Ebay 5vz-fe Turbo

Huh? Wtf are you talking about? Increasing CFM increases PSI. Obviously a big V8 will take more CFM to reach, for example, 8psi than a small 4 cylinder, which would take less CFM to reach 8psi. However, we're not comparing different engines here. We're all talking about the 3.4 liter Toyota 5vz-fe. 8psi from a blower has the same CFM as a turbo, because the size of the motor isn't changing.

DEPENDING on what size turbo. 5psi on a large t4 turbo will make different power than 5psi on a small, lets say t25 turbo that comes from a sr20. I think I got jumbled up in all this freaking reading about the CFM, hahah, thats a my bad.

On your last post tho regarding the battery, yes its on the driver side
 
DEPENDING on what size turbo. 5psi on a large t4 turbo will make different power than 5psi on a small, lets say t25 turbo that comes from a sr20. I think I got jumbled up in all this freaking reading about the CFM, hahah, thats a my bad.

On your last post tho regarding the battery, yes its on the driver side

What do you mean by "different power"? I agree that a huge turbo vs small turbo will drastically change lag times, and where boost comes on at, but that has nothing to do with how much boost the engine/trans can handle.

Thanks for clearing that up about the battery. Singtoe, what side is your battery on? Did you switch sides during your V8 swap?
 
What do you mean by "different power"? I agree that a huge turbo vs small turbo will drastically change lag times, and where boost comes on at, but that has nothing to do with how much boost the engine/trans can handle.

Thanks for clearing that up about the battery. Singtoe, what side is your battery on? Did you switch sides during your V8 swap?

Different power meaning exactly what you mentioned.

The guy I originally replied to just wanted to slap a turbo on at 5psi and call it a day. It takes a lot more than that and that's what I was trying to address to him. Sure if he threw a small turbo on at 5psi it would probably kick in at low rpm and boost well thru the powerband, but he wanted to go on without a tune since he basically said "slap it on and go, just like the TRD supercharger". That 5psi of whatever turbo he may add, is either gonna make more, or less power than that of a TRD supercharger, and WILL require tuning in order for correct air fuel ratios all the way thru the powerband.

I've never said the 3.4 and trans can only handle so much power, that's was not me at all.
 
i may be the guy you originally replied to and for the life of me I dont see how the ECU is going to know the difference in what is moving air through the MAF; turbo charger, supercharger, leaf blower or a hairdryer.... my question is still, why couldn't you use a small turbo with very mild boost without tuning just as many many many people have done with the TRD supercharger? i don't care about fine-tuning, theres fine-tuning to be done on a bone stock N/A vehicle.
 
Different power meaning exactly what you mentioned.

The guy I originally replied to just wanted to slap a turbo on at 5psi and call it a day. It takes a lot more than that and that's what I was trying to address to him. Sure if he threw a small turbo on at 5psi it would probably kick in at low rpm and boost well thru the powerband, but he wanted to go on without a tune since he basically said "slap it on and go, just like the TRD supercharger". That 5psi of whatever turbo he may add, is either gonna make more, or less power than that of a TRD supercharger, and WILL require tuning in order for correct air fuel ratios all the way thru the powerband.

I've never said the 3.4 and trans can only handle so much power, that's was not me at all.

I guess I still don't understand why a turbo at 5psi would absolutely require a tune, and a TRD blower at 7psi wouldn't. The blower at 7psi is pushing more CFM than the turbo boosting at 5psi. The blower at 7psi would make more power at the CRANK than the 5psi turbo would, but at the wheels, the turbo could be making more power than the blower because of significantly less parasitic drag. If you set both the turbo and supercharger at 7psi, then they should both move about the same amount of CFM of air, and make similar power at the crank. But at the wheels, the turbo makes more power (again, the whole parasitic drag of the blower).

I know I keep referring back to Clownmeat's rear mount turbo build... but I think he's pretty much proven that you can run a turbo at 7psi, and not require tuning any more so than the TRD supercharged guys do. He's been doing it over a year now. Check out his thread and look at his videos. Pretty impressive.
 
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i may be the guy you originally replied to and for the life of me I dont see how the ECU is going to know the difference in what is moving air through the MAF; turbo charger, supercharger, leaf blower or a hairdryer.... my question is still, why couldn't you use a small turbo with very mild boost without tuning just as many many many people have done with the TRD supercharger? i don't care about fine-tuning, theres fine-tuning to be done on a bone stock N/A vehicle.

it doesn't. The problem comes in when you max out the metering capabilities of a mass air flow sensor. We'd be nowhere near that. I'd like to see the duty cycle of the injectors though, to see how close to max they were at, say, 8psi or so.
 
I guess I still don't understand why a turbo at 5psi would absolutely require a tune, and a TRD blower at 7psi wouldn't. The blower at 7psi is pushing more CFM than the turbo boosting at 5psi. The blower at 7psi would make more power at the CRANK than the 5psi turbo would, but at the wheels, the turbo could be making more power than the blower because of significantly less parasitic drag. If you set both the turbo and supercharger at 7psi, then they should both move about the same amount of CFM of air, and make similar power at the crank. But at the wheels, the turbo makes more power (again, the whole parasitic drag of the blower).

I know I keep referring back to Clownmeat's rear mount turbo build... but I think he's pretty much proven that you can run a turbo at 7psi, and not require tuning any more so than the TRD supercharged guys do. He's been doing it over a year now. Check out his thread and look at his videos. Pretty impressive.

So, what you are trying to tell us, is that a small turbo at 5psi will outperform a large turbo at 5psi, or be exactly the same?

Ok lets see... at lower speed, the smaller turbo will supply enough CFM to make good power. Then it becomes a massive restriction because it can't provide the same CFM at that boost pressure. It's like a golf ball through a garden hose. Now a large turbo at 5psi will take a bit to spool, but it has the flow to keep up with an engine at high RPM's. The large turbo will give you the power up top, and the small turbo will give you power down low. Everyone knows HP is a mathematical equation, so lets talk torque. The torque will likely be a similar number with both turbos at the same pressure, but the powerband will be completely different.

There are so many variables to a turbo, (intake/exhaust size, angle of wheel, materials of construction, A/R) that all change the CFM and efficiency of the turbo. The new ones are very efficient and produce much more power at the same PSI than old turbos. Not all turbos are created equal.

A turbo is also inherently more efficient than an S/C, because it runs on "waste" gases, where a S/C uses engine power to turn it.

In short, you could theoretically get a turbo that needs no tune, but it would likely have to be a smaller turbo, so it does not lean out the motor at higher RPM. It's still not a good idea.
 
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Correct if I am wrong.

I don't have any expierance with forced induction but is this true?


Small turbo makes 6 psi

Larger turbo makes 6 psi

The larger turbo will make it quicker and at lower rpm then a smaller turbo.



Same theory goes for the SC. It makes 6 PSI at redline but a Turbo will make 6 psi at a lower rpm.




Can anyone confirm or denie?
 
Correct if I am wrong.

I don't have any expierance with forced induction but is this true?


Small turbo makes 6 psi

Larger turbo makes 6 psi

The larger turbo will make it quicker and at lower rpm then a smaller turbo.



Same theory goes for the SC. It makes 6 PSI at redline but a Turbo will make 6 psi at a lower rpm.




Can anyone confirm or denie?

it depends on the engine size. Typically, the smaller the turbo, the quicker it spools and makes boost. It takes less exhaust pressure to get a smaller turbine to compress air.
Roots and positive displacement blowers make boost instantly with load applied. Centrifugal superchargers need engine RPM to make boost.
 
I guess I still don't understand why a turbo at 5psi would absolutely require a tune, and a TRD blower at 7psi wouldn't. The blower at 7psi is pushing more CFM than the turbo boosting at 5psi. The blower at 7psi would make more power at the CRANK than the 5psi turbo would, but at the wheels, the turbo could be making more power than the blower because of significantly less parasitic drag. If you set both the turbo and supercharger at 7psi, then they should both move about the same amount of CFM of air, and make similar power at the crank. But at the wheels, the turbo makes more power (again, the whole parasitic drag of the blower).

I know I keep referring back to Clownmeat's rear mount turbo build... but I think he's pretty much proven that you can run a turbo at 7psi, and not require tuning any more so than the TRD supercharged guys do. He's been doing it over a year now. Check out his thread and look at his videos. Pretty impressive.

What you need to do is figure out how much CFM the SC'r flows @ X psi. Then find a turbo that flows the same amount of CFM @ X amount of PSI?? I'm not saying any turbo will do because it doesn't matter which size turbo you get they will all flow different CFM's @ the same PSI at the same RPMs? Make sense? A lot of variables will come into play here. You wan't to find a turbo that flows X amount @ 7psi like the SC'r and be in the turbo's most efficient range. You can look @ turbo maps which I doubt some people will not know hot to read on here because lack of turbo knowledge etc.

Lets say on my Supra IE: I boost my 6766 Turbo @ 18psi and make 600hp @ the wheels? Now lets say I slap on a smaller turbo like a 6266 and boost it @ 18psi.
Now the torque and hp curve will come on a few hundred RPM's sooner than the larger 6766 but the turbo only puts down 500hp @ 18psi so that's 100hp less then the larger 6766 at the same PSI level.

This means the larger turbo is forcing more air in at the same boost level as the smaller turbo.

Now in a perfect world lets say you get a turbo to match the SC'r for CFM's @ say 7psi. Both put out identical Horsepower.

The SC'R will put out it's peak HP # sooner than the turbo because you'll have to spool the turbo.
Now you're getting into a dyno graph and you can see where the torque and HP curves are on both turbo and sc'r and make your mind up what you consider is the most usable of both in the RPM range you'll be at most of the time.. But yes you will make more hp up top with a turbo than you will with a roots style SC'r.

Long story short the smaller turbo will come on sooner than the larger turbo and put out less hp @ the same PSI of the larger turbo. But the smaller turbo will be more efficient @ 7psi than the larger @ 7psi.

There's more to it than just slapping on a turbo and it putting out the same CFM as the SC'r.

Intercooler sizing and pressure drop, Intercooler piping sizing and routing, heat soak like any other engine N/A or Boosted, Down pipe and exhaust sizing...

There maybe some holes in this but forgive me as I'm at work and I'm going between this and other things lol
 
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i think im just going to buy some irizzotrilium plugs and a huge exhaust tip, maybe some fender vents, and see what kind of power gains i get, this turbo stuff is getting confusing
 
Correct if I am wrong.

I don't have any expierance with forced induction but is this true?


Small turbo makes 6 psi SOONER

Larger turbo makes 6 psi LATER​

The larger turbo will make it LATER and at HIGHER rpm then a smaller turbo will make it SOONER AT LOWER RPM.



Same theory goes for the SC. The turbo makes 6 PSI later into the RPM range till redline but a SC'r will make 6 psi at a lower rpm instantly as load is applied.




Can anyone confirm or denie?

Fixed


The turbo can also possibly be flowing more CFM then the super charger in the higher RPM's as well which could also create more HP.

You'll have to read a turbo map, Look @ CFM, and efficiency @ X amount of psi
 
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i think im just going to buy some irizzotrilium plugs and a huge exhaust tip, maybe some fender vents, and see what kind of power gains i get, this turbo stuff is getting confusing

Yeah, after following this thread Im thinking now Ill just stay stock. :thumb: Maybe get a K&N intake and regear. With 210k on my od, I shouldnt even be thinking about forced induction before doing some engine and trans work
 
I think I'll take the plunge on the manifold and downpipe in a few months (maybe next year?). I'm getting married, plus I started a new job, so I have no time right now :-( I'll provide my own turbo, and probably use a Tial 38mm wastegate.

Plus I still have other parts that I need to install before I start getting more stuff... B&M trans cooler, timing belt and components, etc. need to get installed.

This may be a dumb question, but where is the MAF sensor located in their kit?
 
I think I'll take the plunge on the manifold and downpipe in a few months (maybe next year?). I'm getting married, plus I started a new job, so I have no time right now :-( I'll provide my own turbo, and probably use a Tial 38mm wastegate.

Plus I still have other parts that I need to install before I start getting more stuff... B&M trans cooler, timing belt and components, etc. need to get installed.

This may be a dumb question, but where is the MAF sensor located in their kit?

Its not. Could be using a tuning computer and be map based
 
So I have a question . . . one of the main topics of this thread is tuning. Most saying you dont NEED to tune it but that it would make the system more efficient. What all does tuning involve? What makes it so difficult to tune?
 
So I have a question . . . one of the main topics of this thread is tuning. Most saying you dont NEED to tune it but that it would make the system more efficient. What all does tuning involve? What makes it so difficult to tune?

The fact that most OBD 2 cars today you can just hook up to a laptop and tune with a program like HP Tuners. Those programs pretty much give you full access to the PCM, including changing timing, fuel tables, deleting trouble codes, etc. The tuning software companies out there either won't or can't make anything for Toyota trucks. Not sure about cars. I know Tundras have the same issues in tuning that we do.
 

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