Does Any California Bay Area Member Need a Rear Axle Seal Repair?

[rubymac]

Ruby, if you want to learn about maintaining and fixing your own rig, I think that's awesome. PM me to your hearts content and I'll help you to the best of my ability.

Here's a link to the YouTube channel [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] (aka Sean) and I started together. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9EMiD9KPy61kJ6hdXcbjxA
There's lots of helpful videos for 3rd Gen owners. Maybe start with the "30,000 Mile Service" video. Knowing how to change all your fluids, inspect your brakes and replace an air filter is important Maintenance 101 info.

Do Not rely on the fact the previous owner took good care of it. I recently rebooted cv axles for another member and he literally only had a 1/2 cup of gear oil in his front differential and he had owned the truck for 2 years and had been recently wheeling it. He admitted he had never checked the differential gear oil. Big mistake.

So, I suggest you start fresh by renewing all your fluids if you haven't already. Renew your engine oil, engine coolant, transmission fluid, transfer case gear oil, and both differential gear oils. Replace your air filter if it needs it. If you have a lot of miles, consider replacing the fuel filter. Check the spark plugs and see how they're looking. If they're worn, replace them and possibly the wires too. I could go on and on so just make sure all your fluids are good for now.

2 things a lot of members replace as preventative maintenance are the Lower Ball Joints and the Radiator. Ball joint failure is fairly common with our rigs and there's been enough reports of the transmission cooler failure in the radiator causing a mixing of the coolant and transmission fluid that will ruin the automatic transmission that inspire people to replace the radiator or bypass the cooler and run an external trans cooler.

I think maybe I gave you too much info so don't stress. Take your time and tackle one thing at a time. You came to the right place for help. This forum is a wealth of knowledge and we'll help you out. As a general rule, do a google search for your questions and you'll most likely find a thread on this forum or another related to what you're trying to figure out. If you still have a question after doing some research, either post a question on an existing related thread or start a new thread.

Happy Wrenching 3rd Gen Sister!

I've already planned on having my timing belt replaced, and radiator too! I've watched a couple videos on doing the radiator myself. Looks achievable, but I don't have anyone to look over my work... and I'm far too afraid I'll ruin my new rig if I make the smallest mistake. So I will probably just have it done by a professional this time around! Thanks for all of the Imformation and advice.

 

[rubymac]

Would you say if it isn't wet, it's not my axel seal? Does it sound correct that the brake dust and no wetness could possibly mean my wheel cylinder? Can bad wheel cylinders lead to leaking axel seals? Are these problems related?

Also, thank you everyone for the info!

 

[infamousRNR]

Would you say if it isn't wet, it's not my axel seal? Does it sound correct that the brake dust and no wetness could possibly mean my wheel cylinder? Can bad wheel cylinders lead to leaking axel seals? Are these problems related?

Also, thank you everyone for the info!

If your wheel cylinder took a dump... it would be wet. But wet with brake fluid...


If your axle seal took a dump... it would be wet. But wet with axle fluid...


Either way if one of these failed.. it would be wet.

 

[ZionXIX]

Old axle fluid (gear oil) has a unique smell you will never forget. Some have described it as "skunk piss".

 

[mtbtim]

Would you say if it isn't wet, it's not my axel seal? Does it sound correct that the brake dust and no wetness could possibly mean my wheel cylinder? Can bad wheel cylinders lead to leaking axel seals? Are these problems related?

Also, thank you everyone for the info!

Ruby, if you an ABS rig, you can easily check to see if one of your axle seals has failed. Jack up the rear end and support the axle with a 3 ton or 6 ton jack stand so both wheels are off the ground. Make sure one of the front wheels is chocked fore and aft before you lift the rear end off the ground. Now, place your transmission into neutral and disengage the parking brake. Remove the wheels (makes it easier to see). Remove the small bolt that holds the ABS sensors onto the axle and pull the sensors out on each side. With a flashlight handy, turn the axle while looking inside the ABS sensor hole. You will see gear looking thing and that's the ABS sensor gear. Gear oil should not be in this area if the axle seals are good. If you have a pal that can help you, have them grab onto the wheel studs and turn the axle while you're looking at the ABS gear. If there is gear oil in there, the ABS gear will work like a water wheel and lap it up. So, if you see gear oil on the ABS gear, your axle seal is allowing gear oil to get past. If enough gear oil gets in that area, it can infiltrate the bearing washing out the bearing grease and then it eventually makes it's way into the brakes coating your brake shoes in gear oil.

Like was mentioned before, the reason why gear oil got past the seal could be because the breather on the top of the 3rd member is blocked and allowing excessive pressure to build up. That pressure has to go somewhere and the path of least resistance is the oil seal. It's very common in the rust belt of the country for these to get corroded so bad that they don't function anymore. If it was blocked, it's a super easy thing to replace but that doesn't mean the axle seal didn't receive permanent damage from the excessive pressure that was allowed to build up.

Car maintenance and repair isn't for everyone and it does take some investment in tools. You also have to have the time and patience to tackle these jobs. Sounds like you're going to let certified mechanics do the work for you and that's ok.

 

[mtbtim]

Ah! I have all of the parts (all OEM) in a box in the garage waiting to do this. Seals, retainers, ABS rings, new bearings, etc. Currently leaking into the ABS section of the housing, but not out to the brakes yet.

If you don't find anybody actually local, I have 3 free weekends in February to come up from SoCal... I was going to do it at a buddy's house, but neither of us have personal experience with this and I'd like to know it'll be 100% right after all the work is done.

-Charlie

Hey Charlie, I'll check with Sean when he's back in the country and see if we could figure out a weekend to help you out. I have a spare room so I can put you up too so you don't have to rent a motel/hotel as long as you promise you're not an ax murderer. Well, if you are an ax murderer, I'd just ask you take a weekend off when you get to my place.

Right now, I have Feb 4th and 5th, 11th and 12th and the 18th available. But, I don't know what Sean's schedule is and I like to have him there when we're wrenching and videoing.

You sure you want to drive all the way down from SoCal for this? That's a lot of time and gas money.

 

[rubymac]

Ruby, if you an ABS rig, you can easily check to see if one of your axle seals has failed. Jack up the rear end and support the axle with a 3 ton or 6 ton jack stand so both wheels are off the ground. Make sure one of the front wheels is chocked fore and aft before you lift the rear end off the ground. Now, place your transmission into neutral and disengage the parking brake. Remove the wheels (makes it easier to see). Remove the small bolt that holds the ABS sensors onto the axle and pull the sensors out on each side. With a flashlight handy, turn the axle while looking inside the ABS sensor hole. You will see gear looking thing and that's the ABS sensor gear. Gear oil should not be in this area if the axle seals are good. If you have a pal that can help you, have them grab onto the wheel studs and turn the axle while you're looking at the ABS gear. If there is gear oil in there, the ABS gear will work like a water wheel and lap it up. So, if you see gear oil on the ABS gear, your axle seal is allowing gear oil to get past. If enough gear oil gets in that area, it can infiltrate the bearing washing out the bearing grease and then it eventually makes it's way into the brakes coating your brake shoes in gear oil.

Like was mentioned before, the reason why gear oil got past the seal could be because the breather on the top of the 3rd member is blocked and allowing excessive pressure to build up. That pressure has to go somewhere and the path of least resistance is the oil seal. It's very common in the rust belt of the country for these to get corroded so bad that they don't function anymore. If it was blocked, it's a super easy thing to replace but that doesn't mean the axle seal didn't receive permanent damage from the excessive pressure that was allowed to build up.

Car maintenance and repair isn't for everyone and it does take some investment in tools. You also have to have the time and patience to tackle these jobs. Sounds like you're going to let certified mechanics do the work for you and that's ok.

I have had a couple people look over it, and the person who actually invited me to come take a look, when i looked..I didn't see any grease or wetness.. it just looked a little dirtier than everything else. He said it was brake dust.? The brakes were done recently. Could that be why? Or would wheel cylinder make sence?

I've noticed it takes some tools and space to diy. Just not at that point in my life.... for now, I'm just happy enough to know I'm not getting ripped off by anyone.

I will continue to do more reading. Thanks.

 

[Beaumont67]

When [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I helped [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION] with his rear axle seal job on his non-ABS rig, we realized it was best to flip the retainer around so the seal would ride on the polished surface of the retainer better. In the OEM orientation with the bevel facing the seal, the lip of the seal barely rides on the polished part of the retainer. Over time with a little bit of bearing play, the lip of the seal will sometimes be riding on the non-polished bevel and the seal will prematurely fail. When you flip the retainer around (bevel facing the bearing), the lip of the seal pretty much rides right in the middle of the polished area of the retainer which is much better. We can't take credit for this idea though, [MENTION=78997]Drcoffee[/MENTION] came up with the the retainer flip.

If you don't flip the retainer, your only other choice is to not drive in the seal in all the way so it meets up with the retainer better. With a non-ABS rear end, you can't adjust the retainer position because it has to be pressed flush with the bearing in order to get the c-clip on. So, you either flip the retainer like we did or you don't drive the seal in all the way.

This is not just a problem with non-ABS rigs. The same goes for the ABS rigs. You need to change the position of the inner retainer on the axle. Some just move the retainer inboard more on the axle but then the retainer is coming pretty close to rubbing the inside of the axle housing. Many use [MENTION=78997]Drcoffee[/MENTION] technique and flip the retainer so the seal is riding more in the center of the polished part of the retainer and it's not close to rubbing the inside of the axle housing.

If you did replace one of your axle seals, did you do the grease test to see where the lip of the new seal is riding on the retainer? With [MENTION=148218]JZiggy[/MENTION] rig, we put the new seal in first, installed the axle with the retainer still in the OEM orientation and the grease test showed the seal was barely on the shoulder of the polished part of the retainer. If your bearings are original, then there's definitely some play and the seal will sometimes be riding on the non-polished bevel. Depending on how long ago you replaced the seal, it could already be leaking on you. It probably wound't be a bad idea to pull your drums to see if any gear oil is leaking into your brake area.

Ok, enough Rear Axle Seal 101.

^^ Great info & Thread.

When I bought my 2000 SR5 from a close friend with garage & dealer licence, the agreed purchase price included Govn. Safety check & E-Test.
- once it got on the hoist for inspection, the rear axle seals were leaking
- my 4Runner was low miles (89,xxx miles / one senior owner) and always maintained at a Lexus/Toyota dealership
- his top mechanic is retired from Army, so his workmanship is stellar
- when the axle's were pulled, mechanic found leaking axle seals installed wrong
(so appreciate your write-up)
- ABS rings damaged during removal, so new ones ordered from Toyota
- quality OEM seals & Koyo wheel bearings (made in Japan), also installed...no white box China-crap parts
- ceramic brake shoes, spring hardware kit & maybe a wheel cylinder (or 2 ?) completed the brake task
I got lucky, excellent & complete rear axle repair work was performed, at no charge.

 

[MattJakobs]

It's awesome that you guys are doing this simply for others to see how it's done!

 

[mtbtim]

I have had a couple people look over it, and the person who actually invited me to come take a look, when i looked..I didn't see any grease or wetness.. it just looked a little dirtier than everything else. He said it was brake dust.? The brakes were done recently. Could that be why? Or would wheel cylinder make sence?

I've noticed it takes some tools and space to diy. Just not at that point in my life.... for now, I'm just happy enough to know I'm not getting ripped off by anyone.

I will continue to do more reading. Thanks.

Yeah, brake dust from the shoes accumulates in the drums and over all the brake parts. It's normal but I wouldn't expect a ton of brake dust if the brake had been recently done unless the person who did the brakes didn't clean everything off really good with brake cleaner when they did the job.

 

[phattyduck]

Hey Charlie, I'll check with Sean when he's back in the country and see if we could figure out a weekend to help you out. I have a spare room so I can put you up too so you don't have to rent a motel/hotel as long as you promise you're not an ax murderer. Well, if you are an ax murderer, I'd just ask you take a weekend off when you get to my place.

Right now, I have Feb 4th and 5th, 11th and 12th and the 18th available. But, I don't know what Sean's schedule is and I like to have him there when we're wrenching and videoing.

You sure you want to drive all the way down from SoCal for this? That's a lot of time and gas money.

Like I said, if there is someone more local - that's cool. Because if somebody else is local, I'll still get to watch the video. :lmao:

I have already had the whole rear end apart recently (swapping 3rd's), so I know there won't be any major troubles with broken bolts etc. I figure it should be just a day of work, right?

-Charlie

 

[mtbtim]

Like I said, if there is someone more local - that's cool. Because if somebody else is local, I'll still get to watch the video. :lmao:

I have already had the whole rear end apart recently (swapping 3rd's), so I know there won't be any major troubles with broken bolts etc. I figure it should be just a day of work, right?

-Charlie

Yes, it's one day of work but it's always good to start early because we take longer because we are videoing and there always seems to be at least one hang-up. We usually like starting around 9-10am, so that would be a very early start for you if you want to drive up that same day. That's why I offered the place to stay so you could come up the night before. But, if you don't mind getting up leaving before the crack of dawn, that's cool.

Nobody else local has expressed interest, so you're the only one currently.

 

[mtbtim]

Bump. So far we have a SoCal brother ready for this repair. Any Bay Area dudes in need of this?

 

[mtbtim]

[MENTION=139000]phattyduck[/MENTION] (aka Charlie), you're the only one interested in taking us up on this offer so if you still want to drive up north to visit us, we'd be glad to help you out with your rear axle seal job. Did any of the dates I mentioned a few posts back work for you?

 

[mtbtim]

Still looking for someone to take us up on this. We've got one member we might be able to help but I'm going to throw it out to others until I get a confirmed person with a date we're going to video the job on.

Any takers?