Easy wiring question?

[Lewis&Clark]

So y'all know I'm not an electrician. But I don't learn anything by hiring a professional to do it for me...so, hopefully with a few pointers from you guys, I'll hard-wire my new charging dock for my iPhone to my '08 T4R Ltd.

The holder w/ charger attaches to a mount (already mounted) on my dashboard. I need to wire it behind the dash.

Here's the old holder I'm replacing with a new one that has it's own built-in charger. I want to wire it behind the gray panel because I don't like having cords all over my shifter and console.



And here's the device that it's being replaced with:



I'm assuming it's pretty straight forward. There's a 12V positive power wire, and a grounding wire.

But there's also a 2A in-line fuse.



Lastly, these are the only instructions/diagram they provide:



So I have a few questions:

1. When I remove the gray panel, is it as simple as prying or popping it off? I assume I'll need to also remove the gray panel that lines the console area with shifter below; that part's no problem as I removed it before when installing the cig lighter. For the gray dashboard panel, are there hidden screws or anything I need to worry about? And once it's off, will I be able to access somewhere to run the power wire, or will I need to remove more parts of the dash?

2. How do I actually wire? Do I just strip an existing wire and wrap the ends of the power wire around an existing wire?


Any help in the form of step-by-steps would be most greatly appreciated. And for whatever it's worth, I know these are pathetically simple questions, but I can't tell you how much I'm learning from y'all. I sincerely appreciate it!

dt

 

[Lewis&Clark]

Hmmm...photos not working. The post editor prompted me for a URL and didn't seem to have an option for uploading a photo, so I put them into Dropbox and linked to them directly from there.

How in the heck do people do photos?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Hmmm...photos not working. The post editor prompted me for a URL and didn't seem to have an option for uploading a photo, so I put them into Dropbox and linked to them directly from there.

How in the heck do people do photos?

There's two main ways:

• Upload the photos to a website such as Photo and image hosting, free photo galleries, photo editing and then use the URL by clicking the little icon that looks like a mountain and pasting it in (Photobucket actually will make pre-written HTML tags for IMGs and Thumbnails when you view a gallery)
• Click the Paperclip looking Icon (only available in "Advanced Mode" of Repling to a thread) and then upload the file directly to T4R.org's Server, then when you're done press the Paper Clip Icon again and you should see a list of files you can now Attach to the post!

 

[Lewis&Clark]

There's two main ways:

• Upload the photos to a website such as Photo and image hosting, free photo galleries, photo editing and then use the URL by clicking the little icon that looks like a mountain and pasting it in (Photobucket actually will make pre-written HTML tags for IMGs and Thumbnails when you view a gallery)
• Click the Paperclip looking Icon (only available in "Advanced Mode" of Repling to a thread) and then upload the file directly to T4R.org's Server, then when you're done press the Paper Clip Icon again and you should see a list of files you can now Attach to the post!

Thanks. I thought I had seen the paperclip somewhere, but didn't realize it was only on replies.

Post fixed.

Anyone have any pointers for a non-electrician just getting started?

 

[fourwd1]

You can get wire splices similar to the blue fuse holder that you can use to connect the position and negative wires to the vehicle wiring without cutting and splicing.

 

[Raven]

1. Under no circumstances would I recommend just stripping the insulation off an existing wire, and then just wrapping the new wire around the exposed copper! (I know, this is how they seem to wire in a remote starter, but there is too much potential for a poor, high resistance connection, and corrosion down the line)

2. I don't like those snap on connectors, but they are convenient, and they do work. Just go to a good source and buy better quality - there is a lot of crap out there!

3. If you can run that red wire directly to a proper termination point at the source, with an eye terminal and screw, this would be better.

4. You will want to decide first if you want the phone charger to work with the ignition off, or only when the engine is running, and choose your source accordingly.

5. Tuck all the wires away neatly, use a few cable ties if necessary, use heat shrink and deox. on the wire terminations if you want to be really anal about it, put all the dash panels back without scratching anything, and call yourself a professional phone dock installer!

If you installed your own lighter plug, you should have no trouble with this!

 

[SSt4r]

For removal of the panel see this: How to Remove the Navigation Head Unit from a 2003 Toyota 4Runner as there are several "hidden" screws.

 

[Lewis&Clark]

1. Under no circumstances would I recommend just stripping the insulation off an existing wire, and then just wrapping the new wire around the exposed copper! (I know, this is how they seem to wire in a remote starter, but there is too much potential for a poor, high resistance connection, and corrosion down the line)

2. I don't like those snap on connectors, but they are convenient, and they do work. Just go to a good source and buy better quality - there is a lot of crap out there!

3. If you can run that red wire directly to a proper termination point at the source, with an eye terminal and screw, this would be better.

4. You will want to decide first if you want the phone charger to work with the ignition off, or only when the engine is running, and choose your source accordingly.

5. Tuck all the wires away neatly, use a few cable ties if necessary, use heat shrink and deox. on the wire terminations if you want to be really anal about it, put all the dash panels back without scratching anything, and call yourself a professional phone dock installer!

If you installed your own lighter plug, you should have no trouble with this!

Toyota's cig lighter assembly is plug and play so this is definitely not the same thing. But I'll figure this out

I'll go to an auto parts store for some heat shrink and deox.

But I'm still not exactly clear how to do the actual wiring. When you say a proper termination point at the source, what are you referring to? And where behind the dash do I go to look for a proper 12V power source?


Thanks--getting there!

dt

 

[Lewis&Clark]

1. 4. You will want to decide first if you want the phone charger to work with the ignition off, or only when the engine is running, and choose your source accordingly.

Forgot to say that I (successfully!) did the mod somewhere here in the forums for persistent power from the USB/cig lighter even after the engine is off. That is the behavior I also want for this hard-wired charger.

 

[Raven]

Dan:
First, I confess I have not had a 4Runner dash apart, and I do not have a wiring schematic for your vehicle, so I don't know exactly what wires are available back there. I do know there must be more than a few wires carrying 12V DC, because you have a bunch of electrical devices mounted in the dash. Most of them are probably without power when the ignition is off, so, to find one that is live without ignition on, you would want a test light or a DVM.

The easiest way to do this job would probably be to simply tap into the feed wire for that lighter receptacle you installed. You can buy those snap-on connectors, similar to the one shown in your photo, to tap another wire onto an existing wire, without interupting that feed wire. The one they gave you instructions for separates the main feed wire (you cut it) and then the fuse in effect rejoins the circuit.
So, you would use the "add-a-wire" snap connector to tap into your lighter feed, then cut the red wire to your black box, and put their fuse connector into that line.
Find a wire that is screwed directly onto the metal chassis somewhere, and join your black wire to that (ground).

BETTER WAY:
They have given you 8' of wire to the black box.
Run both red and black wires together, following any bunch of wires that go back through the firewall to the engine bay. Use wire ties to secure to other wires in the bundle.
Once in the engine compartment, run the wire to the main fuse box.
Find a blank/spare fuse location and connect the red wire, then plug in a 2A fuse. (You will no longer need the fuse block they included with the kit)
Connect the black wire to a good ground point.
Done.

I can see it in MY mind - have I explained it well enough for you to get a mental picture of the plan. (I have been told that anyone who can understand my thinking, should seek professional help!)

 

[Lewis&Clark]

Dan:
First, I confess I have not had a 4Runner dash apart, and I do not have a wiring schematic for your vehicle, so I don't know exactly what wires are available back there. I do know there must be more than a few wires carrying 12V DC, because you have a bunch of electrical devices mounted in the dash. Most of them are probably without power when the ignition is off, so, to find one that is live without ignition on, you would want a test light or a DVM.

The easiest way to do this job would probably be to simply tap into the feed wire for that lighter receptacle you installed. You can buy those snap-on connectors, similar to the one shown in your photo, to tap another wire onto an existing wire, without interupting that feed wire. The one they gave you instructions for separates the main feed wire (you cut it) and then the fuse in effect rejoins the circuit.
So, you would use the "add-a-wire" snap connector to tap into your lighter feed, then cut the red wire to your black box, and put their fuse connector into that line.
Find a wire that is screwed directly onto the metal chassis somewhere, and join your black wire to that (ground).

BETTER WAY:
They have given you 8' of wire to the black box.
Run both red and black wires together, following any bunch of wires that go back through the firewall to the engine bay. Use wire ties to secure to other wires in the bundle.
Once in the engine compartment, run the wire to the main fuse box.
Find a blank/spare fuse location and connect the red wire, then plug in a 2A fuse. (You will no longer need the fuse block they included with the kit)
Connect the black wire to a good ground point.
Done.

I can see it in MY mind - have I explained it well enough for you to get a mental picture of the plan. (I have been told that anyone who can understand my thinking, should seek professional help!)

David,

Thanks for taking the time on this; I appreciate it. Yes, it's starting to piece together for me. I won't really have a picture in my head until I dig in and start taking things apart, but it is making sense. Just wish I didn't have to pull out so much of the dash and electronics to get into the area where the existing lines will run back to the firewall.

A couple questions.

1. What makes going through the firewall a better option? It actually sounds easier if more cumbersome, but irrespective of which is easier, what makes that approach "better"?

2. In the main fuse box, any empty slot will do? (I'm definitely planning to go to the fuse box rather than try to tap into the wires used for the cig lighter assembly)

3. Lastly, I did some digging. This was the mod I did for persistent 12V power. Followed it to the letter, and found it surprisingly easy to do. But as I mentioned, I'm looking for the same behavior after this is installed. I would think it'd work the same way...

 

[Raven]

Mornin' Dan:
I forgot that you have an '08, with an accessory fuse panel under the dash, like my old FJ. That might make it easier, or not!

1. You may not have to take your center dash apart. The main reason for doing that would be to get at the wires back there. If you are not going to tap into the ciggy lighter plug wire, then why bother dismantling your dash? You only have a small, jacketed wire pair coming out from the bottom of your phone dock, and it is not mounted high on the dash. Why not just route the wires carefully, concealing them as best you can, to get them behind the dash? Hot-glue them over a crease or join at the edge of a panel? There is plenty of room to run wires to the back beside the steering column on mine.
Anyway, you would not have to run wires through the firewall to the engine compartment, if you can use that fuse box to the left of the steering column. You would have to take that fuse box apart to get at a spare fuse slot, or have a way of determining which of the many wires coming out the back is connected to that spare slot.

2. My reason for suggesting going through the firewall to the main fuse box?
I always prefer going for a hard wire attach point, with a screw terminal, or spade connector, rather than those snap-on joiner/splicers. That's me being anal! It would also allow you to ignore the in-line fuse holder they provided with the kit. You might be able to accomplish this at that accessory fuse panel under the dash.

3. Best solution - use the snap-ons and connect to the positive feed to your lighter receptacle. It is less than a 2 amp draw, after all, and those snap connectors will be in a protected, dry location, so it should be fine.

Keep us posted ....

 

[Lewis&Clark]

Mornin' Dan:
I forgot that you have an '08, with an accessory fuse panel under the dash, like my old FJ. That might make it easier, or not!

1. You may not have to take your center dash apart. The main reason for doing that would be to get at the wires back there. If you are not going to tap into the ciggy lighter plug wire, then why bother dismantling your dash? You only have a small, jacketed wire pair coming out from the bottom of your phone dock, and it is not mounted high on the dash. Why not just route the wires carefully, concealing them as best you can, to get them behind the dash? Hot-glue them over a crease or join at the edge of a panel? There is plenty of room to run wires to the back beside the steering column on mine.
Anyway, you would not have to run wires through the firewall to the engine compartment, if you can use that fuse box to the left of the steering column. You would have to take that fuse box apart to get at a spare fuse slot, or have a way of determining which of the many wires coming out the back is connected to that spare slot.

2. My reason for suggesting going through the firewall to the main fuse box?
I always prefer going for a hard wire attach point, with a screw terminal, or spade connector, rather than those snap-on joiner/splicers. That's me being anal! It would also allow you to ignore the in-line fuse holder they provided with the kit. You might be able to accomplish this at that accessory fuse panel under the dash.

3. Best solution - use the snap-ons and connect to the positive feed to your lighter receptacle. It is less than a 2 amp draw, after all, and those snap connectors will be in a protected, dry location, so it should be fine.

Keep us posted ....

Hmmm.

From what I remember from the 12V persistent power mod, the fuse box under the dash by the driver's seat wasn't hard to get to, but it was a bit awkward and meant pulling out a portion of the dash so I could get it out enough to get to the back of it.

I'll think through each of the options today; hopefully get the wiring done late this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon when I get home from work. Part of the calculus might be whether or not there's any other mods I can do as long as I've opened things up to get in there. Otherwise I may as well just use the snappers and attach it to the cig assembly.

Before I do anything though, a couple (presumably final!) questions:


1. I'm looking at a photo of the cig lighter assembly. How can I tell which cord is the "positive feed"? Red, green, white, black, blue?




2. For the snaps, if I understand how I do the splice correctly using the snappy thingy they gave me, I would place the snap around the power wire on the cig assembly, and feed the clean-cut end of the holder's power wire into the snap as well. At no point do I personally actually cut the wire on the cig assembly, or strip any wires. And then when I use a crimper or pliers on the snap, it basically cuts into both wires and connects them, and then the snap holds it all in place.

Is this basically it?


3. It would seem that the snap is a...I don't know...risky approach? It just doesn't seem very precise. Is there any chance the splicing snappy thingy won't cleanly cut into both wires, leaving me with a cig assembly that has a newly cut power wire that therefore can't be fixed and thus the whole thing has to be replaced? Would it leave any wire fibers exposed to the air and thus able to oxidize over time (and therefore reduce the quality the power connection)?

 

[Raven]

Can you post a front view of that fancy ash tray thingy? Never actually seen one, so can't be sure which is the main pos. feed - it should be the red, but who knows? Adding to the confusion is the fact that there are 4 wired modules on that thing, and I can't be certain from the back which is the cig. Lighter.

If you have a Digital Volt Meter, you could easily check. Best might be to not tap into any of those wires on the assembly. There is a female receptacle on there that all the wires go to. You might be wiser to leave those wires alone, and find which is the pos. feed wire in the male plug that is plugged into it. (dVM or test probe) Tap into that wire to provide juice to your phone dock.

 

[Lewis&Clark]

Can you post a front view of that fancy ash tray thingy? Never actually seen one, so can't be sure which is the main pos. feed - it should be the red, but who knows? Adding to the confusion is the fact that there are 4 wired modules on that thing, and I can't be certain from the back which is the cig. Lighter.

If you have a Digital Volt Meter, you could easily check. Best might be to not tap into any of those wires on the assembly. There is a female receptacle on there that all the wires go to. You might be wiser to leave those wires alone, and find which is the pos. feed wire in the male plug that is plugged into it. (dVM or test probe) Tap into that wire to provide juice to your phone dock.

Well, I do have a volt meter I just bought on a super deal from Harbor Freight, but I admit I don't know know how to use it yet Literally just bought it a few days ago.

A couple more photos, all lifted from some eBay listings for the part. These are the best I can offer short of removing mine, which I can do later this evening if necessary. As you can tell, this thing was entirely plug-and-play. All I had to do was remove the center console panels, disconnect the original assembly, and plug this one in its place.

The whole assembly is Toyota OEM part #74110-35010-B0

 

[Raven]

You've got the right idea on those quick connectors.
For the main tap, you do not cut the feed wire. You just position the wire in the long groove of the snapper, place the end of the new wire (untrimmed) alongside, close the snapper and squeeze with pliers.

When you splice the fuse block into the new wire, you must cut that wire before putting both ends into the snap.

You are also right about those quick joiners - lots of reasons why I don't like them. (Minor damage to the wire, increasing the risk of corrosion/ minimal electrical contact area between the cutter blade and the wire, possibly leading to heat buil-up in the joint / difficult to seal properly)
BUT - in this case we are only talking about a small current draw, and a device that is not life threatening. (Unless it starts a fire!)
You could fill the connector with deox or vaseline before you snap it closed, if you are worried, but I know of nobody who does that. ('cept me, sometimes!)

You could also go to a specialty electrical or marine outlet, and buy more appropriate connectors, using standard crimp-on fittings, with adhesive heat shrink. Most would consider this over-kill.

 

[Raven]

Looks like the red wire with blue stripe is pos. feed for lighter, and white is pos. feed for accessory 12V plug in. (Not sure on this one - whichever wire goes to centre nut on the back of the receptacle is positive)
Either one would work for your needs, just remember that you will be sharing the available electrical current with your phone charger, so, theoretically, you shoud deduct about an amp from the outlets capacity.

Not certain about those wire colours, since I can't see the exact termination points in the photo. Whichever wire feeds the center pin on the receptacles, that is the positive.

 

[SSt4r]

If you can wait a little, I'll get you the colors. I would tap into the other connector wires (the one that you unplugged in the console, not the ones attached to the lighter/ashtray assembly).

EDIT: Raven should be right. The pink with blue is the acc feed for the cig. lighter. In the console, the brown with red is the feed for the charger outlet. You should be able to confirm that the black wire on the component above connects to that. The green are the + for the illumination. The white with black are grounds.
CAUTION if you want to tie into those grounds: make sure they are from the lighter or charger ports and NOT tied into the light circuit. The light circuit negatives should be white with green on the truck side. Those then go through the rheostat.
As I said above, I wouldn't tie into the wires shown on the component above, but the other ends of those wires. If you want to remove the component above (the lighter assembly) you would have to cut whatever wires you tied into it.

 

[Raven]

Agree with SSt4r, tap into the wires the other side of the plug that connects to this assembly, not the wires on the assembly itself. Use DVM or test probe to determine positive.

 

[Lewis&Clark]

Agree with SSt4r, tap into the wires the other side of the plug that connects to this assembly, not the wires on the assembly itself. Use DVM or test probe to determine positive.

Raven & everyone else --

Thanks for all your help with this post. I finally got around to getting the mod done. It's been a long couple months!

Just did it today. I ultimately decided to use soldering rather than a splicer, and ran the wires behind the dash (wrapped around the right side in a notch I cut), and into the power wires that run into the cig/12V assembly.

Posted photos and instructions here.

Your help above made a big difference--THANKS!

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...d-wiring-proclip-phone-mount-post1926991.html