Engineers?

[BlackWorksInc]

I'm an engineer. Been at it for 28 years. I design high pressure hydraulic systems.

Let me give you a piece of profound information. You must promise never to forget it, especially in your third year when you think you know everything.

Ready? "Your engineering degree, regardless of discipline, will just tell your prospective employers that you have the ability to learn and solve problems logically."

That's it. In four years, everything you learn is only preparation for the next phase of learning.

My son will graduate with his BSME next week with a 3.8 GPA. He starts on his MBA in May.

Good luck and if you have any detailed questions please ask.

It still boggles my mind that I a lowly 2yr degree plebeian have to walk an engineer through something as simple as the theory of changing a tire on a vehicle.

There's been a few engineers I've met who literally could not figure that out and I had to lead them to it. I couldn't understand how they spent 4+ years in school and couldn't apply the fundamental principles of torque, fulcrum, leverage, ect. to reverse engineer how to attach a wheel to a vehicle, what tool you'd need, and how to lift the vehicle, and how to put all that equipment in the vehicle.

Sometimes I wonder if all that really separates me from most engineers is a lack of debt and a fancy paper. (No offense meant to you guys, just that "critical thinking" and problem solving abilities seem to be sorely lacking in most Engineers I have met, not to mention most 4yr degree holders in my experience compared to my humble AS in Automotive Technology, aka Grease Monkey's Degree ).

To the OP, I'd heed [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] words well. All the math, the physics, the technical stuff that will get thrown your way means absolutely nothing if you can't figure out how to use it. By that I don't mean solving for X, a computer can do that for you if need be; linear problem solving has it's purpose but it does not define your abilities. You need to develop and exercise the critical thinking and flexible thinking beyond most of your peers. The ability to simply look at an assembly and derive it's function, assembly, and how to improve/repair/alter it's purpose to suit your design requirements is something that is extremely valuable in not just Engineering but life in general. Most people fail to realize how easily even the most complex of objects/problems can be broken down into simple core components and functions, and from that understanding how to approach a problem even when you don't have exact meausurements, schemcatics, instructions, ect. becomes very apparent.

 

[-JD-]

^Never discount the value of experience vs education.

 

[Buckaroo]

This isn't really about 4runners but I've noticed that this forum seems to have a really high concentration of engineers. I'm a senior in high school and am planning on pursuing a degree in mechanical engineering at one of the 6 colleges I've applied to and am wondering if anyone has any advice for me going into college.

So post up of you are an engineer or have anything to tell me!

Did the Engineer undergrad and followed with an MBA after working for a few years. Ended up in Operations Management. Served me well for 40 years and provided a good income to take care of my family.

You can't beat a technical undergrad and Engineering is a great choice.....but, it is a difficult discipline. Having an aptitude for math and the ability to visualize and solve technical problems are keys to success. My advice is to start your first semester figuring you're not worthy and work like hell. Bear down, focus and see how you do - rather than getting behind the eight ball from the get-go, better to see you can slack off a little and still get by. When you get out, understand that you really don't know anything....you've just learned how to think and approach problems - it's up to you from there.

Good luck.....

Buckaroo

 

[MtnT4R]

I should have done this.

You probably still can- I don't think there's a time limit? Could be wrong though, I haven't been anywhere near a college campus for about ten years now.

Definitely worth checking out if you might be interested. In my humble opinion you should never stop learning, regardless of age.

 

[USKTog]

OP,
There are a lot of great replies so far! One more thing I have learned over the years, that evades many:

"ASK FOR HELP when you hit a road-block."

By this I quite literally mean asking for help!

If you complete your ME degree and go out into the workplace, there will come a day when you are faced with a situation where you just have no clue (either where to start or how to overcome a certain situation).

WHEN that situation arrives, stop! Gather the troops, explain the foundation, the end-state goal and then ask for ideas on how to solve the situation. Write the information down and just keep listening.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ohio_Steve]

From way at the other end of the engineering career, let me add a couple pennies worth of advice, which happens to reflect [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]'s input.

I a retired from a career in mechanical engineering, and worked as draftsman, product designer, and senior product designer for Rockwell (Now Delta power tools), and RIDGID.

I worked with an endless supply of recent graduate MEs who thought they knew everything there was to know, and had such huge chips on their shoulder, I'm amazed they could move around. Don't be that guy. People in assembly that have been building your product their entire adult life really do know how to improve the product. Listen to them. Customers who take the time to offer suggestions know what they want, and it is probably what the rest of your customers want, too. Listen to them.

And that old guy at the end of the hall that has been in the same job since high school might not just be dead weight. Maybe he likes what he does, is good at it, and isn't interested in climbing the ladder. Listen to me, err, him.

And most of all, make amazing things!

 

[WiscoDisco]

Wow I never imagined all the advice I would get! Thank you so much!

To answer a couple questions I applied to and their ranking for me 3.university of Iowa,4.Minnesota,1.Wisconsin Madison, 1.Michigan,5.Arizona state, and 2.Ohio state. So far I've been admitted to Iowa and Arizona state(not really sure if I should go there, would be very hard to focus on my studies)

Math and science- I have a strength for both, am currently in calc 2 (it's kicking my ass, first math class I've ever had to study for). However I didn't just randomly choose engineering, my school is part of the Project Lead the Way program(basically engineering classes that can get you college credit)and I really enjoyed those classes. I've also been to a couple engineering camps and really enjoyed them. Both my parents are engineers, my dad went on to become a patent attorney, mom still works as mechanical engineer. Kind of a tangent here but it seems like parents who are engineers love pushing engineering on their students

I've also noticed that many of the kids in my classes don't know how to change a tire and don't really feel how things work the way I feel like I do.

Dream job for me would probably be to work for a car manufacturer (Toyota or **p) I'm also really interested in joining either the Baja or the formula team wherever I may attend.

 

[AKmoney]

OP,

There was a similar thread here a couple years ago. Here's the link, along with a quote from my post there.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/179127-college-talk-5.html#post1823488

Here are some random thoughts from a UC school BSEE graduate (1995) who's starting to get some grey hairs:

Your first two years as an undergraduate will probably be spent taking "weeder" classes like math, physics, chemistry and the odd GE like history. Most of these classes will have nothing to do with any specific major (EE vs. ME, etc, they make all engineering majors take 'em). You don't get to the "fun stuff" until your junior year when you start taking upper division electives. Ask yourself: is it really necessary to be spending big bucks at a research university taking "the basics" or would it be better to get them out of the way at a community college and transfer in as a junior? Only you can answer this, but the cost for the "college experience" is high, especially these days. Remember, at the end of the day your education is an investment and like any investment, you want to maximize your return.

Getting a Masters degree in engineering is of limited value based on my experience. It will help you land a job but once you've got several years experience under your belt its value diminishes. That being said, if you can earn a masters as part of a 4+1 program that's probably the best way to do it. Alternatively, get your employer to help pay for a masters later on (but understand working full time while going to school is no easy task).

There are *no women* in engineering. It's a sausage fest. This applies to school and to "real life" 20 years after you graduate. It won't be like the rest of campus with hot chicks everywhere. You won't be in those classes..mostly. You probably knew this (or maybe you didn't).

Get involved. Network. Meet contacts/connections any way you can. This is how you'll score your first "real job" or internship or whatever and it's what will open doors for you professionally.

Life in the cubicle after graduation isn't glamorous. You'll work 60+ hours a week on a regular basis for "The Man". He gets rich and you don't.

I made the transition into technical sales. After 8 years in a cube I couldn't stand being under fluorescent lamps any longer so I went into the field. Best move I ever made: I don't work long hours, I make very good money and every so often my company sends me to an event called President's Club which is an all-expense-paid trip to the Grand Wailea resort on Maui. You'll NEVER get to do anything like that if you stay in engineering, BUT having the engineering background enabled me to make this transition.

Note: I considered going back to get an MBA but after sitting in on several information sessions at my local universities (UCI, Chapman) I don't think the $100K they each charge is worth it. You can get the basics down by taking business classes for free online (from Wharton business school of all places) at Coursera.org.

 

[amalik]

I should have changed from chemical to software engineering and then headed out to Silicon Valley when I graduated in '93.

I hate life's "shoulda"s.

 

[Mariner]

Also don't pay much attention to grades. Grades are completely stupid and pointless so don't fret about them, imo anything over a C grade is just wasted effort haha

THIS. I tried my heart out in school because that's just the type of student I always had been. Then I had friends that cheated or sluffed their way through 4 years of the academy just to graduate with me and make 50k MORE a year than me.

Joke was on them though because they all went into the oil field. Now that sucks and they're on tiny little tug boats while my union pay has gotten better.

But for real.. just get the grades you need and have fun.

 

[AKmoney]

But for real.. just get the grades you need and have fun.

In the program I graduated from (UCSB EE) we were required to maintain a minimum GPA during the first two years before we were admitted into full major status. It was their way of weeding out the non-hackers. It wasn't all that high; something like 2.85 GPA, but the classes were tough. Much tougher than anything in high school.

The counselors there said getting a C was honorable, but honorable wasn't good enough.

If you intend to get an MBA some day, having a better GPA helps.

 

[Ron4RNevada]

I probably don't have too much to add for you as I have been around too long:

I still have my 1966 edition of "Machinery's Handbook". My calculators were slide-rules. All electronics were still vacuum tubes.

Through the years I was continually going back to school or seminars to get caught up as the world changed.

It's an exciting life.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Welding Engineer over here!

Yeah, WE BSE's are a thing. Graduated 3 years ago.

Anywho, I'd like to encourage you as you go into this:

When lives depend on your work later on:
0. Your integrity as an engineer is more inportant than the paycheck.
1. Others' feedback is useful, consider all of it.
2. Make decisions and do not second guess yourself, just validate your work.
3. Your integrity is more important than a manager's favor.
4. Teamwork is essential. Lead, but also follow.
5. Play to your strengths.
6. Never be the smartest person in the room.
7. Never try to sound smart in a room that meets note 6.
8. Leave work at work. Only work outside of work when necessary to meet notes 0,2, and 4.
9. Be humble.
10. The answer 'it depends' is justifiable in most discussions.
11. Never BS your work.

In my opinion these ^^ are the most important things to remember when you land that engineering job.

To many times I've seen engineers implement a new system or do a major change to an existing system without taking the time to discuss the current and possible future issues with those that will be using or operating that system on a day to day basis.

Not proud to say it but I'm an engineering dropout. So my advice is keep your parting to a minimum and just worry about the basics. Building your 4runner, buying the latest stereo equipment, and pleasing the GF can all wait until you land that engineering job. Make just enough money while your in school to cover the basics, that's it. Keep your debt to a minimum so you don't HAVE to earn that dollar until after school. The rest of the time should be focused on your studies, making connections with other engineers/companies, and some down time for yourself. There's a lot of other good advice in this thread that you should also at least consider.

While I do make a good living as a control room operator for a power plant (stationary engineer, if you want to call it that), I do regret not sticking with the program and getting my ME.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I made the transition into technical sales. After 8 years in a cube I couldn't stand being under fluorescent lamps any longer so I went into the field. Best move I ever made: I don't work long hours, I make very good money and every so often my company sends me to an event called President's Club which is an all-expense-paid trip to the Grand Wailea resort on Maui. You'll NEVER get to do anything like that if you stay in engineering, BUT having the engineering background enabled me to make this transition.

This is actually how I ended up. Graduated with Information Systems degree from school of engineering at UCSC then went into IT solutions implementation then technical solutions sales. Because of this I don't really consider myself an engineer but the engineering background certainly helps.

Like everyone else says study up on your math. It's all uphill from here. I believe most students who finish multivariable Calc II with a high B or A do go on to succeed in the classes that follow.

 

[WiscoDisco]

I believe most students who finish multivariable Calc II with a high B or A do go on to succeed in the classes that follow.

Unfortunately right now I'm pretty far from that. Studying hard for math classes and meeting with a tutor is all new territory for me so I'm hoping my gradet will come up

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Unfortunately right now I'm pretty far from that. Studying hard for math classes and meeting with a tutor is all new territory for me so I'm hoping my gradet will come up

Wish you the best of luck.

 

[Stangboy]

Engineers? Those are the guys who ride in the cabooses and wave at people, right? LOL
Like a few above have said, listen to the people who have to use whatever it is you're building. 20+ years in the petrochemical industry(operations side), and I've had my share of new engineers who thought they knew everything. Kinda fun breaking them in... LOL. Seriously, listen to the people who have to deal with your decisions every day. It'll go smoother, trust me.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Engineers? Those are the guys who ride in the cabooses and wave at people, right? LOL
Like a few above have said, listen to the people who have to use whatever it is you're building. 20+ years in the petrochemical industry(operations side), and I've had my share of new engineers who thought they knew everything. Kinda fun breaking them in... LOL. Seriously, listen to the people who have to deal with your decisions every day. It'll go smoother, trust me.

But, they know that if that put that one bolt buried under 6 panels, 4 brackets, 3 modules, and 2 wiring harnesses that it will keep the technician on his toes!

 

[SAR_Runner]

When you complete an engineering degree you only need to take one year of classes to get your MBA. Its a killer deal

When I was selecting my final semester of classes I was told by the professor if I took one more 500 level math class I would have a math minor... still didnt take the class. not worth it.

 

[MtnT4R]

When I was selecting my final semester of classes I was told by the professor if I took one more 500 level math class I would have a math minor... still didnt take the class. not worth it.

haha I was in the same situation with economics. just ONE MORE class. sorry, not worth the torture. and then Keynsian economics went right down the toilet along with the economy.