E15 fuel in my 4Runner

[My 4R]

So as a semi-hypothetical question, what if E15 fuel shows up at our pumps in the near future. Is Toyota going to still warranty the fuel system? An email from Toyota confirms the fuel system in the 5th Gen 4Runner cannot handle 15%. Heck the pumps here in AZ have said "may contain up to 15% ethanol" for a long time, I just don't think are allowed to do it yet.
Think Toyota will upgrade all the newer vehicles since the Government has stated that its safe for 2006 and newer vehicles? or will they say "oh ya, E15 is OK........ NOW". I know E10 or less would still be around, but how much of it. I wouldn't want to be tied to a specific type of fuel, probably cost more since it would be a nuisance blend

Only reason I thought this would be interesting is that I fueled up the 4R for the first time today and noticed the NO E15 on the gas cap.

 

[brockeverly]

So as a semi-hypothetical question, what if E15 fuel shows up at our pumps in the near future. Is Toyota going to still warranty the fuel system? An email from Toyota confirms the fuel system in the 5th Gen 4Runner cannot handle 15%. Heck the pumps here in AZ have said "may contain up to 15% ethanol" for a long time, I just don't think are allowed to do it yet.
Think Toyota will upgrade all the newer vehicles since the Government has stated that its safe for 2006 and newer vehicles? or will they say "oh ya, E15 is OK........ NOW". I know E10 or less would still be around, but how much of it. I wouldn't want to be tied to a specific type of fuel, probably cost more since it would be a nuisance blend

Only reason I thought this would be interesting is that I fueled up the 4R for the first time today and noticed the NO E15 on the gas cap.

The tolerance for ethanol is far higher than 10% in all late model vehicles. Auto manufacturers would be stupid to make vehicles only comply to the minimum, it will be fine. FWIW I ran straight E85 in a 2005 Subaru WRX for 50k+ and never had an issue (it was tuned for alcohol, but nothing else changed). I just checked my gas cap and it does not say no E15, are you sure it didn't say no E85? I have seen that on gas caps before but never no E15.

 

[brockeverly]

A quick news story I found, notice that they say they will not honor warranty for "older" vehicles. Per the EPA, E15 can be ran in all 2001 and newer, I doubt there are any vehicles older than that running around with a warranty.

Warranties void on cars burning E15, say automakers

 

[My 4R]

My gas cap says up to E10 gasoline only. No E10 - E85


Toyota response found on Toyota Nation regarding a Tacoma (same fuel requirements as 4R I believe).

Information pulled off the web, but seems to fit the literature I have found.

Recently you contacted Toyota. Below is a summary of your contact message and our response.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

Subject
2011 Tacoma Engine on E15 fuel

Discussion Thread
Response (Tom Morita)
10/18/2010 05:06 PM
Dear John K,

Thank you for contacting us.

We appreciate your interest in properly operating your Tacoma.

Toyota vehicles are not designed to use E15 fuel and use of that fuel could cause corrosion on some metal components in the fuel system. Further, using E15 as a fuel source may impact the Limited Factory Warranty of your Tacoma.

Please follow the fuel requirement guidelines set forth in your 2011 Tacoma's Owner's Manual.

Thank you again for your inquiry.

Sincerely,
Thomas Morita
Toyota Customer Experience

 

[homeyclaus]

It's odd that companies like GM, Toyota, and VW, (actually, all of them), who actively sell in E100 markets elsewhere in the world sell the same engine types in vehicles in the US and claim they cannot handle them.

Would it really kill their profits to use ethanol-resistant components in their US vehicles considering the vehicles here are sold at higher margins? I smell a cop-out.

 

[ClockWork]

Why can't we as consumers choose if we want to put e-Junk in our cars or 100% gasoline. They perform far better on the latter.

 

[1engineer]

Just changing the seals would run $$$. Personally I think E15 won't happen for a long while.

 

[homeyclaus]

Why can't we as consumers choose if we want to put e-Junk in our cars or 100% gasoline. They perform far better on the latter.

Given the choice, I'd choose LPG (that's propane), or diesel. Longer engine life, less maintenance, less pollution, and less hassle all around. LPG is even a US resource, so it would appeal to those who care about that.

We don't get to make those choices, they're made by politicians and the machinery of the state. To a lesser extent, by committees within the manufacturers.

Just changing the seals would run $$$. Personally I think E15 won't happen for a long while.

You have a lot of faith in people appointed through a political process, my friend. What makes you think they won't declare it good for us and our cars, and make it a regulation in spite of the science? It's not like that has never happened before.

I do think it's a red herring on the manufacturers' part though. I would be surprised if the only thing that's natural rubber on our 4Runners is the tires. Everything in the fuel system should be synthetic, and impervious to ethanol, or methanol for that matter, just to get the warranty service rates down for ethanol and MTBE blended fuels.

 

[thebwlife]

i wonder what will happen with Gas to Liquids that will be coming here in the next couple years. This is where you take Natural Gas and turn it into a liquid ready to be pumped like gas. It should be compatible. Here is a company doing this and just got 155 million from CHK for R&D.

Sundrop Fuels, Inc.

 

[-JD-]

I always thought that the production of ethanol was actually worse for the environment in the long run?

 

[homeyclaus]

I always thought that the production of ethanol was actually worse for the environment in the long run?

Depends more on what it's made from. Corn, yes - like hybrid cars, it causes pollution worse than the original problem to be created elsewhere. But you can thank corn subsidies and congresscritters for turning those economics on their head.

As a second and third extract of of sugar cane, especially when the leftovers are used to provide the heat for the fermentation and distillation process, not so much.

 

[Quentin]

When the 2GR was updated in 2009 for the RX350 (if you look under the hood, you'll see that the injectors are green versus the Sienna and Camry of that model year that are bronze), the fuel system was updated to handle E20 fuel. Seeing that the 1GR in the 4Runner is even newer than that 2GR update, I'd expect that the 4Runner will be OK if E15 becomes commonplace. I'm not dealing with engines anymore, so I don't know if all the 2GRs have been updated with the new injector and I don't have to slightest idea of how to confirm for the 4Runner since it is a completely different injector design and Denso uses different colors for different part numbers, but it sounds as if Toyota has been planning for E20 conditions for several years now.

 

[1engineer]

Given the choice, I'd choose LPG (that's propane), or diesel. Longer engine life, less maintenance, less pollution, and less hassle all around. LPG is even a US resource, so it would appeal to those who care about that.

We don't get to make those choices, they're made by politicians and the machinery of the state. To a lesser extent, by committees within the manufacturers.



You have a lot of faith in people appointed through a political process, my friend. What makes you think they won't declare it good for us and our cars, and make it a regulation in spite of the science? It's not like that has never happened before.

I do think it's a red herring on the manufacturers' part though. I would be surprised if the only thing that's natural rubber on our 4Runners is the tires. Everything in the fuel system should be synthetic, and impervious to ethanol, or methanol for that matter, just to get the warranty service rates down for ethanol and MTBE blended fuels.

I think the real push for the next few years (politically) is for better fuel economy. E15 will not help the cause as we all know gas blends such as this are not as efficient as unblended fuels. As a simple experiment I have run several tanks of Ethanol - free fuel during my travels. I do not have a station that sells unblended fuel near where I live but there is one I pass during my business trips and I try to fill up there every now and then. While this test is far from scientific (I will still have several gallons of blended fuel in my tank for example) I do get an increase of 8-10% of fuel efficiency. To close I think CAFE standards will trump Corn growers in the near term. We all know though that you cannot predict the political system as there is no logic (or brains) located anywhere in our government. Apparently you just need to look good, speak well, only have a position on issues if it will help you ge re-elected and be able to raise money. Oh, a law degree helps too.

I do think though our vehicles could be manufactured to run E15 with little to no change in price. To convert one however will require some cost.

 

[Jtraskell]

Given the choice, I'd choose LPG (that's propane), or diesel. Longer engine life, less maintenance, less pollution, and less hassle all around. LPG is even a US resource, so it would appeal to those who care about that.
We don't get to make those choices, they're made by politicians and the machinery of the state. To a lesser extent, by committees within the manufacturers.



You have a lot of faith in people appointed through a political process, my friend. What makes you think they won't declare it good for us and our cars, and make it a regulation in spite of the science? It's not like that has never happened before.

I do think it's a red herring on the manufacturers' part though. I would be surprised if the only thing that's natural rubber on our 4Runners is the tires. Everything in the fuel system should be synthetic, and impervious to ethanol, or methanol for that matter, just to get the warranty service rates down for ethanol and MTBE blended fuels.

Homeyclaus, Propane, or LPG is a "byproduct" of the manufacture of Gasoline.
That is why, if you notice as I do since I do not have Natural Gas where I live and the few "Gas" appliances that I do have run off a 500 gallon underground propane tank, the prices fluctuate in direct proportion with Gasoline prices. (Give or take a few cents depending on existing supply), but the point being, in and unto itself, it is NOT a natural resource. (although we do have some of this) It is a product of crude oil.

 

[homeyclaus]

Homeyclaus, Propane, or LPG is a "byproduct" of the manufacture of Gasoline.
That is why, if you notice as I do since I do not have Natural Gas where I live and the few "Gas" appliances that I do have run off a 500 gallon underground propane tank, the prices fluctuate in direct proportion with Gasoline prices. (Give or take a few cents depending on existing supply), but the point being, in and unto itself, it is NOT a natural resource. (although we do have some of this) It is a product of crude oil.

It's a byproduct of natural gas processing also, since there is all sorts of stuff, including propane, that's in there before it gets put into pipes going to homes. Some will say that 90% of it is domestically produced - granted about half of that from the gasoline refiners.

Hydrocarbon energy prices will always vary in a relatively fixed relation to oil.

 

[jam23r1]

just bring this back up so how are the cars and trucks going to act if there not ''flex fuel'' with 15% ethanol now going in the gas?

 

[1engineer]

just bring this back up so how are the cars and trucks going to act if there not ''flex fuel'' with 15% ethanol now going in the gas?

Separate pumps. Most vehicles manufactured before 2011 are not approved. EPA just approved it and is working with distributors and retailers on how it will be accomplished. Adding a specific pump is likely.

 

[jam23r1]

i just want to TN to see family and they have 100% gas and my mpg shot up by a hole gallon permile just driveing in the city. just wish they had 100% gas in va i would pay a little more for it.

 

[4Run4YourLife]

i just want to TN to see family and they have 100% gas and my mpg shot up by a hole gallon permile just driveing in the city. just wish they had 100% gas in va i would pay a little more for it.

I pay a little more for 100% gas near my home.

The gas station owner just put a sign up that explains that the Government is about to mandate that 100% gas be artificially more expensive than the ethanol mix.:rant::dammit::ybrick::crybaby::redbrick::nono:

He is choosing to leave one pump as 100% gas, so the customers can choose. He is the only one in town with 100% gas.

 

[Jtraskell]

For those looking for the "golden gas", this might help.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada