Expect The Offroad Community to Leave Jeep and Join Toyota!

[gotopless]

Get ready to have a lot more off road enthusiasts join the Toyota bandwagon; Jeep is considering unibody design, smaller engines, more gears in the trans, and a fully aluminum body on the 2017 Jeep Wrangler.

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles CEO Sergio Marchionne said;

"Such significant changes to the hot-selling SUV would likely mean leaving its longtime, historic production site in Toledo, Ohio"

In his strongest comments to date about Fiat Chrysler’s future plans for the Wrangler, Marchionnne (CEO) hinted strongly the next-generation version is likely to be fundamentally different from the venerable off-roader available today.

The next Wrangler, due in 2017, has to lose weight and be powered by smaller engines than its current 3.6-liter V-6 engine in order to help Fiat Chrysler meet stricter U.S. fuel economy rules.



http://www.autonews.com/article/201...to-aluminum-for-next-wrangler-body-marchionne

2017 Jeep Wrangler may be built on aluminum unibody | Digital Trends

Jeep Wrangler One Step Closer to Aluminum, Production Could Leave Toledo ? News ? Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

Next Jeep Wrangler could have aluminum body

 

[Stifler]

unibody wont happen unless they plan on making it a solid roof vehicle. I am all for progression as long as they dont screw with the iconic look and dont add IFS.

 

[tH1e swiN1e]

Ive heard IFS is definitely in the cards....

 

[STX4Runner]

Yeah, progression is nice as long as they don't totally forget their roots. Despite all the Jeep bashing on here I think the new Wranglers are great, and their addition of the 4 door model was genius. I would seriously consider one if I ever left a 4Runner. But man, don't go turning it into a unibody, IFS shell of its former self a la the Nissan Pathfinder. I guess that's what can happen when your red blooded American car manufacturer is now controlled by a European car maker.

 

[KidVermicious]

Haven't they already said IFS is a practical certainty and they're considering a fully independent design? I thought I read that somewhere.

The majority of Wranglers Jeep sells are not sold to guys who intend to wheel them hard. Just like 4runners, the majority are sold to guys (and girls) looking for the image. As long as Jeep provides the image, they will make money selling Wranglers, and the hard core guys will learn how to SAS just like Toyota guys have. If I were Jeep, I'd have to be looking hard at the insane popularity of fully independent UTVs and SBSs, and thinking that's where my money is - turn the Wrangler into a crash-tested road legal full size side-by-side.

 

[KidVermicious]

But man, don't go turning it into a unibody, IFS shell of its former self a la the Nissan Pathfinder. I guess that's what can happen when your red blooded American car manufacturer is now controlled by a European car maker.

To be fair, that's not Jeep's fault. That's Dodge/Chrysler's fault for buying Jeep and then running their entire enterprise into the ground.

 

[STX4Runner]

To be fair, that's not Jeep's fault. That's Dodge/Chrysler's fault for buying Jeep and then running their entire enterprise into the ground.

Unfortunately so true.

 

[gotopless]

unibody wont happen unless they plan on making it a solid roof vehicle. I am all for progression as long as they dont screw with the iconic look and dont add IFS.

The auto maker is being very good at keeping their lips closed tight, but it is rumored that the Wrangler will be moving to IFS but still look rugged.
In fact, some have said they will design the Wrangler platform closer to the Cherokee platform. Jeep has stated they cannot sell 19,000 Wranglers a month to only offroaders. If they want to stay alive, they will have to change. I just hope Toyota sticks with what they have been doing!

 

[mdogg]

I'm not an engineer by any means, but aren't those some big items that have to be hashed out VERY early in the design phase of a new generation?

BOF vs. Unibody
Aluminum vs. Steel
SA vs. Independent suspension
engine size/displacement/power-adder

I wonder if the decisions have already been made, and they're just slow rolling to see the public reaction. Either that or I can imagine it will be delayed in the name of "getting it right." Should be interesting to see the result. Should be even more interesting to compare it to the next gen 4runner that will likely surface within a year of the Jeep, showcasing different manufacturers' responses to the issues and demands. [An 8-year cycle for the 5th gen would put the 6th gen at MY 2018 in 2017]

 

[1engineer]

I'm not an engineer by any means, but aren't those some big items that have to be hashed out VERY early in the design phase of a new generation?


I wonder if the decisions have already been made, and they're just slow rolling to see the public reaction.

1. Yes. If, and that's a big if, (remember the "publications" you guys speak of are in the business to sell magazines, not in the business of getting the information right) Jeep is coming out with IFS or unibody then that decision was made close to 10 years ago.

2. How does an engineer determine when a secret will be known? Simple linear regression. You start out with say, two people knowing the "unibody" secret. Over time, more people are brought in to the secret but it is contained to that group. Statistically, given enough time, some yahoo will be brought in to the group that is unable to keep their mouth shut and the secret starts to leak. Once that happens, you have to shift to exponential functions as it will grow like a wildfire. To beat that model, you have to be deceptive and plant disinformation so when the secret finally breaks out, it is the wrong information! Don't ask me how I know this information...

 

[KidVermicious]

A friend of mine speculates that the rerelease of the 70 series in Japan is a stalking horse, and Toyota is watching the reaction to that and waiting for Jeep to announce an IFS Wrangler. His theory is that Toyota anounces a limited run of the 70 series in the US immediately after Jeep announces the IFS Wranger. If it was a small enough run, it wouldn't affect their CAFE numbers too badly, and they could totally set their own price, so it makes sense on that level.

That's not the sort of game Toyota normally plays, but rereleasing the LC70 in Japan was out of character for them too. It's an interesting theory.

 

[phillyd2]

Sad to hear, if true. But 95%+ of Jeep buyers will never notice the difference and will actually be happy with the highway handling.

 

[MStudt]

I seriously doubt this is going to be a reason for people to dump their Jeeps for Toyota's. Jeeps have been on unibody's in the past, and that's nothing people aren't dealing with already. The only thing is bringing aluminum into the picture. Which IMO is still nothing to worry about, and I don't think people are going to let it stop them. Just like with the XJ's, unibody kits will be made and sold. However, it's going to severely limit the amount about people that will be able to weld these unibody stiffeners onto the frame. Welding aluminum is nothing like welding steel, and shop are going to make a killing on this. Aluminum is nothing that I would worry about. I won't be afraid to run an aluminum frame with stiffeners. Aluminum can be just as strong as steel and more forgiving.

Just my $.02.

 

[Misterquad]

I am not seeing those changes to Jeep as a negative. It will improve their bottom line. And I don't see it converting Jeep lovers over to Toyota enthusiasts.

1) Jeep is an icon and image. It is very visceral.
2) Nissan converted the Pathfinder from a boxy, truck on frame to unibody, egg-shaped car and sales increased 8-9%.
3) Most (most) Jeep buyers don't know the difference between IFS v. SA or what is a unibody.
4) I drove my wife's JK last night and it drives terrible compared to my 4Runner. But she won't give it up for any Toyota.
5) JK owners see Toyotas as mom mobiles.

If Jeep keeps the visual look and improves the ride and mileage then sales will improve. Off-roaders are such a smaller niche that they will gain much more than they ever lose.

 

[perkdog258]

HA HA Love to read these post. I always scan down for the voice of reason....1engineer.

As others have said, my wife is a long time Jeep fan and I doubt the changes rumored would stop her from buying another. After falling in love with your 4runner would you bail to get something else if they went to an Aluminum frame? Before you answer that remember that the F150 is doing that and I bet there will be more to follow. So it is not hard to imagine that Toyota will do the same soon enough.

:behindsofa:

 

[LandCruiser]

Daimler bent over Chrysler and had their fun.

Now Sergio "Mussolini" Marchionne is jumping balls deep into their sloppy seconds.

RAM is one of the few profitable divisions and as a limp wristed European he has yet to figure out how to screw things up there, except to sell wheezy Eurovans under the RAM Pro name to tradesmen who are used to having V8s.

Dodge is a collection of ancient cars developed in the 2000s with minor facelifts and crappy FIATs rebodied and rebranded like the Dart. I'm sure the Hellcat makes lots of noise and is super fast, but it doesn't sell when every Toyota and Honda in the price range destroys the FIAsler vehicles.

FIATs are either the very metrosexual 500 which will kill you if you hit anything bigger than a garbage can, or the 500L which is a Panda with Elephantiasis.

Jeep is dead. They have crap cars like the Patriot and Cherokee which are nothing more than CUV wagons. The Grand Cherokee is a QC mess and has lost its off road heritage ages ago. The Wrangler is the last IFS off roader on sale in the US today because we can't get 70 series Land Cruisers. I'm guessing old Mussolini will poll European hipsters and develop the "pop" Wrangler, which comes in colors inspired by the Tuscan electronic music scene, is a unit body convertible, and is front wheel drive.

We American taxpayers essentially got hosed because the Auto Unions and President stole our money and used it to bail out a failed corporation--partially due to a foreign takeover a decade ago.

There's a word for someone who does something twice and expects a different result.

 

[LandCruiser]

Also, Jeepers won't migrate to Toyota.

The 4runner is a mess of electronic safety systems, trick suspensions, and will be expensive to mod and lift the way Wrangler owners do.

Lift, lockers, and regear is a cheap process on a Wrangler.

 

[Misterquad]

HA HA Love to read these post. I always scan down for the voice of reason....1engineer.

As others have said, my wife is a long time Jeep fan and I doubt the changes rumored would stop her from buying another. After falling in love with your 4runner would you bail to get something else if they went to an Aluminum frame? Before you answer that remember that the F150 is doing that and I bet there will be more to follow. So it is not hard to imagine that Toyota will do the same soon enough.

:behindsofa:

I bought my first Toyota in 2008. Because I was in my 2002 Jeep TJ and following a Tacoma up Imogene in Ouray. The Tacoma ran fast and smoother plus he had more room. And that convinced me to buy my first Toyota. Toyota 4x4s have appealed to me since the first 4x4 pickup hit the market. But in 1981, the truck cost $10,000 and I was a college freshman making $5/hour.

But I will admit, I love the new orange colored Jeep and tried to talk my wife into trading for it last night. Because it brings back memories of my dad and him teaching me to drive his CJ in the riverbottom by our home in the 70's.

Do I care about aluminum parts versus steel? Not if they are properly designed. I never run out and buy a new design until it is proven. So, lets wait and see.

I embrace new materials and design changes for the most part.

 

[Stifler]

they have been sayin IFS for years.... I will believe it when I see it

 

[jrandom]

A friend of mine speculates that the rerelease of the 70 series in Japan is a stalking horse, and Toyota is watching the reaction to that and waiting for Jeep to announce an IFS Wrangler. His theory is that Toyota anounces a limited run of the 70 series in the US immediately after Jeep announces the IFS Wranger. If it was a small enough run, it wouldn't affect their CAFE numbers too badly, and they could totally set their own price, so it makes sense on that level.

A 70 series pickup/bedless would be the sh!t, probably not specifically what you are referring too but I thought I would derail this thread by saying how *****'n those happen to be