Expect The Offroad Community to Leave Jeep and Join Toyota!

[KidVermicious]

A 70 series pickup/bedless would be the sh!t, probably not specifically what you are referring too but I thought I would derail this thread by saying how *****'n those happen to be

So, your wife probably doesn't want me to mention that these guys are right here in Salt Lake, huh?

 

[MStudt]

Also, Jeepers won't migrate to Toyota.

The 4runner is a mess of electronic safety systems, trick suspensions, and will be expensive to mod and lift the way Wrangler owners do.

Lift, lockers, and regear is a cheap process on a Wrangler.

I left a Jeep for a 4runner.

Lifts, lockers, and regearing are very comparable in pricing to be honest. With every lift, lock, and gear you have multiple choices. Both can be lifted, locked, and geared on the cheap or with more investment. When you add in dumping a D35 and D30 the cost would actually be greater than lifting a 4runner.

 

[Vegas Island]

The only thing is bringing aluminum into the picture. Which IMO is still nothing to worry about, and I don't think people are going to let it stop them.

I totally agree. Ford just announced that the new wave of F-Series trucks will be an aluminum body as well.

 

[gotopless]

So one decade from now, who will have a rig that won't break when it leaves pavement?

 

[Jernik]

I seriously doubt this is going to be a reason for people to dump their Jeeps for Toyota's. Jeeps have been on unibody's in the past, and that's nothing people aren't dealing with already. The only thing is bringing aluminum into the picture. Which IMO is still nothing to worry about, and I don't think people are going to let it stop them. Just like with the XJ's, unibody kits will be made and sold. However, it's going to severely limit the amount about people that will be able to weld these unibody stiffeners onto the frame. Welding aluminum is nothing like welding steel, and shop are going to make a killing on this. Aluminum is nothing that I would worry about. I won't be afraid to run an aluminum frame with stiffeners. Aluminum can be just as strong as steel and more forgiving.

Just my $.02.

You don't understand the Jeep community! The XJ/WJ guys have converted to accepting the unibody, but the hardcore Wrangler crowd will be wailing until they pass out from lack of oxygen! You should have heard all the moaning about the current Wrangler and loss of the I6! They did the same when the YJ morphed to the TJ... and the loss of round headlights and addition of plastic when going from CJ to YJ...

I'm going to have to pop a bag of popcorn then go look over the Jeep forums and watch the drama!

 

[KidVermicious]

So one decade from now, who will have a rig that won't break when it leaves pavement?

Me and my '85. :hello:

 

[gotopless]

Me and my '85. :hello:

Touche. I meant, what manufacturer will have a on-road off-road vehicle still available in the future? Or will all of these US standards keep awesome rigs from our shores?

 

[MStudt]

You don't understand the Jeep community! The XJ/WJ guys have converted to accepting the unibody, but the hardcore Wrangler crowd will be wailing until they pass out from lack of oxygen! You should have heard all the moaning about the current Wrangler and loss of the I6! They did the same when the YJ morphed to the TJ... and the loss of round headlights and addition of plastic when going from CJ to YJ...

I'm going to have to pop a bag of popcorn then go look over the Jeep forums and watch the drama!

I understand the Jeep community very well, so don't get confused with where I came from. I sold my wrangler, and bought a 4runner for $9k. With the left over money from selling my Jeep I was able to buy my lift, wheels, and tires.

XJ's are very capable if built the correct way. Aluminum frames aren't going to slow anybody down. The people that are going to buy the new Jeeps aren't going to be your wheelers, they're going to be your mall crawlers, and people that hit forest roads. People that are going to build Jeeps are going to go for the older one's due to the lack of electrical issues. You can pick up an old YJ for $2k, and have a bad-ass rig for under $5k if you know what you're doing.

The new aluminum uni-body's are going to appeal to the same crowd that buys the JK's. People that want to look cool in a Jeep, and don't intend on doing more than hopping a curb. While some owners with JK do have nice rigs. You can do a lot more for your money with something older, and not have nearly as many headaches.

 

[jrandom]

So, your wife probably doesn't want me to mention that these guys are right here in Salt Lake, huh?

Oh good Christ, that is not something I needed to know! :wow: ...but thanks : bookmarked!

 

[JSparky]

Haven't they already said IFS is a practical certainty and they're considering a fully independent design? I thought I read that somewhere.

The majority of Wranglers Jeep sells are not sold to guys who intend to wheel them hard. Just like 4runners, the majority are sold to guys (and girls) looking for the image. As long as Jeep provides the image, they will make money selling Wranglers, and the hard core guys will learn how to SAS just like Toyota guys have. If I were Jeep, I'd have to be looking hard at the insane popularity of fully independent UTVs and SBSs, and thinking that's where my money is - turn the Wrangler into a crash-tested road legal full size side-by-side.

I recall that too, I think it was from a 4x4 mag editor or something though.. idk I could be wrong. I'm gonna keep high hopes though, if they do it right it could be awesome.. there are plenty of fully independently sprung rigs running king of the hammers so we know it can work.

 

[DannyLlama]

HA HA Love to read these post. I always scan down for the voice of reason....1engineer.

He doesn't need a bigger head :fro:

 

[Plano26]

I am not seeing those changes to Jeep as a negative. It will improve their bottom line. And I don't see it converting Jeep lovers over to Toyota enthusiasts.

1) Jeep is an icon and image. It is very visceral.
2) Nissan converted the Pathfinder from a boxy, truck on frame to unibody, egg-shaped car and sales increased 8-9%.
3) Most (most) Jeep buyers don't know the difference between IFS v. SA or what is a unibody.
4) I drove my wife's JK last night and it drives terrible compared to my 4Runner. But she won't give it up for any Toyota.
5) JK owners see Toyotas as mom mobiles.

If Jeep keeps the visual look and improves the ride and mileage then sales will improve. Off-roaders are such a smaller niche that they will gain much more than they ever lose.

View attachment 132330

I love how your T4R has its "Back" facing the jeep like it can't even look at it!

 

[Orc]

Haven't they already said IFS is a practical certainty and they're considering a fully independent design? I thought I read that somewhere.

The majority of Wranglers Jeep sells are not sold to guys who intend to wheel them hard. Just like 4runners, the majority are sold to guys (and girls) looking for the image. As long as Jeep provides the image, they will make money selling Wranglers, and the hard core guys will learn how to SAS just like Toyota guys have. If I were Jeep, I'd have to be looking hard at the insane popularity of fully independent UTVs and SBSs, and thinking that's where my money is - turn the Wrangler into a crash-tested road legal full size side-by-side.

The jeep isn't as capable as the runner. It can only tow 2000 pounds is much smaller inside and is no where near as good on road. The jeep is no longer a cheap fun second truck for weekend fun.

 

[JayceeP]

The jeep isn't as capable as the runner. It can only tow 2000 pounds is much smaller inside and is no where near as good on road. The jeep is no longer a cheap fun second truck for weekend fun.

A Wrangler can tow 3,500lb.

Also, a stock JK is a tank. My brother and I both owned one. I didn't go too crazy, but he literally beat the crap out of his Unlimited Sahara. That thing would go anywhere and he pushed it, hard. The difference, as we all know, is higher probability of mechanical issues, but that doesn't mean the Jeep isn't as capable.

Anyway, I'm surprised that people actually approved of a unibody design on a Wrangler. Never thought I'd read those comments here!

 

[LandCruiser]

I left a Jeep for a 4runner.

Lifts, lockers, and regearing are very comparable in pricing to be honest. With every lift, lock, and gear you have multiple choices. Both can be lifted, locked, and geared on the cheap or with more investment. When you add in dumping a D35 and D30 the cost would actually be greater than lifting a 4runner.

With Jeep you can go cheap or right, and cheap will mostly work.

With Toyota you can go cheap or right, and cheap WON'T work.

 

[Orc]

The two door can only handle 2000

 

[MStudt]

With Jeep you can go cheap or right, and cheap will mostly work.

With Toyota you can go cheap or right, and cheap WON'T work.

Wrong.

People have different ideas on cheap and right. To some cheap is right, and to other it's not. You're argument about this is not going to pan out for you. I could build a yj on the cheap and be just as capable as someone building a yj on Alcan's. Depends on how much you want to fabricate. I could also build a 3rd Gen 4runner on budget and compete with a $1600 lift for Toytec or anywhere else. Everything is build-able on the cheap if you know what you're doing and where you're looking. This will be an argument with no end, and no limits. So, let's just let it go at that.

 

[CodedSilence]

Aftermarket support for Jeep's solid axle is one of the best things about them. If Jeep was designed with IFS and capable of the same stock wheel travel, then it'll become more expensive to lift with limited gain. I think the cost will hurt its appeal. And your "hardcore" off-roader will stick with the pre IFS models. Sure Jeep hit a home run with the JK of attracting Jeep newbies (who can't figure out the Jeep wave) and maybe they'd stay around for IFS but they'll lose their enthusiasts.

 

[JayceeP]

The two door can only handle 2000

If you are comparing to the 4Runner, wouldn't the 4 door be a fairer comparison?

 

[3wbdriver]

There hasn't been a real Jeep made since 1983. The CJ-7 with it's automatic transmission began the downfall 5 or 6 years before that. Even my 78 CJ-5 had a POS Mexican made transmission in it that was lucky to go 30,000 miles before it self destructed.....