Emissions Issues and a Incompetent Dealer

[the_josh]

i have been having emissions issues for some years now, it all started with one year in mojave when i had to shorten my exhaust after it bent up backwards on a trail. well it was cut short at just the rights length to melt the plastic on the charcoal canister. so i eventually bought a used charcoal canister from Mikstang and installed it but the codes never went away. i managed to pass smog 2 years ago but this time around not so much, well according to the smog guys i pass on everything except for the readiness test, my ecu is showing 2 evap codes and the left and right codes for the cat efficiency.

I'm at this point where i just want to fix whatever problems are associated for one to pass smog and for two I'm tired of resetting the check engine light. i contacted my friend dan at toyota to help me cure these problems and he suggested to bring my truck into Toyota Town in stockton, ca. he personally know several people there and speaks very highly of them so i decided to make the trek yesterday.

Larry at Toyota Town worked on it yesterday for most of the morning running tests and he concluded that the evap canister itself is leaking as it could not hold pressure. after some several back and froths he said he checked everything on the emissions system and it came down to the evap box. I'm still uncertain as to why I'm getting the 2 cat codes of p0420 and p0430 but they didn't either since the codes at the current time are not in the computer.

so i agreed to replace the charcoal canister at the ungodly tune of $700. I'm just sick and tired of dealing with the emission issues, it hurts really bad to have to fork over that much for this stupid little issue but it has been plaguing me for 3 years now. i decided to leave the truck over night since it is a 3 hour round trip and they can just call me when its done.

i received a phone call this morning that its on back order and they don't have a foreseeable date of arrival. i really don't feel like driving 3 hours roundtrip to get the truck and to find out the part will be available in a few days so i decided to leave it and hopefully they will have better insight later this week...


has anyone had issues like this with the charcoal canister or having to replace major emission system parts?
__________________

 

[the_josh]

update:

since the part was on a backorder with no date in sight i sourced my own part from parts planets and had it shipped to toyota town in stockton.

the part arrived and they installed it and claimed they tested it according to the proper readiness procedure and it passed so i drive the 120 mile round trip for the second time to go get my truck. i pick up my truck, pay the $350 for labor and drive home. my truck sits for a few days before i get a chance to run the toyota readiness test. i perform the test from a cold start and it fails again now with 1 extra code...

i call toyota town and tell them this, they say to bring it back. i drive back for the 3rd 120 mile round trip to bring the truck back. i drop it off and ask for a courtesy vehicle and they provide me with a 2012 tacoma. i leave...

i get a call the next day saying that the warrantied used part i provided was failing the test and they should replace it with a brand new part. i un happily agree since this will cost me $560 (200 for the extra labor to remove and replace, 340 for the new part) so they replace the part and call me back and say that the evap system is perfect but now the cats are bad (already knew this) so they offer me a discounted rate of $1250 to replace both cats and with labor so i agree

(this point it has been a week since I've dropped the truck off for the second time)

i get a phone call on last wednesday from the service advisor and he says they are having a difficult time removing the exhaust manifolds and they will need to charge me a bit more in labor... a bit more in their mind is only $360! and i tell them absolutely not, i will not agree. they state they have been working on remove the exhaust manifolds for over 10 hours and that is a fair price. i still decline and state the price they quoted me of $1250 was for the job in its completion and there was no mention of hours, i know toyota has a guideline of how many hours each job takes and they base the job on that, if a job was supposed to take 4 hours and it only took 1 do they give the customer a refund for 3 hours labor? (he said nothing) and i continued by saying No, No they do not. therefore i will not accept this rate. he then stated he will discuss it with the manager and get back to me...

i heard nothing more about it


i received a phone call yesterday morning and my truck is ready for pickup. so i quit work early and pick up my wife and we drive the dreadful 120 mile round trip to stockton for the 4TH TIME....


i drop off my rental and go in and pay the $1990 bill (on top of the money i spent the last time) and put my belongings in the 4runner and drive off.


20 mins down the road my CHECK ENGINE light comes on, VSC TRAC and VSC OFF. at this point I'm just laughing because i am sooo incredibly angry now...

i call toyota town and talk to my service advisor and tell him the issue, he is surprised and he said to bring it back, he also said that the tech is gone for the day so it'll have to sit for more days now til he can look at it.


this morning i received a phone call from my service advisor and he tell me they located the problem (YOU LOCATED THE PROBLEM NOW????? FINALLY???? WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN DOING ALL THIS FREAKING TIME?????) he stated the purge lines are clogged and the purge canister is stopped full of charcoal beads. so the lines need to be replaced along with the purge canister... i asked how much it will cost and he returns with $380 (so now my bill is around $2800) he said that the tech is off work tomorrow so work will continue on thursday and it'll be ready by the weekend...

and thats where is stands now. i am so pissed off right now. if my truck was properly diagnosed in the very beginning the bill would be no where near where it is now. it has now come to light that the charcoal canister was never the problem at all. it was the lines... so i just forked over a additional $800 for 2 charcoal canisters. I'm snot sure what to do at this point but I'm not going down like this....


any thoughts?

 

[farmerjon]

Man. This is a stealership horror story, if I've ever heard one. Sorry to hear about your troubles, sure is rough having it so far away... and SO much $$ as well!

They say truth is stranger than fiction...

 

[t4r4life]

Sorry to hear that josh, but this is not acceptable, i would take it to the bbb if they dont make this right. also they need to refound you the money they charge you for their F up

 

[jdkilroy]

Unfortunately, we live in a world of technicians , not mechanics. Repair folks look at the customer complaint, read the OBD codes and if an answer comes up that seems to fit they pretty much follow a repair program of "if this then this" and a fair percentage of the time they get away with it. It is the rare mechanic today that understands the whole system and works through the problem in their own mind and arrives at their own notion of what the problem is. So when a answer evolves from the OBD codes, they have no reference to compare that solution to to see if it makes sense or if there are other possible answers. I don't know if you can be upset with them, its how they are trained today. There are a few really good mechanics out there who use the OBD info as a another source of information to add to their own thought process but I don't think these folks are the norm anymore.

Its unfortunate but your experience is actually pretty common.

I feel your frustration and I would definitely try to negotiate with the service manager and the dealership owner.

 

[vipergrhd]

S.o.b

Josh, It really bothers me so much when i hear stories like this,being a mechanic,technician,grease monkey etc. for the last 23 years this things is still happening you would think after all this years that it would be a lot easier to diagnose and repair cars nowadays. Let me say this without being a complete ass of my self but IMO Dan should be ***** slap for sending you out to Stockton when you have all this other dealership (Toyota) around you,Larry should be kick in the groin for all his mis diagnosis and charging you all this money and you should get smak by your wife for wasting all that gas,money,time etc. (just kidding) for dragging your ride all the way out to Stockton.

Let me just say that in the 23 years of wrenching i had my share of mistakes,mis-diagnosis etc.but i have learned my lesson and always double check and triple check every single car i work on,it is an unavoidable situation when you are faced with multiple problems and tend to jump the gun and let your writer sell more parts than what the car really needs,the codes that you see is just that a code it only points you to the area where the problem is and could be something else that is causing this issue it is best to always run test prior to any part replacement and check other related component that could cause the code to come up.

My advice for you is to keep your cool and call the manager of Stockton Toyota and tell him exactly what happened and point out the technicians mistake or mis-diagnosis if he gives you the cold shoulder treatment tell him you will forward this complaint to the BAR which will decide and conduct an investigation in how they handled this complaint and i could sense that you just might get some of your money back if BAR finds holes in there stories and claims just be patient my friend just go to the proper channels and you will get your point across.next time go to W.C Toyota or Dublin i'm sure they have some senior techs still working there i know for a fact that there are quite a few old timers (mechanic) in W.C :happens:

 

[stevec5000]

This kind of thing is why I do all my own maintenance. Why didn't you just replace the canister yourself?

 

[ironhippy]

This kind of thing is why I do all my own maintenance. Why didn't you just replace the canister yourself?

sounds like he did

well it was cut short at just the rights length to melt the plastic on the charcoal canister. so i eventually bought a used charcoal canister from Mikstang and installed it but the codes never went away.

 

[the_josh]

Josh, It really bothers me so much when i hear stories like this,being a mechanic,technician,grease monkey etc. for the last 23 years this things is still happening you would think after all this years that it would be a lot easier to diagnose and repair cars nowadays. Let me say this without being a complete ass of my self but IMO Dan should be ***** slap for sending you out to Stockton when you have all this other dealership (Toyota) around you,Larry should be kick in the groin for all his mis diagnosis and charging you all this money and you should get smak by your wife for wasting all that gas,money,time etc. (just kidding) for dragging your ride all the way out to Stockton.

Let me just say that in the 23 years of wrenching i had my share of mistakes,mis-diagnosis etc.but i have learned my lesson and always double check and triple check every single car i work on,it is an unavoidable situation when you are faced with multiple problems and tend to jump the gun and let your writer sell more parts than what the car really needs,the codes that you see is just that a code it only points you to the area where the problem is and could be something else that is causing this issue it is best to always run test prior to any part replacement and check other related component that could cause the code to come up.

My advice for you is to keep your cool and call the manager of Stockton Toyota and tell him exactly what happened and point out the technicians mistake or mis-diagnosis if he gives you the cold shoulder treatment tell him you will forward this complaint to the BAR which will decide and conduct an investigation in how they handled this complaint and i could sense that you just might get some of your money back if BAR finds holes in there stories and claims just be patient my friend just go to the proper channels and you will get your point across.next time go to W.C Toyota or Dublin i'm sure they have some senior techs still working there i know for a fact that there are quite a few old timers (mechanic) in W.C :happens:

thank you for your well composed response, much appreciated! well ill just take this as a lesson learned and stay closer. i tried using several local mechanics but that have been unable to diagnose the problems either thats what i decided to take it to a dealer (one i thought knew what it was doing.

yesterday my service advisor called me and told me that they are going to comp the $400 repair that are doing today as a way to apologize for all the trouble its been at this point, which definitely helps out, I'm glad they offered without me having to fight the point. i never take my vehicles into the dealer but this issue i just couldn't solve by myself, its been lurking since 2010 with these codes popping up every couple months so i just got to a point where i just wanted it done with and to move onto other things. on the other hand even though I've been completely frustrated with all the mis diagnosis at toyota town, the customer service has been great, it has pissed me off going back and forth but on the frontline my service advisor was stellar

This kind of thing is why I do all my own maintenance. Why didn't you just replace the canister yourself?

I've replace the canister twice already by my self and still couldn't solve the problem, after trying everything thats when i just gave up and brought it into a dealer

 

[nevada]

i thought emissions equipment was warranteed by mileage? or somehow different than the rest of the vehicle warranty.
for some reason, 100,000 miles, or 20 years comes to mind.
i cant remember where i read it now.

 

[the_josh]

i thought emissions equipment was warranteed by mileage? or somehow different than the rest of the vehicle warranty.
for some reason, 100,000 miles, or 20 years comes to mind.
i cant remember where i read it now.

The warranty is 8 years / 80,000 miles I'm at 8 years / 165,000 miles so I'm outta warranty unfortunately

 

[nevada]

The warranty is 8 years / 80,000 miles I'm at 8 years / 165,000 miles so I'm outta warranty unfortunately

thats the vehicle warranty, right?

im positive i read in a toyota pamphlet, maybe for our Hghlander...that emissions equipment carried a different/separate, and much longer warranty than the rest of the vehicle. its a federal/EPA thing or something. unfortunately the GF has that car, so i cant even double check.




its great they are covering this last repair, but i think they need to refund some of the other misdiagnosed repairs also.

 

[the_josh]

No that's the federal warranty, I've checked


Yes I do agree, I think they should cover more

 

[boondoggle]

I'm on The_josh's side (one of my favorite T4rs BTW) and hope the dealership takes a little more responsibility for the bad diagnosis.

If it were within the 80/80k I don't know if it would be a warranty issue though since it was caused by damage (melted charcoal filter while offloading?). Warranties don't generally cover damage.

Good luck Josh and happy trails!

 

[NorCalBorn]

Josh, by any chance could this all be a result of the initial blown engine years back and it's just finally reared it's ugly head? I ask b/c IIRC Phil (Medic83) has had his cats replaced recently @ OneToyota. Ask Blair or BlackWorksInc(Sorry bro, I forget your name right now) to go into the TIS and see what campaigns and recalls exist and whether or not they cover your engine swap.

*I mention the swap specifically b/c I've had Service Managers decline work when the engine didn't match up to the vin.

Shane

p.s. Don't let the stress of this affect you, I know you got other stressing going on right now, let us know if you want any tech help. I'll be back in town next week.

vipergrhd (John), do you still have a login for TIS, mine is either blocked or needs to be changed by them b/c I am considered supplier status now.

p.p.s. viperhgrhd's close to your place (Antioch?) and Mr.Mike is the service manager (Still I think?) over @ Tracy Toyota where we held our meet-n-greet last year. Keep it close to home next time??

 

[DC runner]

Wow. Just Wow.

Man, I am so sorry for this. Not sure what you can do, honestly, as making a "good faith" mistake isn't against the law. Fixing cars is complicated, we know this. Unfortunately, dealerships are often able to hide negligence with honest mistake and it is practically impossible to prove otherwise.

I hope that the problem is, at least, fixed.

You might suggest contacting Toyota and giving a detailed account of your story. I don't know what good it will do, but a horrid dealer reflects bad on Toyota and they usually try to ensure a set level of competence.

Heck, you take a car to a affiliated dealer because the understanding is these mechanics have expert level training and understanding of the vehicle. If you want to have some piss poor fly by night mechanic mess up, you can find one for MUCH cheaper than a dealer.

That isn't an assumption. Every dealer I have ever known has advertised exactly that. Bring your car to US we are the experts.
Well, experts. I paid for your expertise and you failed, big time.

Good luck man. I really would contact Toyota and relate this story.

 

[NorCalBorn]

Josh, TMSA. Politely voice any concern(s) you might have and ask them to review the account. They'll ask for your VIN and it will give them access to the entire service history ever done on it at any dealership, ever.

 

[Twall]

i have been having emissions issues for some years now, it all started with one year in mojave when i had to shorten my exhaust after it bent up backwards on a trail. well it was cut short at just the rights length to melt the plastic on the charcoal canister. so i eventually bought a used charcoal canister from Mikstang and installed it but the codes never went away. i managed to pass smog 2 years ago but this time around not so much, well according to the smog guys i pass on everything except for the readiness test, my ecu is showing 2 evap codes and the left and right codes for the cat efficiency.

I'm at this point where i just want to fix whatever problems are associated for one to pass smog and for two I'm tired of resetting the check engine light. i contacted my friend dan at toyota to help me cure these problems and he suggested to bring my truck into Toyota Town in stockton, ca. he personally know several people there and speaks very highly of them so i decided to make the trek yesterday.

Larry at Toyota Town worked on it yesterday for most of the morning running tests and he concluded that the evap canister itself is leaking as it could not hold pressure. after some several back and froths he said he checked everything on the emissions system and it came down to the evap box. I'm still uncertain as to why I'm getting the 2 cat codes of p0420 and p0430 but they didn't either since the codes at the current time are not in the computer.

so i agreed to replace the charcoal canister at the ungodly tune of $700. I'm just sick and tired of dealing with the emission issues, it hurts really bad to have to fork over that much for this stupid little issue but it has been plaguing me for 3 years now. i decided to leave the truck over night since it is a 3 hour round trip and they can just call me when its done.

i received a phone call this morning that its on back order and they don't have a foreseeable date of arrival. i really don't feel like driving 3 hours roundtrip to get the truck and to find out the part will be available in a few days so i decided to leave it and hopefully they will have better insight later this week...


has anyone had issues like this with the charcoal canister or having to replace major emission system parts?
__________________

Same thing happened to mine exept it only melted the hose that's closest to the exhaust. Do y'all think i could just replace the hose?