Electrical, starting issues

[WallyWest]

'02 Sport.

Had a few times where it would fail to start. Not like it tried but couldn't quite get there, but no crank at all. Let it sit a few and it would be fine. Discovered that the battery terminals were not so great, the negative was a quick release type that gripped ok, but the positive was not holding fast even cranked all the way down. And they were cheap flimsy things anyway.

So I temporarily shimmed the positive post with a bit of paperclip, had no issues for a few weeks. So today I replaced the terminals with decent clamp types that fit just fine. Went to start it up, nope.

The symptoms are it will have power when I get in, dash lights, beeps, electric motors under the hood doing their thing. But when I turn the key to ignition it dies. And at that point I don't have any power. In the past I had partial power, very dim flickering lights on the dash, but today after it failed to start I got nothing. Voltage at the battery is fine. Before, when it was the worst, I had to jump start it. That worked to get me home, and that's when I discovered the issue with the terminals.

So if it's not a loose, flaky connection at the battery, what next? Short in the starter? Everything seems fine until I try to start it.

 

[IBallEngineer]

'02 Sport.

Had a few times where it would fail to start. Not like it tried but couldn't quite get there, but no crank at all. Let it sit a few and it would be fine. Discovered that the battery terminals were not so great, the negative was a quick release type that gripped ok, but the positive was not holding fast even cranked all the way down. And they were cheap flimsy things anyway.

So I temporarily shimmed the positive post with a bit of paperclip, had no issues for a few weeks. So today I replaced the terminals with decent clamp types that fit just fine. Went to start it up, nope.

The symptoms are it will have power when I get in, dash lights, beeps, electric motors under the hood doing their thing. But when I turn the key to ignition it dies. And at that point I don't have any power. In the past I had partial power, very dim flickering lights on the dash, but today after it failed to start I got nothing. Voltage at the battery is fine. Before, when it was the worst, I had to jump start it. That worked to get me home, and that's when I discovered the issue with the terminals.

So if it's not a loose, flaky connection at the battery, what next? Short in the starter? Everything seems fine until I try to start it.

It is still most likely a connection issue, make sure the white wire to the engine bay fuse block is making a good connection too, especially since you changed the terminal. Make sure it isn't corroded inside, and check voltage even before you go to crank, but afterward to see of the voltage is going south, I bet it is.

 

[theesotericone]

Did you check the grounds to the block and frame? Sounds like a ground issue to me.

 

[WallyWest]

I went out this morning, didn't mess with anything under the hood, and it acted a bit different than before.

Had power to start with, turned the key to ON, but did NOT try to start it. Lights were on everything normal for a few seconds, then dead. I then hooked it up to my other car and tried to jump start it. Nothing, zero power in the 4Runner.

Where are all the ground connections I should check? I know about the short cable from battery to frame of course, that one is ok. But apparently I need to check all of them.

 

[TheDurk]

I went out this morning, didn't mess with anything under the hood, and it acted a bit different than before.

Had power to start with, turned the key to ON, but did NOT try to start it. Lights were on everything normal for a few seconds, then dead. I then hooked it up to my other car and tried to jump start it. Nothing, zero power in the 4Runner.

Where are all the ground connections I should check? I know about the short cable from battery to frame of course, that one is ok. But apparently I need to check all of them.

Try jumping with the negative jump cable clamped to the hook by the engine diagnostic plug instead of the battery. If that gives you a different result, you definitely have a ground issue.

I am no fan of clamp-on terminals. They usually lose their grip on the wire in no time, but you are breaking the record. They remain my first suspect. Any chance the cable insulation is somewhat in the way of the wire clamp? Are they really tight on both wire and post? If headlights are on high, is there any variation in the light if you wiggle those battery cables? Is there any sign of bubbling on the cable insulation? That would indicate corrosion on the cable underneath.

 

[GangsterOfLove]

Modern batteries fail in odd ways. I'd have your battery load tested or swap in a known good battery to see if anything changes.

 

[LarryDC]

Try jumping with the negative jump cable clamped to the hook by the engine diagnostic plug instead of the battery. If that gives you a different result, you definitely have a ground issue.

I am no fan of clamp-on terminals. They usually lose their grip on the wire in no time, but you are breaking the record. They remain my first suspect. Any chance the cable insulation is somewhat in the way of the wire clamp? Are they really tight on both wire and post? If headlights are on high, is there any variation in the light if you wiggle those battery cables? Is there any sign of bubbling on the cable insulation? That would indicate corrosion on the cable underneath.

Mine ('02 SR5) had a loose battery terminal. Clearly, a negative size terminal had been used on the positive side, leaving it loose. Taking a positive-side feed for my ham radio from that was going to contribute to failure. I replaced both sides with the appropriate quick fusion solder connectors. They have the solder built-in, and I've had no problems since. I also cleaned up the ground to frame connector nearby when I replaced the alternator (mean green).

The other place to look would be by the starter and those cable connections. I'd replace my starter and cable connections down there if I could reach them. It's in an awkward spot.

The OEM terminals and the battery holder, as far as I'm concerned, are lame. Next battery replacement, I'm going with an Odyssey and its battery holder. Given the awkwardness of the starter location and the poor quality of the OEM terminals, who knows what trouble you'll find.

 

[WallyWest]

I am no fan of clamp-on terminals.

I probably said that wrong. I meant that it clamps onto the battery post. The connection to the cables remained the same, I didn't cut anything or solder, I just unbolted the cables from the old terminals and bolted them onto the new. They were already terminated with the ring/eye type connectors.

I think the new terminals I got suck. They seemed solid enough, certainly more metal than the flimsy ones I had in there. But after I found nothing obviously wrong with the rest of the wiring I switched them back out with the old ones and it started right up. I got the color coded type, and I think the paint might have been a problem. It looked like all the contact points were clear of paint, but who knows. Bottom line, the problem I believe was originally caused by a loose positive terminal popped right back up with the new terminals. So screw Autozone, I'm going to order some nice heavy duty terminals with no paint from Amazon or something.

Mine ('02 SR5) had a loose battery terminal. Clearly, a negative size terminal had been used on the positive side, leaving it loose. Taking a positive-side feed for my ham radio from that was going to contribute to failure. I replaced both sides with the appropriate quick fusion solder connectors. They have the solder built-in, and I've had no problems since. I also cleaned up the ground to frame connector nearby when I replaced the alternator (mean green).

The other place to look would be by the starter and those cable connections. I'd replace my starter and cable connections down there if I could reach them. It's in an awkward spot.

The OEM terminals and the battery holder, as far as I'm concerned, are lame. Next battery replacement, I'm going with an Odyssey and its battery holder. Given the awkwardness of the starter location and the poor quality of the OEM terminals, who knows what trouble you'll find.

After checking all the cables I could find in there I agree with you. Some of them I have a hard time believing are OEM they're so pathetic. I feel like replacing all of them, but I'm probably too lazy. I did replace the battery negative ground, the short one. The ends seemed loose and it was like 16 gauge or something.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback guys. I'm going to drive it the way it is for a while just to make sure it's only the battery connections that caused the issue. Then I'm thinking of doing the big 3 upgrade and switching to good terminals at that point.

 

[ryanosmun]

im having a similar issue, was driving my 96 3.4 manual runner, it bogged down died and absolutely nothing when i turned the key, all lights, sounds, windows work inside but nothing happens at all with the engine when i turn the key. i tried jumping it and nothing changed, tried push starting to pop the clutch and nothing. i can rotate the pulley bolt and so i know the engine is fine plus the oil is new and full, radiator fluid still full and green. i get like one tiny click sound from where the starter is located so i dont think its a fuse issue...but im lost and dont know where to look now...