You have no idea as to what level of experience I may or may not be at right now! We have people here who have NEVER worked in the automobile industry 'at any time'... but that doesn't stop them from giving advice or sharing their ideas. "I don't give advice about things that I know nothing about, I leave that to those who may know more than I do; "trick is to know when to Shut-up!" Rgds

Slow down, rigs. I'm certain no one meant any harm or doubts your skill or intelligent level. What I'm reading from their posts is that they are not familiar with what ASE certifications are or what they mean. As a forum community, we can all expect to get advice from a fellow enthusiast. And while that enthusiast may not have any certifications, the information he/she gives is taken that way. But, in your case, while you may intend no harm; the advice you give someone may be construed as "professional". I absolutely understand that you would never intentionally give incorrect information. But you're opinion may be taken as fact given your certifications.

In regards to ASE certifications, my opinion is that they are the equivalent to a G.E.D. That is not intended to demean or insult the qualifications that ASE gives anyone. But, with the resources and knowledge easily available to the general public, anyone can get certified. Heck, the knowledge I've read on these forums shows that. And I'm sure that a majority of the community is not certified, myself included. I am, however, very familiar with the most recent ASE tests that are given out as of 08/13. And they are about as simple as red is positive, black is negative. OK, maybe not that bad, but one would definitely know the difference between a tie rod end and a ball joint.

But the bottom line is, we all hope you get it checked out and it's nothing major. (My bet is cold weather affecting the nominal charge of your battery after sitting for 2 days. Your dealer will find codes, check the system, clear it and you'll be good to go).

 

[rigtec]

That's the point. I (probably more than me) don't know what it means, but i know what I think it implies. Not trying to disparage your talents, I'm sure you have far more experience than me, but it is confusing. You can put anything in your signature you like, but it may raise more questions than answers. I'll probably remember what it means from here on out but trying to help you avoid going through this line of questions in the future. I don't plan to go on and on about what you want your sig line to be, just trying to explain where I find my own confusion. What if you put an annotation to the cert announcement saying something about when you worked in auto? Context is everything! Makes things so much mo betta!

I still sincerely hope you get it resolved quickly and painlessly as I know from personal experience how frustrating strange sensor lights going off are!

This is not a resume (as if I were applying for a position), it is simply one of my areas of special achievement; which just shows that I have worked in the industry and have tested to be recognized by this organization as 'Competent'... nothing more. If I decide to post and offer my advice in a particular thread, there's a good chance that I may know something about that subject. I don't think that there are that many people here who have actually worked in the automobile industry, but I am aware that many have worked on their own vehicles and become very good at assessing/resolving their issues. This is where my years of working on cars and trucks (professionally) just MAY be an asset. Now, I've made my position abundantly clear in more than one post. I will not continue to answer questions on this subject because (1) It's starting to feel like I need to justify my experience here which I do not. And (2) This is not the place to ask about my personal life; this is the internet; you wouldn't appreciate it if I / anyone else does that to you... "Let's move on gentlemen!" Rgds

 

[harper7]

C'mon man! :bigok:
Here's a clue......I would highly suggest anybody doing extensive mods,especially electrical like you've done , to invest the 30 or so bucks in the OBD cable/Techstream so you can get the DTC codes when problems arise. Without any codes to work with they are just idiot lights your showing us..... ya,something is wrong. .I guarantee, if you take it to any mechanic worth his salt and the first thing he's going to do is plug into the OBD port to see what's going on and trouble shoot from there.

Your high output alternator modhttp://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/172070-4runner-alternator-upgrade-gen-5-a.html might not be playing nice with the CAN bus since the voltage regulator ties into the main ECU and thus the combination meter lights,AKA Dash lights.

As stated, all smoking guns point at a voltage problem and you have a super low mileage 4Runner with only electrical mods from what I remember and the only one to have something remotely like this happen? Didn't you have some weird starting problem awhile back too ?Who knows, maybe you did just get a lemon but those are some strange things going on!Never heard of a tach going crazy!

 

[gm350reratliff]

Your high output alternator modhttp://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/172070-4runner-alternator-upgrade-gen-5-a.html might not be playing nice with the CAN bus since the voltage regulator ties into the main ECU and thus the combination meter lights,AKA Dash lights.

As stated, all smoking guns point at a voltage problem and you have a super low mileage 4Runner with only electrical mods from what I remember and the only one to have something remotely like this happen? Didn't you have some weird starting problem awhile back too ?Who knows, maybe you did just get a lemon but those are some strange things going on!Never heard of a tach going crazy!

Rigtec, I forgot you had done this^^^^, harper7 may be on to something.

The other possibility is that, when the starter is cranking the engine over, the battery voltage is dropping too low. Basically, the starter is pulling so many amps, it is causing a voltage drop elsewhere in the vehicle which causes the sensors to report back a false signal the ECM cannot understand so it throws codes. Not sure if your mod will have any effect on this or not. Typically, it's more of an issue once temps drop below zero but depending on battery condition, it could happen any time. A lot fords are plagued with this problem.

 

[LandCruiser]

You need an Adeptus Mechanicus.

Your Machine Spirit is unhappy.

 

[Intruder]

You need an Adeptus Mechanicus.

Your Machine Spirit is unhappy.

I'd go with the Ordo Malleus myself.

 

[Intruder]

This is not the place to ask about my personal life; this is the internet; you wouldn't appreciate it if I / anyone else does that to you...

It's in your signature on a public forum for all to see. If you don't want anyone asking about it then remove it. Anyhow, now I understand thanks to [MENTION=68685]Ducmonsta[/MENTION]. Good luck sorting it out.

 

[rigtec]

Rigtec, I forgot you had done this^^^^, harper7 may be on to something.

The other possibility is that, when the starter is cranking the engine over, the battery voltage is dropping too low. Basically, the starter is pulling so many amps, it is causing a voltage drop elsewhere in the vehicle which causes the sensors to report back a false signal the ECM cannot understand so it throws codes. Not sure if your mod will have any effect on this or not. Typically, it's more of an issue once temps drop below zero but depending on battery condition, it could happen any time. A lot fords are plagued with this problem.

Hi gm,

What you and [MENTION=8206]harper7[/MENTION] have offered makes 'much sense'; particularly regarding the 'ECM misreads' and the recent cold snap here in NJ (temps 'suddenly' in the low 20's) and the truck 'sitting and unused' for several days at a time. I've had no starting troubles (other than a security system lock-out); which I've since learned how/why that occurred), but never any slow cranking or firing issues. I do really appreciate the thoughtful feed back. I'll reply back once I know for sure what's really going on! Rgds,

rigtec, cheers

 

[rigtec]

C'mon man! :bigok:
Here's a clue......I would highly suggest anybody doing extensive mods,especially electrical like you've done , to invest the 30 or so bucks in the OBD cable/Techstream so you can get the DTC codes when problems arise.

Hi harper,

I've actually never considered picking up a Techstream for myself until you suggested it; guess due to the fact that it had been a new vehicle w/o any issues... but now it does so I will look into that today and if at all possible, cancel my appointment w/ the dealership for Monday! Thanks for suggesting that!! Best to you!

EDIT: I just googled 'Techstream'; plenty of options to choose from. I'll have to research this tool to find out which one will allow me to do whatever I need to do to analyze/eradicate this problem. Thanks again!

 

[Ducmonsta]

Here's what I'm personally using. OBD II & CAN Professional Scan Tool

It doesn't allow for specific techstream programming such as auto headlight function, all door lock/unlock, and other Toyota specific parameters. However, it will check with all OBDII systems (which are in 1996 and newer vehicles). So you'll be able to scan your other vehicles, your friends, your neighbors, etc. As long as their vehicle is OBDII compliant.

This unit also will not scan body control modules, abs modules, and the sort. Just your ECM. But that's the module that communicates with most of our concerns to begin with.

I don't know if even the techstream will communicate with the BCM, abs, etc. Someone else who has an aftermarket one will have to chime in.

 

[rigtec]

"...This unit also will not scan body control modules, abs modules, and the sort. Just your ECM. But that's the module that communicates with most of our concerns to begin with. ...I don't know if even the techstream will communicate with the BCM, abs, etc. Someone else who has an aftermarket one will have to chime in.

Are you saying that the OBDII may not be useful with this 'Instrument cluster malfunction issue because it doesn't recognize any of the BCM(s) 'ABS, Trac'... that may be responsible for this issue or, are you saying that it will be helpful in spite of it's not being able to address the BCM(s)? Thanks for your input!

 

[Ducmonsta]

Are you saying that the OBDII may not be useful with this 'Instrument cluster malfunction issue because it doesn't recognize any of the BCM(s) 'ABS, Trac'... that may be responsible for this issue or, are you saying that it will be helpful in spite of it's not being able to address the BCM(s)? Thanks for your input!

That's difficult to say. ECM codes that usually set off the check engine light also happen to cause the other lights to come on. There's a good possibility that there are codes stored in the ECM. So this unit WILL allow you to read and clear those codes. However, if it is more complicated and within the BCM then it will not.

I would also wait for someone who has experience with the aftermarket Techstream program to chime in. Because I don't think that the ones available to the masses have that kind of capability also. As far as I know, only dealers and independent shops that have invested the thousands of dollars in the Toyota Techstream software have access to the inner workings of the Toyota programming.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. The $30 cable and CD that's available to the public only allows for working with the ECM and controlling adjustable functions as I mentioned earlier.

 

[philsey]

Rig, I think who you need to hear from on this is [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]

 

[rigtec]

Hey [MENTION=68685]Ducmonsta[/MENTION],

I just saw this tool on amazon, take a look: Amazon.com: INNOVA 3100 Diagnostic Scan Tool/Code Reader with ABS and Battery Backup for OBD2 Vehicles: Automotive Claims to recognize ABS in addition to the other ECM protocol... What do you think? I just may order it tonight.

 

[Ducmonsta]

Hey [MENTION=68685]Ducmonsta[/MENTION],

I just saw this tool on amazon, take a look: Amazon.com: INNOVA 3100 Diagnostic Scan Tool/Code Reader with ABS and Battery Backup for OBD2 Vehicles: Automotive Claims to recognize ABS in addition to the other ECM protocol... What do you think? I just may order it tonight.

There are a lot of similar tools available. I think its a good investment no matter the outcome of your situation. Mine reads ABS codes too. It just depends on the make and model of vehicle. They shouldn't make a blanket statement like that.

 

[Jeremy556]

Go to ebay and search for "techstream." It will come up with a bunch of people selling a cable with a USB connector one end and an OBD2 connector on the other. They are generally about $30 or so. It will come with a pirated copy of the Techstream software. You'll want a Windows XP laptop to install it on (64 bit drivers are problematic).

With that combination, you'll have access to everything that a Toyota dealer tech does, except for ECU flashing, and sometimes slow or momentarily interrupted data streams when viewing/recording real time data.

You can get data from every module, reprogram optional features, reprogram TPMS, clear stored codes, etc. It is many times more functional than any generic OBD2 tool, even the real expensive ones. The next step up in functionality from this is to purchase a Mongoose cable for $500, which will allow you to do ECU flashing.

Here are a few screenshots I have grabbed for various threads...

 

[AudiTech]

I would start with the basics, see what faults are in it and test the battery and charging systems, ad test voltage drop across the main power and grounds to the battery and do a capacitive discharge (unhook both battery cables from the battery and the hold the 2 terminal ends together for a few seconds), you'd be amazed by some of the electrical gremlins in the VW/Audi world that that fixes. Since the issues seems to only be in the cluster I'd be looking at a wiring digragm for common circuits between the things freaking out. Verify the power and ground to te cluster is good through voltage drops (voltage drop will tell you a lot more than voltage and resistance measurements.

Semi related but I've seen coolant migration cause similar issues on a VW. Coolant wicked it's way through the leel sensor in the bottle and migrated all the way into the cluster.

 

[Ducmonsta]

Go to ebay and search for "techstream." It will come up with a bunch of people selling a cable with a USB connector one end and an OBD2 connector on the other. They are generally about $30 or so. It will come with a pirated copy of the Techstream software. You'll want a Windows XP laptop to install it on (64 bit drivers are problematic).

With that combination, you'll have access to everything that a Toyota dealer tech does, except for ECU flashing, and sometimes slow or momentarily interrupted data streams when viewing/recording real time data.

You can get data from every module, reprogram optional features, reprogram TPMS, clear stored codes, etc. It is many times more functional than any generic OBD2 tool, even the real expensive ones. The next step up in functionality from this is to purchase a Mongoose cable for $500, which will allow you to do ECU flashing.

Awesome! That's the information we needed. Looks to be a dangerous tool in the wrong hands.