LandCruiser
New member
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Encourage or discourage my t4r TE Purchase!
- Thread starter FiReBReTHa
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We're from the Internet and we're here to help.
LandCruiser
New member
I will add that mine came with KDSS. At the time it was the ONLY one I could get. I've taken it up some moderate trails like Black Bear and Georgia pass.
I also have a mountain cabin on a rutted fire road in WY that's covered in some kind of shit (snow, mud, logs) most of the year.
Mine is lifted and KDSS hasn't interfered with off road performance under any of those conditions and feels more planted on road.
I thought one of the reasons the Pro doesn't have KDSS is because it would make it harder to install the suspension upgrades at port, which is supposed to be a quick drop in job, and not because TRD/Toyota chose to leave it out for whatever performance reason (as if a mild factory lift would change anything).
I also have a mountain cabin on a rutted fire road in WY that's covered in some kind of shit (snow, mud, logs) most of the year.
Mine is lifted and KDSS hasn't interfered with off road performance under any of those conditions and feels more planted on road.
I thought one of the reasons the Pro doesn't have KDSS is because it would make it harder to install the suspension upgrades at port, which is supposed to be a quick drop in job, and not because TRD/Toyota chose to leave it out for whatever performance reason (as if a mild factory lift would change anything).
catastrofe
New member
Every additional system will require some type of maintenance. For example, a 4WD system has an additional differential compared to 2WD. That differential requires maintenance and is a potential source of mechanical failure.
Since the OP's original post basically states he won't have heavy off-roading, KDSS doesn't seem warranted. Just my opinion, which is what the OP requested. . .
sandcrawler
Senior Member
apologies to OP for derailing his thread with this. and to be clear, i'm not fomenting a pissing match between you and myself. it's just that you state you're trying to inject "some balance" into an "obsession with KDSS" but i find that, honestly, the "obsession" is quite the contrary, with ill-informed and ill-conceived (not you, per se) KDSS-bashing generating nonsense as seen here in this very thread. (i always recall a member who hadn't even yet purchased a 5G, but had edited his signature to read it would be "definitely WITHOUT KDSS". ok, yeah, whatever.) the FUD surrounding KDSS is very real.
we're both smart enough to know that a lift isn't incompatible with KDSS, despite what Toyota says. similarly, Apple tells me i can't install a 3rd party SSD in my Mac, but that isn't true either. in both cases, it's corporate CYA. and in the case of the Pro, it's not the reason Toyota dropped KDSS when they went to production. i mean, honestly, it is simply not credible that a 1" front-only lift would create any genuine compatibility/reliability problems that would require onerous endurance testing on Toyota's part. the decision to drop KDSS as it was featured on the prototypes was simply due to marketing, product mix, and maximal margin considerations.
same with dropping the sunroof. weight savings? off the roof? to accomplish what? counterbalance the nosebleed-inducing change in the vehicle's center of gravity due to the Pro's 1" front-only lift? not credible, either.
i honestly kind of admire your Pollyanna perspective that Toyota set out to build "the best" when it made the TRD Pro but, i'm sorry, it's really just wishful thinking. in truth, they set out to build the best low-volume, high-margin 4Runner they could. and to do so it was necessary to make careful considerations of the existing product mix and pricing tier — and make compromises to hit the necessary mark.
true, some manufacturers build supercars; totally unattainable by the masses, but inspiring a halo effect of desirability that elevates the entire brand and product lineup. that, however, is not what the TRD Pro is.
the Pro is all about marketing, and of course Toyota knew it'd get a lot of press out of it. they also knew that auto reviewers — both pro and bro — have their heads up their collective asses, so they'd truthfully not receive the kind of critical consideration you imagine. here's just one such cherry from the Pro intro, where the reviewer says it has the "XREAS system and front and rear remote reservoirs"... nope. not even, buddy. there's scores of this misinformation in nearly every review. (not just of the Pro; all models... and all makes, for that matter.) Toyota knew damn well that dropping KDSS had just about zero downside for them outwardly, but it'd be all upside inwardly as it'd help keep their margins high and healthy.
i know you had a bad KDSS experience on a friend's vehicle. i get it. i respect it.
i don't relish sounding like/playing the role of the KDSS evangelist here, but i do find it a bit bizarro world that the refrain tends to bash KDSS, which is one of the true high-end features that trickled down to the 4Runner from the GX and Land Cruiser. whether or not KDSS is the right choice for anyone's needs and personal application is entirely up to them, but it is what it is.
Simpleman74
New member
"TRD Pro has Xreas which provide greater articulation"?
HUH
HUH
sandcrawler
Senior Member
Jasalvas
New member
I purchased a TE over a TEP or TRDP because it's what I could afford. Prices on the TRDPro were way over priced, not many TEP's in the area. Found the Magnetic Grey TE that the dealer was willing to work with me on. Had leather seats installed, molding it out Slowly to what I want. Find what makes you happy. You can't go wrong with a 4Runner, new or used.
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intervivos
New member
2014 TE non-KDSS here. The best vehicle is a simple one....while T4R's are not simple, no need to make them more complicated on purpose.
Do it!
(and if toyota is listening delete crawl control, KDSS, ATRAC and all the other stuff and give more ground clearance and a center locking diff for SR5 or TE = winner!)
wfo9
New member
Tr4 owners are a diverse crew... but I'm in your camp, but I think you meant to say... a Front locker. They all come with a center diff lock.
Additionally, ATRAC is not something to replace with a front locker. You really need something that is between open and locked up front for the avg user running IFS. A front locker just opens things up to so much user error on these trucks. I hardly trust myself with it... And I know toyota would never put one on.
What I really want is some weight reduction and high clearance bumpers and fenders for more tire.... It is not going to happen, but we can dream.
Swampmonger
New member
Sounds like some folks here want my Jeep. 4.0L I6, 6spd manual, manual transfer case, manual locks and windows, AM/FM radio, 2H/4H/4L, front and rear lockers. Done.
Swampmonger
New member
There's no such thing as a "simple" 5th gen 4Runner--KDSS or not.
wfo9
New member
I respect your view and agree with some of it... But if you read my posts I never really bash KDSS. I always say there are pros and cons to it and it depends on the individual. Many people harp on it being the best thing since sliced bread with no negatives.... That is simply not true. It is great for some use cases, not all. Overall, it is pretty darn good, but also something that most people would never miss and may actually be much better off without in the long run.
I've literally had face to face conversations with people where this statement was made. "I went on the 4runner forum and everyone said KDSS was what I needed, I had no idea what it really was. I wish I would have done more research and known what I was getting into"
KDSS is a double edged sword just like everything else. There is hardly anything that is all positive. I still think Toyota deleted KDSS from the Pro for better reasons than profit. It's just not that good at what they targeted the pro for and the road manners are 100% adequate without it. That is my opinion and you are welcome to try to change it... but I doubt you will LOL
I will freely admit I'm an offroad enthusiast with a bias towards hard core wheeling and mechanical simplicity, so I specifically don't need or want KDSS. That is not most t4r owners, though....I can totally see why people want KDSS and I can also see why people don't. There is no single correct answer. That is the only point I'm really trying to make.
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wfo9
New member
Pretty much, but have it made as a 2016+ by Toyota and I would pretty much buy it without ever seeing any other details.
wfo9
New member
See your point, but they are actually pretty darn simple for a 2010+. Just remove the ADD and put on manual locking hubs and it is mostly tech from the 1980s.
Swampmonger
New member
My first Toyota was a 1987 4x4 Pickup. Add manual lockers to a 2010+ 4Runner and you still have a vehicle 1000x nicer and more modern than that pickup.
(My 2nd Toyota was a 1979 Corolla that came with my ex-wife in 1992. We had to spray carb cleaner down the throat just to get it started.
)Eeeeexactly. If people don't like the high-end innovation and engineering trickling-down from Land Cruiser and Lexus, then get the rolling wind tunnel that is a Jeep.
Swampmonger
New member
Hey now. Be nice. :thumb: :cheers:
e60ral
Banned
if the best vehicle is a simple one, why even get a TE? Why not an SR5? If we are afraid of things failing, why are you encouraging he buy a vehicle that has an e-locker and all the fancy computer controls that are just sitting there waiting to fail and cost money.
Just something else to maintain
I still am not following your statement “just something else to maintain”. What do you believe there is to “maintain” with KDSS?
Here’s the thread KDSS Maintenance
I still am not following your statement “just something else to maintain”. What do you believe there is to “maintain” with KDSS?
Here’s the thread KDSS Maintenance
intervivos
New member
If an SR5 with a factory locker is what I would prefer hands down over the TE electronic wizard controls. For me a locker is necessary....and factory lockers work great if you use them. Let them sit and they fail.
This is what I would really recommend....if anybody knows where I can get one (LHD preferred) in the USA let me know! LandCruiser 70 Workmate Troop Carrier Specifications
