Do spacers negatively effect off road performance?

K

kkz

New member
With xreas. Did a search already, and I'm curious. I'm referring more so towards the higher speed stuff and not crawling . What are your opinions/experiences?

I ask this because I haven't tried going off road without the spacers, and the other week there was this Honda Element that I just could not for the life of me keep up with. The suspension right now feels so stiff that it just doesn't feel safe going any faster than 20 mph on this relatively smooth trail that I practice on. Every bump I go over seems like I'll break something, so I slow down and roll over the bumps I see are needed to. This is rather embarrassing when an Element glides right over those same bumps and keeps on picking up speed. There was also a stock-looking FJC that was smashing down this same road like he was on an ATV. Is it the area I'm practicing on that's too bumpy? Am I being too scared and underestimating how much of a beating the 4R can take? I can upload a video if anyone is curious what this road looks like.

Well it finally finished uploading, here's some 1080p footage for your viewing pleasure. Please excuse the strange POV, I get easy access to the record button from there and the cam is further away from the danger zone. Now then, proceed with your laughter at how bad my driving is.

Would be a great idea to mute your speakers

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_DpN7BLH5g8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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kkz said:
With xreas. Did a search already, and I'm curious. I'm referring more so towards the higher speed stuff and not crawling . What are your opinions/experiences?

I ask this because I haven't tried going off road without the spacers, and the other week there was this Honda Element that I just could not for the life of me keep up with. The suspension right now feels so stiff that it just doesn't feel safe going any faster than 20 mph on this relatively smooth trail that I practice on. Every bump I go over seems like I'll break something, so I slow down and roll over the bumps I see are needed to. This is rather embarrassing when an Element glides right over those same bumps and keeps on picking up speed. There was also a stock-looking FJC that was smashing down this same road like he was on an ATV. Is it the area I'm practicing on that's too bumpy? Am I being too scared and underestimating how much of a beating the 4R can take? I can upload a video if anyone is curious what this road looks like.
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Seems to me you're babying it a little bit. Those are jumps, not bumps! :bluejump:

You can handle it!
 
Yea like the other poster said you can take it a good bit faster than you are. The only place i see an issue is if you try to slow down on a washboard type spot. On my 4runner even on railroad tracks if i try to stop when i go over them i have almost no braking ability. The antilock brakes keep releasing them until im on consistant ground again. A few of those curves look a little close to the edge of a dropoff though so i wouldnt get too excited flying around those.

I wish i could find something like that around here.
 
To be clear, you ARE talking about a spacer lift not wheel spacers correct?

I'm no expert at these things, I'm sure somebody whose well versed in this like Ark Swamp Rider can give you a definitive answer, but IMO, spacers in your suspension will have an affect (albeit small) on the rate in which your suspension compresses and rebounds over obstacles at speed. That's why the guys who do this type driving have suspensions tuned for it.

Now as for being outperformed by an Element, that is pretty embarrassing and unexplainable. You might want to try to remove your spacers and run it, or ride in a stock 4Runner, if you can, to feel the difference. Maybe even ride with the dude in the FJ to see what it feels like, since the suspension setups are practically identical.

Good Luck!
 
Short answer is yes, lifts in general can cause performance to suffer.

In the rear, the shocks limit downtravel. Add a spacer that's 2" thick, you now have 2" less down travel. This is where longer shocks such as 5100s come in to play. A lift in the rear without changing shocks can havean impact.

The front is a little more complicated because down travel is limited by the other suspension components, not just the shocks. Install a lift and you now have decreased your downtravel. This is a big reason 3" lift is considered the limit. Any more, you start noticeably loosing down travel. In order to get more travel, something like the total chaos long travel kits are needed. This is why long travel setups are so popular for the guys doing high speed desert runs, it works much better than just basic lifts.

That said, aftermarket shocks/coils can do a better job than stock in this type of terrain (better valving, more beefy components, and different coil rates), that's one area I feel like the OW coil overs are noticeably better than the 5100s/OMEs I had previously. There's a lot that you can do without going with the full long travel kit, just depends on your goals.

I think the major limitation here is down travel. However I have no clue why the other vehicles are so much better, so a lot could be in the driver.
 
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kkz said:
With xreas. Did a search already, and I'm curious. I'm referring more so towards the higher speed stuff and not crawling . What are your opinions/experiences?
Click to expand...

Wow! That hurt my eyes... That is the speed I would drive my RX7 on that trail. ;)

I have Xreas with a spacer lift and wheel spacers and would have driven 3 to 4 times as fast down that trail and not worried a bit. Have faith in these rigs, they are tougher than you think.
 
I bet it would be more comfortable to run that trail faster. The stock suspension in our trucks is already off road biased, which is why hitting pot holes, train tracks, bumps, etc. is less bouncy at higher speed
 
emelianenkov said:
Seems to me you're babying it a little bit. Those are jumps, not bumps! :bluejump:

You can handle it!
Click to expand...

LOL. There's a difference between use & abuse, and I can see why they would want advice.

It's not a racecourse - I would go whatever speed you feel comfortable with.

Edit - I do understand the original question . .
 
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NJshadow93 said:
I bet it would be more comfortable to run that trail faster. The stock suspension in our trucks is already off road biased, which is why hitting pot holes, train tracks, bumps, etc. is less bouncy at higher speed
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Amen. Try get up to 30-40 mph and you will find the bumps smooths out. Of course go at speeds you are comfortable with.
 
Yea. You were going so slow that every bump felt like a crevasse.

Speed up, and it will smooth out.
Also. Don't fear jitters and shock movement. It is gonna be bouncy.
 
haha - besides the big ruts, that dirt road looks like some of the "paved roads" I drive in around Pittsburgh in the Spring after the winter freeze & potholes...

On another note, I was enjoying the ride! I liked the POV you created there. I wish I/we had more roads/places to go arounds Western PA. (If anyone knows where I can go that's not a "dune buggy" or "local red-necks only" type place, I'd love to go!)

I gotta little lift/Bilsteins, so I'm ready and willing!
 
I thought you said off road? Did I miss the mud pit somewhere? That looks more like my driveway than off road. :biggrin2::biggrin2:
 
Guys, that was exactly what I was getting at. I know how smooth it is, but anytime I try and go any faster, the steering gets really difficult to manage, and it feels like the 4r is bouncing from side to side, also sounds like clash of the metal titans in the back
 
kkz said:
there was this Honda Element that I just could not for the life of me keep up with. There was also a stock-looking FJC that was smashing down this same road like he was on an ATV.
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They may have been aired down. Try reducing pressure to about 20psi next time. Bet you'll feel like going faster.
 
kkz said:
Guys, that was exactly what I was getting at. I know how smooth it is, but anytime I try and go any faster, the steering gets really difficult to manage, and it feels like the 4r is bouncing from side to side, also sounds like clash of the metal titans in the back
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Now we need to know what type of suspension mods have or haven't been done. Did you do them? Were they done right? Is there anything in your rear bins that isn't tied down? What type of tires and are they over-inflated(not that road would need airing down for, but too much could cause wash out)? Is there anything loose on the rear suspension. How is your alignment?

Your rig should handle that road with no problems stock. And your spacers shouldn't have any negative effect at all.
 
Krazynative said:
Now we need to know what type of suspension mods have or haven't been done. Did you do them? Were they done right? Is there anything in your rear bins that isn't tied down? What type of tires and are they over-inflated(not that road would need airing down for, but too much could cause wash out)? Is there anything loose on the rear suspension. How is your alignment?

Your rig should handle that road with no problems stock. And your spacers shouldn't have any negative effect at all.
Click to expand...

Just the Daystar 2.5/1.5, yes it was done right. Trunk is completely empty, jack is in place correctly. Duratracs 265/70/17, did a few passes aired up and down, almost the same on that smooth road. Alignment, as far as on-road goes, seems good, tracks nice and straight.

I put my homework on hold for a bit and went for some more runs, this time I did as everyone said and kicked it up to 30-40 ish most of the time. Still felt terrible, still felt like I was purposely hurting the thing, still wasn't very controllable. Even worse, on the way out there was a Jeep Liberty that came up behind me so I pulled to one side when I had the chance to let him pass, so I can see if I can keep up, it just didn't happen. It was like I was going against a rally driver, he was hauling. And now I've got some squeaks and occasional sounds of what seems like metal smashing against eachother.
 
stanleybb50 said:
Is your xreas worn out? Just seems so odd...
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Well the odo reads 65k with these tires, so I'm guessing slightly less than that. So they are a bit old, but not extremely worn.

Looks like they're functioning correctly to me, but I'm no expert.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/i132g9U20n4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here's another for you Stanley, since you enjoyed the first

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LKj1zHtv7h4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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This is starting to remind me of a recent thread that I posted in:

Link

You guys got the same set-up (X-REAS with DS Spacers) and apparently the same issue (Loose rear end).

Unfortunately the OP has not replied as to whether he was able to get this resolved yet, but reading through it might give you some ideas.

I'll tell you now, I've got a DS lift and it's been great to me, but I do not have an X-REAS suspension.

Good luck bud!
 
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